|
|
(66 intermediate revisions by the same user not shown) |
Line 1: |
Line 1: |
| {{perspectives}} | | {{perspectives}} |
| | | {{core term}} |
| ==Motivation== | | ==Motivation== |
|
| |
|
Line 27: |
Line 27: |
|
| |
|
| This interpretation is sometimes termed the "two finger test" where one finger is used to follow the graph for <math>x</math> slightly less than <math>c</math> and the other finger is used to follow the graph for <math>x</math> slightly greater than <math>c</math>. | | This interpretation is sometimes termed the "two finger test" where one finger is used to follow the graph for <math>x</math> slightly less than <math>c</math> and the other finger is used to follow the graph for <math>x</math> slightly greater than <math>c</math>. |
| | |
| | The interpretation is problematic in that it is not really a definition, and fails to have computational utility for wildly oscillatory functions or functions with other forms of weird behavior. |
|
| |
|
| ===Two key ideas=== | | ===Two key ideas=== |
Line 46: |
Line 48: |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:24.619,0:00:28.099 | | 0:00:24.619,0:00:28.099 |
| Epsilon-delta definition. That was just an intuitive idea,
| | epsilon-delta definition. This is just an intuitive idea, |
| and a few somewhat | | and a few somewhat |
|
| |
|
Line 235: |
Line 237: |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:27.449,0:04:34.449 | | 0:04:27.449,0:04:34.449 |
| graph. y is f(x). When x is to the initial | | graph. y is f(x). When x is to the immediate |
| left of c, the value, y | | left of c, the value, y |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:35.749,0:04:42.749 | | 0:04:35.749,0:04:42.749 |
| value, the y approach f(x) value is ... are | | value, the y equals f(x) value is ... are |
| these values, so this or | | these values, so this or |
|
| |
|
Line 299: |
Line 301: |
| 0:06:25.900,0:06:28.259 | | 0:06:25.900,0:06:28.259 |
| concept of limit is usually a concept of two | | concept of limit is usually a concept of two |
| sides of limit, which
| | sided limit, which |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:28.259,0:06:33.419 | | 0:06:28.259,0:06:33.419 |
Line 334: |
Line 336: |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:03.499,0:07:07.749 | | 0:07:03.499,0:07:07.749 |
| sort of that. For the left-hand limit, you | | sort of that: for the left-hand limit, you |
| basically sort of follow | | basically sort of follow |
|
| |
|
Line 346: |
Line 348: |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:15.789,0:07:21.129 | | 0:07:15.789,0:07:21.129 |
| the graph on the right and see where they're | | the graph on the right and see where we're |
| headed to, and add the y | | headed to, and get the y |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:21.129,0:07:22.240 | | 0:07:21.129,0:07:22.240 |
Line 365: |
Line 367: |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:52.610,0:07:55.889 | | 0:07:52.610,0:07:55.889 |
| values are different. You could also have
| | value is different. You could also have |
| a situation where the value | | a situation where the value |
|
| |
|
Line 373: |
Line 375: |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:00.460,0:08:03.139 | | 0:08:00.460,0:08:03.139 |
| the limits still exist because the left-hand | | the limit still exists because the left-hand |
| limit and right-hand | | limit and right-hand |
|
| |
|
Line 405: |
Line 407: |
| 0:08:33.640,0:08:38.270 | | 0:08:33.640,0:08:38.270 |
| fingers can meet each other, then the place | | fingers can meet each other, then the place |
| where they meet, the Y | | where they meet, the y |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:38.270,0:08:41.870 | | 0:08:38.270,0:08:41.870 |
Line 424: |
Line 426: |
| 0:08:53.509,0:08:59.819 | | 0:08:53.509,0:08:59.819 |
| This, hopefully, you have seen in great detail | | This, hopefully, you have seen in great detail |
| where you've done
| | when you've done |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:59.819,0:09:05.779 | | 0:08:59.819,0:09:05.779 |
Line 485: |
Line 487: |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:18.220,0:10:21.899 | | 0:10:18.220,0:10:21.899 |
| have to develop a pure cut concept of limit | | have to develop a clear cut concept of limit |
| to be able to answer this | | to be able to answer this |
|
| |
|
Line 509: |
Line 511: |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:52.660,0:10:55.139 | | 0:10:52.660,0:10:55.139 |
| doesn't [inaudible 00:10:36] we actually have | | doesn't exist; we actually have |
| to try to make a picture | | to try to make a picture |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:55.139,0:10:57.660 | | 0:10:55.139,0:10:57.660 |
| of this and try to understand what the limit | | of this and try to understand what the limit |
| is here. | | is going to be. |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:57.660,0:11:04.660 | | 0:10:57.660,0:11:04.660 |
Line 629: |
Line 631: |
| 0:14:18.050,0:14:21.579 | | 0:14:18.050,0:14:21.579 |
| this, this ... you're sort of getting close | | this, this ... you're sort of getting close |
| to here but still not quite | | to zero but still not quite |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:21.579,0:14:28.579 | | 0:14:21.579,0:14:28.579 |
Line 648: |
Line 650: |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:43.249,0:14:49.329 | | 0:14:43.249,0:14:49.329 |
| One kind of logic is that the other limit | | One kind of logic is that, yeah, the limit |
| is zero? Why? Well, it's | | is zero? Why? Well, it's |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:49.329,0:14:52.949 | | 0:14:49.329,0:14:52.949 |
| kind of balance around here. It's a bit above | | kind of balanced around zero, right? It's a bit |
| and below, and it keeps | | above and below, and it keeps |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:52.949,0:14:59.949 | | 0:14:52.949,0:14:59.949 |
Line 668: |
Line 670: |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:12.459,0:15:17.449 | | 0:15:12.459,0:15:17.449 |
| If you think of limit as something that's | | If you think of limit as something it's |
| approaching, then as x | | approaching, then as x |
|
| |
|
Line 691: |
Line 693: |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:47.269,0:15:50.300 | | 0:15:47.269,0:15:50.300 |
| oscillating with the minus 1 and 1. However, | | oscillating within [-1,1]. However |
| smaller interval you
| | small an interval you |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:50.300,0:15:54.540 | | 0:15:50.300,0:15:54.540 |
Line 901: |
Line 903: |
|
| |
|
| 0:20:32.040,0:20:35.000 | | 0:20:32.040,0:20:35.000 |
| behavior sort of at this time that point or | | behavior, sort of at that point or |
| farther away than that | | farther away than that |
|
| |
|
Line 910: |
Line 912: |
| 0:20:42.820,0:20:46.660 | | 0:20:42.820,0:20:46.660 |
| other key idea here. Actually I did these | | other key idea here. Actually I did these |
| in [inaudible 00:20:30]. | | in reverse order. |
|
| |
|
| 0:20:46.660,0:20:52.060 | | 0:20:46.660,0:20:52.060 |
| That's how it is coming, actually, but I'll | | That's how it was coming naturally, but I'll |
| just say it again. | | just say it again. |
|
| |
|
Line 941: |
Line 943: |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:19.790,0:21:26.790 | | 0:21:19.790,0:21:26.790 |
| tracked near the point for the limit notion
| | trapped near the point for the limit notion |
| to be true. This type of | | to be true. This type of |
|
| |
|
Line 961: |
Line 963: |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:48.550,0:21:54.630 | | 0:21:48.550,0:21:54.630 |
| we'll see Epsilon definition, we'll do a bit | | we'll see the epsilon delta definition, we'll do a bit |
| of formalism to that, and | | of formalism to that, and |
|
| |
|
Line 969: |
Line 971: |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:00.640,0:22:01.870 | | 0:22:00.640,0:22:01.870 |
| understanding. | | understanding.</toggledisplay> |
| | |
| | '''Checkpoint questions''': |
|
| |
|
| </toggledisplay> | | * To figure out the limit of a function at <math>2</math>, does the value of the function at <math>2.1</math> matter? Does the value of the function at <math>2.01</math> matter? <math>2.001</math>? How close is close enough? |
| | * What is the limit <math>\lim_{x \to 0} \sin(1/x)</math>? What's the intuitive idea behind the reasoning? More formal versions of this reasoning will be introduced after we have seen the <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> definition. |
|
| |
|
| ==Definition for finite limit for function of one variable== | | ==Definition for finite limit for function of one variable== |
Line 983: |
Line 988: |
| <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> | | <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> |
|
| |
|
| if the following holds (the single sentence is broken down into multiple points to make it clearer): | | if the following holds: |
|
| |
|
| * For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> (the symbol <math>\varepsilon</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon")
| | {{quotation|For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math>, we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math>.}} |
| * there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that (the symbol <math>\delta</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta")
| | |
| * for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (explicitly, <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c, c+ \delta) = (c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math>),
| | The definition is broken down into its four clauses below: |
| * we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (explicitly, <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>).
| | |
| | {| class="sortable" border="1" |
| | ! Clause !! Interval description !! Symbol explanations |
| | |- |
| | | For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || <math>\varepsilon \in (0,\infty)</math> || The symbol <math>\varepsilon</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon".<br>Although the definition customarily uses the letter <math>\varepsilon</math>, it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload. |
| | |- |
| | | there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || <math>\delta \in (0,\infty)</math> || The symbol <math>\delta</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta"<br>Although the definition customarily uses the letter <math>\varepsilon</math>, it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload. |
| | |- |
| | | for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> || <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c, c+ \delta) = (c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math> || The symbol <math>| \ \ |</math> stands for the [[absolute value function]].<br><math>\in</math> stands for "is in the set" so the statements should be read as saying that <math>x</math> is in the set described in the two equivalent ways.<br><math>\cup</math> stands for the union, so the statement that <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c, c+ \delta)</math> should be parsed as saying that <math>x \in (c - \delta,c)</math> ''or'' <math>x \in (c, c + \delta)</math><br><math>\setminus</math> stands for set difference, so the statement <math>x \in (c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math> can be parsed as saying that <math>x</math> could be any value in <math>(c - \delta, c + \delta)</math> '''except''' <math>c</math>. The point <math>c</math> is excluded because we do not want the value of <math>f</math> at <math>c</math> to affect the limit notion. |
| | |- |
| | | we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> || <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> || The symbol <math>| \ \ |</math> stands for the [[absolute value function]].<br><math>\in</math> stands for "is in the set" so the statement should be read as saying that <math>f(x)</math> is in the set <math>(L - \varepsilon, L + \varepsilon)</math>. |
| | |} |
|
| |
|
| The '''limit''' (also called the '''two-sided limit''') <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x)</math> is defined as a value <math>L \in \R</math> such that <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>. By the [[uniqueness theorem for limits]], there is at most one value of <math>L \in \R</math> for which <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>. Hence, it makes sense to talk of ''the'' limit when it exists. | | The '''limit''' (also called the '''two-sided limit''') <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x)</math> is defined as a value <math>L \in \R</math> such that <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>. By the [[uniqueness theorem for limits]], there is at most one value of <math>L \in \R</math> for which <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>. Hence, it makes sense to talk of ''the'' limit when it exists. |
Line 1,192: |
Line 1,208: |
| L that's called the limit.</toggledisplay> | | L that's called the limit.</toggledisplay> |
|
| |
|
| ''Note'': Although the definition customarily uses the letters <math>\varepsilon</math> and <math>\delta</math>, any other letters can be used, as long as these letters are different from each other and from the letters already in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload. | | '''Checkpoint questions''': |
| | |
| | * In order to make sense of <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> where must the function <math>f</math> be defined? Must <math>f</math> be defined ''at'' <math>c</math>? If <math>f(c)</math> exists, what can we say about its value? |
| | * What's the formal definition of limit, i.e., what does <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> mean? |
| | * How would you write the formal definition of limit using intervals rather than absolute value inequalities to describe where <math>x</math> and <math>f(x)</math> should be? |
| | * Why is there a "<math>0 < </math>" in the inequality <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> in the <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> definition? Why doesn't a <math>0 < </math> appear in the <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> part of the definition? |
| | * In order to be able to talk of ''the'' limit <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x)</math>, what additional fact do we need beyond the definition of what <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> means? |
|
| |
|
| ===Left hand limit=== | | ===Left-hand limit=== |
|
| |
|
| Suppose <math>f</math> is a [[function]] of one variable and <math>c \in \R</math> is a point such that <math>f</math> is defined on the immediate left of <math>c</math> (note that <math>f</math> may or may not be defined at <math>c</math>). In other words, there exists some value <math>t > 0</math> such that <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c-t,c)</math>. | | Suppose <math>f</math> is a [[function]] of one variable and <math>c \in \R</math> is a point such that <math>f</math> is defined on the immediate left of <math>c</math> (note that <math>f</math> may or may not be defined at <math>c</math>). In other words, there exists some value <math>t > 0</math> such that <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c-t,c)</math>. |
Line 1,202: |
Line 1,224: |
| <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math> | | <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math> |
|
| |
|
| if the following holds (the single sentence is broken down into multiple points to make it clearer): | | if the following holds: |
| | |
| | {{quotation|For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < c - x < \delta</math>, we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math>.}} |
| | |
| | The definition is broken down into its four clauses below: |
|
| |
|
| * For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>
| | {| class="sortable" border="1" |
| * there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that
| | ! Clause !! Interval description !! Symbol explanations |
| * for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < c - x < \delta</math> (explicitly, <math>x \in (c - \delta,c)</math>),
| | |- |
| * we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (explicitly, <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>.
| | | For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || <math>\varepsilon \in (0,\infty)</math> || The symbol <math>\varepsilon</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon".<br>Although the definition customarily uses the letter <math>\varepsilon</math>, it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload. |
| | |- |
| | | there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || <math>\delta \in (0,\infty)</math> || The symbol <math>\delta</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta"<br>Although the definition customarily uses the letter <math>\varepsilon</math>, it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload. |
| | |- |
| | | for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < c - x < \delta</math> || <math>x \in (c - \delta,c)</math> || The symbol <math>| \ \ |</math> stands for the [[absolute value function]].<br><math>\in</math> stands for "is in the set" so the statements should be read as saying that <math>x</math> is in the set <math>(c - \delta,c)</math> describing the immediate <math>\delta</math>-left of <math>c</math>. |
| | |- |
| | | we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> || <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> || The symbol <math>| \ \ |</math> stands for the [[absolute value function]].<br><math>\in</math> stands for "is in the set" so the statement should be read as saying that <math>f(x)</math> is in the set <math>(L - \varepsilon, L + \varepsilon)</math>. |
| | |} |
|
| |
|
| The '''left hand limit''' (acronym '''LHL''') <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x)</math> is defined as a value <math>L \in \R</math> such that <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math>. By the [[uniqueness theorem for limits]] (one-sided version), there is at most one value of <math>L \in \R</math> for which <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math>. Hence, it makes sense to talk of ''the'' left hand limit when it exists. | | The '''left-hand limit''' (acronym '''LHL''') <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x)</math> is defined as a value <math>L \in \R</math> such that <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math>. By the [[uniqueness theorem for limits]] (one-sided version), there is at most one value of <math>L \in \R</math> for which <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math>. Hence, it makes sense to talk of ''the'' left hand limit when it exists. |
|
| |
|
| ===Right hand limit=== | | ===Right-hand limit=== |
|
| |
|
| Suppose <math>f</math> is a [[function]] of one variable and <math>c \in \R</math> is a point such that <math>f</math> is defined on the immediate right of <math>c</math> (note that <math>f</math> may or may not be defined at <math>c</math>). In other words, there exists some value <math>t > 0</math> such that <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c,c+t)</math>. | | Suppose <math>f</math> is a [[function]] of one variable and <math>c \in \R</math> is a point such that <math>f</math> is defined on the immediate right of <math>c</math> (note that <math>f</math> may or may not be defined at <math>c</math>). In other words, there exists some value <math>t > 0</math> such that <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c,c+t)</math>. |
Line 1,219: |
Line 1,252: |
| <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</math> | | <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</math> |
|
| |
|
| if the following holds (the single sentence is broken down into multiple points to make it clearer): | | if the following holds: |
| | |
| | {{quotation|For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < x - c < \delta</math>, we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math>.}} |
| | |
| | The definition is broken down into its four clauses below: |
| | |
| | {| class="sortable" border="1" |
| | ! Clause !! Interval description !! Symbol explanations |
| | |- |
| | | For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || <math>\varepsilon \in (0,\infty)</math> || The symbol <math>\varepsilon</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon".<br>Although the definition customarily uses the letter <math>\varepsilon</math>, it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload. |
| | |- |
| | | there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || <math>\delta \in (0,\infty)</math> || The symbol <math>\delta</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta"<br>Although the definition customarily uses the letter <math>\varepsilon</math>, it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload. |
| | |- |
| | | for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < x - c < \delta</math> || <math>x \in (c,c + \delta)</math> || The symbol <math>| \ \ |</math> stands for the [[absolute value function]].<br><math>\in</math> stands for "is in the set" so the statements should be read as saying that <math>x</math> is in the set <math>(c,c + \delta)</math> describing the immediate <math>\delta</math>-right of <math>c</math>. |
| | |- |
| | | we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> || <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> || The symbol <math>| \ \ |</math> stands for the [[absolute value function]].<br><math>\in</math> stands for "is in the set" so the statement should be read as saying that <math>f(x)</math> is in the set <math>(L - \varepsilon, L + \varepsilon)</math>. |
| | |} |
|
| |
|
| * For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>
| | The '''right-hand limit''' (acronym '''RHL''') <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x)</math> is defined as a value <math>L \in \R</math> such that <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</math>. By the [[uniqueness theorem for limits]] (one-sided version), there is at most one value of <math>L \in \R</math> for which <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</matH>. Hence, it makes sense to talk of ''the'' right hand limit when it exists. |
| * there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that
| | |
| * for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < x - c < \delta</math> (explicitly, <math>x \in (c,c + \delta)</math>),
| | ===Side-by-side comparison of the definitions=== |
| * we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (explicitly, <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>.
| |
|
| |
|
| The '''right hand limit''' (acronym '''RHL''') <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x)</math> is defined as a value <math>L \in \R</math> such that <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</math>. By the [[uniqueness theorem for limits]] (one-sided version), there is at most one value of <math>L \in \R</math> for which <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</matH>. Hence, it makes sense to talk of ''the'' right hand limit when it exists.
| | {| class="sortable" border="1" |
| | ! Clause for two-sided limit <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> !! Clause for left hand limit <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math> !! Clause for right hand limit <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</math>!! Comments |
| | |- |
| | | For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || identical so far |
| | |- |
| | | there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || still identical |
| | |- |
| | | for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math>, i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math> || for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < c - x < \delta</math>, i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c)</math> || for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < x - c < \delta</math>, i.e., <math>x \in (c,c + \delta)</math> || this is the part that differs, in so far as it is the direction of domain approach that differs between the definitions. |
| | |- |
| | | we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math>, i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> || we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math>, i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> || we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math>, i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> || this part is again identical. Note that the left versus right is only about the direction of approach in the domain, not about the direction of approach of the function value. |
| | |} |
|
| |
|
| <center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=qBjqc78KGx0}}</center> | | <center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=qBjqc78KGx0}}</center> |
Line 1,619: |
Line 1,677: |
| 0:11:07.000,0:11:09.000 | | 0:11:07.000,0:11:09.000 |
| Okay? [END!]</toggledisplay> | | Okay? [END!]</toggledisplay> |
| | |
| | '''Checkpoint questions''': |
| | |
| | * In order to make sense of <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math>, where must the function <math>f</math> be defined? Must <math>f</math> be defined ''at'' <math>c</math>? If <math>f(c)</math> exists, what can we say about its value? |
| | * The definitions of left hand limit, right hand limit and ordinary (two-sided) limit are pretty similar. There is only one clause that differs across the three definitions. What clause is this, and how does it differ across the definitions? Explain both in inequality notation and in interval notation. |
| | * Why should we be careful when dealing with one-sided limits in the context of function compositions? |
|
| |
|
| ===Relation between the limit notions=== | | ===Relation between the limit notions=== |
|
| |
|
| The two-sided limit exists if and only if (both the left hand limit and right hand limit exist and they are equal to each other). | | The two-sided limit exists if and only if (both the left hand limit and right hand limit exist) '''and''' (they are equal to each other). |
| | |
| | Explicitly, <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x)</math> exists if '''all three''' of these conditions hold: |
| | |
| | * <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x)</math> exists. |
| | * <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x)</math> exists. |
| | * <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = \lim_{x \to c^+} f(x)</math>. |
| | |
| | Moreover, in the event that both one-sided limits exist and are equal, the two-sided limit is equal to both of them. |
| | |
| | Further, a particular value of <math>\delta > 0</math> works for a particular value of <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> in the two-sided limit definition if and only if it works in both the left hand limit definition and the right hand limit definition. |
|
| |
|
| ==Definition of finite limit for function of one variable in terms of a game== | | ==Definition of finite limit for function of one variable in terms of a game== |
Line 1,634: |
Line 1,708: |
| <math>\!\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> | | <math>\!\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> |
|
| |
|
| Note that there is one trivial sense in which the above statement can be false, or rather, meaningless, namely, that <math>f</math> is not defined on the immediate left or immediate right of <math>c</math>. In that case, the limit statement above is false, but moreover, it is meaningless to even consider the notion of limit. | | Note that there is one trivial sense in which the above statement can be false, or rather, meaningless, namely, that <math>f</math> is not defined on the immediate left or immediate right of <math>c</math>. In that case, the limit statement above is false, but moreover, it is meaningless to even consider the notion of limit. We therefore omit this sense from consideration and consider instead only the situation where <math>f</math> is defined on the immediate left and immediate right of <math>c</math>. |
|
| |
|
| The game is between two players, a '''Prover''' whose goal is to prove that the limit statement is true, and a '''Skeptic''' (also called a '''Verifier''' or sometimes a '''Disprover''') whose goal is to show that the statement is false. The game has three moves: | | The game is between two players, a '''Prover''' whose goal is to prove that the limit statement is true, and a '''Skeptic''' (also called a '''Verifier''' or sometimes a '''Disprover''') whose goal is to show that the statement is false. The game has three moves: |
|
| |
|
| # First, the skeptic chooses <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, or equivalently, chooses the target interval <math>(L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>. | | # First, the skeptic chooses <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, or equivalently, chooses the target interval <math>(L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> in which the skeptic is challenging the prover to ''trap'' the function. |
| # Then, the prover chooses <math>\delta > 0</math>, or equivalently, chooses the interval <math>(c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math>. | | # Then, the prover chooses <math>\delta > 0</math>, or equivalently, chooses the interval <math>(c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math>. |
| # Then, the skeptic chooses a value <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math>, or equivalently, <math>x \in (c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math>, which is the same as <math>(c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>. | | # Then, the skeptic chooses a value <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math>, or equivalently, <math>x \in (c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math>, which is the same as <math>(c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>. |
|
| |
|
| Now, if <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>), the prover wins. Otherwise, the skeptic wins (see the subtlety about the domain of definition issue below the picture). | | Now, if <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>), the prover wins. Otherwise, the skeptic wins. |
|
| |
|
| We say that the limit statement | | We say that the limit statement |
Line 1,648: |
Line 1,722: |
| <math>\!\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> | | <math>\!\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> |
|
| |
|
| is '''true''' if the prover has a winning strategy for this game. The ''winning strategy'' for the prover basically constitutes a strategy to choose an appropriate <math>\delta</math> in terms of the <matH>\varepsilon</math> chosen by the skeptic. Thus, it is an expression of <math>\delta</math> as a function of <math>\varepsilon</math>. | | is '''true''' if the prover has a '''winning strategy''' for this game. The ''winning strategy'' for the prover basically constitutes a strategy to choose an appropriate <math>\delta</math> in terms of the <math>\varepsilon</math> chosen by the skeptic. Thus, it is an expression of <math>\delta</math> as a function of <math>\varepsilon</math>. Verbally, the goal of the prover is to choose a value of <math>\delta</math> so that when the input is restricted to being within <math>\delta</math> distance of <math>c</math>, the output is '''trapped''' to within <math>\varepsilon</math> distance of the claimed limit <math>L</math>. |
|
| |
|
| We say that the limit statement | | We say that the limit statement |
Line 1,656: |
Line 1,730: |
| is '''false''' if the skeptic has a winning strategy for this game. The '''winning strategy''' for the skeptic involves a choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>, ''and'' a strategy that chooses a value of <math>x</math> (constrained in the specified interval) based on the prover's choice of <math>\delta</math>. | | is '''false''' if the skeptic has a winning strategy for this game. The '''winning strategy''' for the skeptic involves a choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>, ''and'' a strategy that chooses a value of <math>x</math> (constrained in the specified interval) based on the prover's choice of <math>\delta</math>. |
|
| |
|
| [[File:Epsilondeltagamepicture.png|1000px]] | | Let's review the definition in conjunction with the game along with a deeper semantic understanding of the steps: |
| | | |
| '''Slight subtlety regarding domain of definition''': The domain of definition issue leads to a couple of minor subtleties: | | {| class="sortable" border="1" |
| | ! Step no. !! Clause of definition !! Who moves? !! What is chosen? !! Constraints on the choice !! Comment |
| | |- |
| | | 1 || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || Skeptic || <math>\varepsilon</math> || Must be positive || The "for every" corresponds to the idea that the move is made by the side that does ''not'' have a winning strategy, because we want to argue that the side that ''does'' have a winning strategy can win ''no matter what''. |
| | |- |
| | | 2 || there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || Prover || <math>\delta</math> || Must be positive || The "there exists" corresponds to the idea that the move is made by the side that has a winning strategy, because that side gets to choose a favorable value of the variable (in this case <math>\delta</math>). |
| | |- |
| | | 3 || for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math>, || Skeptic || <math>x</math> || Must be within the interval <math>(c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math> || The "for all" corresponds to the idea that the move is made by the side that does ''not'' have a winning strategy, because we want to argue that the side that ''does'' have a winning strategy can win ''no matter what''. |
| | |- |
| | | 4 || we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> || Neither; it's time for the judge to decide || -- || If <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> (the condition that we desire) the prover wins. Else, the skeptic wins. || |
| | |} |
| | |
| | [[File:Epsilondeltagamepicture.png|1000px]] |
| | |
| | '''Slight subtlety regarding domain of definition''': <toggledisplay>The domain of definition issue leads to a couple of minor subtleties: |
|
| |
|
| * A priori, it is possible that the <math>x</math> chosen by the skeptic is outside the domain of <math>f</math>, so it does not make sense to evaluate <math>f(x)</math>. In the definition given above, this would lead to the game being won by the skeptic. In particular, if <math>f</math> is not defined on the immediate left or right of <math>c</math>, the skeptic can always win by picking <math>x</math> outside the domain. | | * A priori, it is possible that the <math>x</math> chosen by the skeptic is outside the domain of <math>f</math>, so it does not make sense to evaluate <math>f(x)</math>. In the definition given above, this would lead to the game being won by the skeptic. In particular, if <math>f</math> is not defined on the immediate left or right of <math>c</math>, the skeptic can always win by picking <math>x</math> outside the domain. |
Line 1,664: |
Line 1,752: |
| ** We could require (as part of the game rules) that the prover pick <math>\delta</math> such that <math>(c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \} \subseteq \operatorname{dom} f</math>. This pre-empts the problem of picking <math>x</math>-values outside the domain. | | ** We could require (as part of the game rules) that the prover pick <math>\delta</math> such that <math>(c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \} \subseteq \operatorname{dom} f</math>. This pre-empts the problem of picking <math>x</math>-values outside the domain. |
| ** We could require (as part of the game rules) that the skeptic pick <math>x</math> ''in'' the domain, i.e., pick <math>x</math> with <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> and <math>x \in \operatorname{dom} f</math>. | | ** We could require (as part of the game rules) that the skeptic pick <math>x</math> ''in'' the domain, i.e., pick <math>x</math> with <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> and <math>x \in \operatorname{dom} f</math>. |
| ** We could alter the rule so that if the skeptic picks <math>x</math> outside the domain, the prover wins (instead of the skeptic winning). | | ** We could alter the rule so that if the skeptic picks <math>x</math> outside the domain, the prover wins (instead of the skeptic winning).</toggledisplay> |
|
| |
|
| <center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=Kh253PUghFk}}</center> | | <center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=Kh253PUghFk}}</center> |
Line 2,039: |
Line 2,127: |
| I explain the mathematical symbols.</toggledisplay> | | I explain the mathematical symbols.</toggledisplay> |
|
| |
|
| | ===Negation of limit statement and non-existence of limit=== |
| | |
| | We now consider the explicit description of the definition for the case that the skeptic has a winning strategy for the limit game for <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>, i.e., for the limit statement being false. |
| | |
| | In words, the definition is: |
| | |
| | {{quotation|There exists <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> such that for every <math>\delta > 0</math>, there exists <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> and <math>|f(x) - L| \ge \varepsilon</math>.}} |
| | |
| | Let's review the definition in conjunction with the game along with a deeper semantic understanding of the steps: |
| | |
| | {| class="sortable" border="1" |
| | ! Step no. !! Clause of definition for original limit statement (i.e., prover has a winning strategy) !! Clause of definition for skeptic having a winning strategy !! Who moves? !! What is chosen? !! Constraints on the choice !! Comment |
| | |- |
| | | 1 || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || There exists <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> such that || Skeptic || <math>\varepsilon</math> || Must be positive || Whether we use "for every" or "there exists" depends on who we're rooting for. |
| | |- |
| | | 2 || there exists <math>\delta > 0</matH> such that || for every <math>\delta > 0</math>, || Prover || <math>\delta</math> || Must be positive || Whether we use "for every" or "there exists" depends on who we're rooting for. |
| | |- |
| | | 3 || for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math>, || there exists <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> and || Skeptic || <math>x</math> || Must be within the interval <math>(c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math> || Whether we use "for every" or "there exists" depends on who we're rooting for. |
| | |- |
| | | 4 || we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> || <math>|f(x) - L| \ge \varepsilon</math>. || Neither; it's time for the judge to decide || -- || If <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>, the prover wins. Else, the skeptic wins. || The conditions are negatives of one another. |
| | |} |
| <center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=N0U8Y11nlPk}}</center> | | <center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=N0U8Y11nlPk}}</center> |
|
| |
|
Line 2,353: |
Line 2,462: |
|
| |
|
| # <math>f</math> is not ''defined'' around <math>c</math>, i.e., there is no <math>t > 0</math> for which <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c - t, c + t) \setminus \{ c \}</math>. In this case, it does not even make sense to try taking a limit. | | # <math>f</math> is not ''defined'' around <math>c</math>, i.e., there is no <math>t > 0</math> for which <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c - t, c + t) \setminus \{ c \}</math>. In this case, it does not even make sense to try taking a limit. |
| # <math>f</math> is defined around <math>c</math>, around <math>c</math>, i.e., there is <math>t > 0</math> for which <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c - t, c + t) \setminus \{ c \}</math>. So, it does make sense to try taking a limit. However, the limit still does not exist. | | # <math>f</math> is defined around <math>c</math>, except possibly at <math>c</math>, i.e., there is <math>t > 0</math> for which <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c - t, c + t) \setminus \{ c \}</math>. So, it does make sense to try taking a limit. However, the limit still does not exist. |
|
| |
|
| The formulation of the latter case is as follows: | | The formulation of the latter case is as follows: |
Line 2,366: |
Line 2,475: |
|
| |
|
| does not exist. The skeptic's winning strategy is as follows: regardless of the <math>L</math> chosen by the prover, pick a fixed <math>\varepsilon < 1</math> (independent of <math>L</math>, so <math>\varepsilon</math> can be decided in advance of the game -- note that the skeptic could even pick <math>\varepsilon = 1</math> and the strategy would still work). After the prover has chosen a value <math>\delta</math>, find a value <math>x \in (0 - \delta,0 + \delta) \setminus \{ 0 \}</math> such that the <math>\sin(1/x)</math> function value lies outside <math>(L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>. This is possible because the interval <math>(L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> has width <math>2 \varepsilon</math>, hence cannot cover the entire interval <math>[-1,1]</math>, which has width 2. However, the range of the <math>\sin(1/x)</math> function on <math>(0 - \delta,0 + \delta) \setminus \{ 0 \}</math> is all of <math>[-1,1]</math>. | | does not exist. The skeptic's winning strategy is as follows: regardless of the <math>L</math> chosen by the prover, pick a fixed <math>\varepsilon < 1</math> (independent of <math>L</math>, so <math>\varepsilon</math> can be decided in advance of the game -- note that the skeptic could even pick <math>\varepsilon = 1</math> and the strategy would still work). After the prover has chosen a value <math>\delta</math>, find a value <math>x \in (0 - \delta,0 + \delta) \setminus \{ 0 \}</math> such that the <math>\sin(1/x)</math> function value lies outside <math>(L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>. This is possible because the interval <math>(L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> has width <math>2 \varepsilon</math>, hence cannot cover the entire interval <math>[-1,1]</math>, which has width 2. However, the range of the <math>\sin(1/x)</math> function on <math>(0 - \delta,0 + \delta) \setminus \{ 0 \}</math> is all of <math>[-1,1]</math>. |
| | |
| | {{quotation|Crucially, the inability of the prover to trap the function value close to any point as <math>x \to 0</math> is the reason the limit fails to exist.}} |
|
| |
|
| [[File:Sin1byxlimitat0.png|800px]] | | [[File:Sin1byxlimitat0.png|800px]] |
Line 2,374: |
Line 2,485: |
|
| |
|
| Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay> | | Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay> |
| 0:00:15.500,0:00:19.140 | | 0:00:31.170,0:00:38.170 |
| Vipul: Okay. This talk is going to be about | | Vipul: Ok, so this talk is going to be about |
| certain misconceptions | | why under certain circumstances limits don't exist |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:19.140,0:00:22.440 | | 0:00:39.800,0:00:46.800 |
| that people have regarding limits and these
| | We are going to take this example of a function |
| are misconceptions that
| | which is defined like this: sin of one over x |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:22.440,0:00:25.840 | | 0:00:47.699,0:00:51.360 |
| people generally acquire after...
| | Obviously, that definition doesn't work |
| | when x equals zero. |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:25.840,0:00:29.180 | | 0:00:51.360,0:00:57.260 |
| These are not the misconceptions that
| | So this is a function defined only for all non-zero |
| people have before studying limits,
| | reals. |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:29.180,0:00:32.730 | | 0:00:57.260,0:01:01.050 |
| these are misconceptions you might have after
| | The goal is to figure out what the limit as |
| studying limits,
| | x approaches 0 of f(x) is. |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:32.730,0:00:35.059 | | 0:01:01.050,0:01:06.630 |
| after studying the epsilon delta definition.
| | Here is a graph of the function. This is a |
| | y axis, and x axis. |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:35.059,0:00:38.550 | | 0:01:06.630,0:01:08.490 |
| I'm going to describe these misconceptions
| | The function looks like this. |
| in terms of the limit game,
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:38.550,0:00:41.900 | | 0:01:08.490,0:01:10.680 |
| the prover skeptic game of the limit. Though
| | It is oscillatory. |
| the misconceptions
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:41.900,0:00:45.850 | | 0:01:10.680,0:01:16.270 |
| themselves can be, sort of, don't depend
| | As you approach zero it oscillates more, faster |
| on the understanding of the
| | and faster. |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:45.850,0:00:49.059 | | 0:01:16.270,0:01:19.070 |
| game but to understand exactly what's
| | What are the upper and lower limits of oscillation? |
| happening, it's better to think
| | |
| | 0:01:19.070,0:01:25.580 |
| | Actually all these things should be the same |
| | height. |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:49.059,0:00:51.010 | | 0:01:25.580,0:01:29.760 |
| of it in terms of the game.
| | My drawing wasn't good, but, it should all |
| | be the same height, above and below. |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:51.010,0:00:55.370 | | 0:01:29.760,0:01:31.290 |
| First recall the definition. So limit as x
| | What are these upper and lower limits? [ANSWER!] |
| approaches c of f(x) is a
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:55.370,0:01:01.629 | | 0:01:31.290,0:01:32.790 |
| number L; so c and L are both numbers, real
| | Rui: 1 and -1. |
| numbers. f is a function,
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:01.629,0:01:06.380 | | 0:01:32.790,0:01:39.790 |
| x is approaching c. And we said this is true
| | Vipul: So the lower limit is negative one |
| if the following -- for
| | and the upper limit is one. Ok, good. |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:06.380,0:01:10.180 | | 0:01:39.829,0:01:46.829 |
| every epsilon greater than zero, there exists
| | So what does it mean, what is the limit at |
| a delta greater than
| | zero for this function? [ANSWER!] |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:10.180,0:01:14.800 | | 0:01:46.850,0:01:53.850 |
| zero such that for all x which are given delta
| | This is where...you need to really think, so |
| distance of c, f(x) is
| | I might say ok the limit is, looks like it's zero. |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:14.800,0:01:17.590 | | 0:01:58.259,0:01:58.509 |
| within epsilon distance of L. Okay?
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:17.590,0:01:24.590 | | 0:01:58.469,0:02:04.749 |
| Now, how do we describe this in terms for
| | At zero, you say that looks neat, that looks |
| limit game?
| | right because you see when the x value approaches, |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:26.530,0:01:33.530 | | 0:02:04.749,0:02:09.190 |
| KM: So, skeptic starts off with the first
| | comes close to zero, the f(x) value also comes |
| part of the definition.
| | close to zero. |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:34.990,0:01:38.189 | | 0:02:09.190,0:02:12.700 |
| Vipul: By picking the epsilon? Okay, that's
| | It keeps oscillating between -1and 1, |
| the thing written in
| | and it keeps coming. |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:38.189,0:01:42.939 | | 0:02:12.700,0:02:19.700 |
| black. What's the skeptic trying to do? What's the
| | I draw a very small ball around zero, like |
| goal of the skeptic?
| | that. |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:42.939,0:01:49.100 | | 0:02:19.780,0:02:22.700 |
| KM: To try and pick an epsilon that would
| | The function is going to keep entering this |
| not work.
| | ball. |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:49.100,0:01:53.450 | | 0:02:22.700,0:02:27.060 |
| Vipul: So the goal of the skeptic is to try
| | A ball or a square one or whatever. |
| to show that the statement is false.
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:53.450,0:01:54.100 | | 0:02:27.060,0:02:34.060 |
| KM: Yeah.
| | A very small neighborhood of this origin point |
| | here in this two-dimensional picture. |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:54.100,0:01:57.790 | | 0:02:35.230,0:02:40.459 |
| Vipul: Right? In this case the skeptic should
| | The function graph is going to enter that |
| try to start by choosing
| | repeatedly. |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:57.790,0:02:02.220 | | 0:02:40.459,0:02:42.010 |
| an epsilon that is really -- the goal of
| | Do you think the limit is zero? [ANSWER!] |
| the skeptic is to pick an | |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:02.220,0:02:04.500 | | 0:02:42.010,0:02:42.830 |
| epsilon that's really small, what is the
| | Rui: No. |
| skeptic trying to challenge
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:04.500,0:02:07.920 | | 0:02:42.830,0:02:46.860 |
| the prover into doing by picking the epsilon?
| | Vipul: No? Why not? Isn't it coming really |
| The skeptic is trying to
| | close to zero? |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:07.920,0:02:11.959 | | 0:02:46.860,0:02:47.430 |
| challenge the prover into trapping the function
| | Rui: Sometimes. |
| close to L when x is
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:11.959,0:02:17.040 | | 0:02:47.430,0:02:49.140 |
| close to c. And the skeptic specifies what
| | Vipul: What do you mean "sometimes?" |
| is meant by "close to L" is
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:17.040,0:02:19.860 | | 0:02:49.140,0:02:56.140 |
| by the choice of epsilon. Okay?
| | Rui: It means sometimes it is real close to |
| | zero and then it flies away. |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:19.860,0:02:24.900 | | 0:02:56.870,0:03:03.870 |
| When picking epsilon the skeptic is
| | Vipul: Ok, "flies away." [Hmm] So what's |
| effectively picking this interval, L -
| | your objection? What is not happening? |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:24.900,0:02:30.700 | | 0:03:04.019,0:03:06.010 |
| epsilon, L + epsilon). Okay? And basically
| | Rui: We can not trap. |
| that's what the skeptic is
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:30.700,0:02:33.680 | | 0:03:06.010,0:03:07.239 |
| doing. The prover is then picking a delta.
| | Vipul: We cannot trap... |
| What is the goal of the
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:33.680,0:02:36.239 | | 0:03:07.239,0:03:11.909 |
| prover in picking the delta? The prover is
| | Rui: ...trap it in a neighborhood of zero. |
| saying, "Here's how I can
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:36.239,0:02:40.099 | | 0:03:11.909,0:03:18.480 |
| trap the function within that interval. I'm
| | Vipul: Function not trapped. |
| going to pick a delta and
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:40.099,0:02:43.520 | | 0:03:18.480,0:03:20.110 |
| my claim is that if the x value within delta distance of c, except the
| | What should the limit be if it is not zero? |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:43.520,0:02:47.000 | | 0:03:20.110,0:03:24.849 |
| point c itself, so my claim is for any x value
| | Should it be half, two-thirds, what should |
| there the function is
| | the limit be? [ANSWER!] |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:47.000,0:02:48.260 | | 0:03:24.849,0:03:31.849 |
| trapped in here."
| | (I'll explain this later), what do you think |
| | the limit should be? |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:48.260,0:02:52.819 | | 0:03:34.659,0:03:36.730 |
| So, the prover picks the delta and then the
| | Rui: It doesn't have a limit. |
| skeptic tries to meet the
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:52.819,0:02:56.709 | | 0:03:36.730,0:03:38.299 |
| prover's claim or rather, test the prover's
| | Vipul: It doesn't have a limit. |
| claim by picking an x
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:56.709,0:02:59.670 | | 0:03:38.299,0:03:39.790 |
| which is within the interval specified by
| | Ok, so what does that mean? |
| the prover and then they
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:59.670,0:03:03.379 | | 0:03:39.790,0:03:45.290 |
| both check whether f(x) is within epsilon
| | Whatever limit you claim the function has |
| distance [of L]. If it is
| | you are wrong...If you claim the function had |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:03.379,0:03:07.940 | | 0:03:45.290,0:03:49.170 |
| then the prover wins and if it is not, if
| | any numerical limit, if you claim if it is half you |
| this [|f(x) - L|]is not less
| | are wrong. |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:07.940,0:03:09.989 | | 0:03:49.170,0:03:50.640 |
| than epsilon then the skeptic wins. Okay?
| | If you claim minus half you are wrong. |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:09.989,0:03:13.659 | | 0:03:50.640,0:03:52.720 |
| So, the skeptic is picking the neighborhood
| | If you claim the limit is 50, you are wrong. |
| of the target point which
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:13.659,0:03:17.030 | | 0:03:52.720,0:03:54.959 |
| in this case is just the open interval of
| | Whatever claim you make about the limit, |
| radius epsilon, the prover
| | you are wrong. |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:17.030,0:03:21.940 | | 0:03:54.959,0:04:00.780 |
| is picking the delta which is effectively the
| | So let's try to think of this in terms of the |
| neighborhood of the domain
| | game between a prover and a skeptic. |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:21.940,0:03:25.760 | | 0:04:00.780,0:04:02.730 |
| point except the point c as I've said open
| | (You should go and review that video |
| interval (c - delta, c +
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:25.760,0:03:30.870 | | 0:04:02.730,0:04:09.730 |
| delta) excluding c and then the skeptic picks
| | or read the corresponding material to understand |
| an x in the neighborhood
| | what I am going to say.) |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:30.870,0:03:35.700 | | 0:04:09.829,0:04:13.969 |
| specified by prover and if the function value
| | It's good if you have also seen the video |
| is within the interval
| | on the definition of limit statement being |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:35.700,0:03:38.830 | | 0:04:13.969,0:04:17.709 |
| specified by the skeptic then the prover wins.
| | false, which builds on that. |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:38.830,0:03:41.989 | | 0:04:17.709,0:04:21.620 |
| Now, what does it mean to say the statement
| | What I am now asking you, what does it mean |
| is true in terms of the
| | to say the limit does not exist? |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:41.989,0:03:43.080 | | 0:04:21.620,0:04:23.980 |
| game?
| | As x approaches c [limit] of f(x) does not exist. |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:43.080,0:03:50.080 | | 0:04:23.980,0:04:27.810 |
| KM: So, it means that the prover is always
| | Here c is zero, but that is not relevant... |
| going to win the game.
| | that is not necessary for the definition. |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:51.849,0:03:55.629 | | 0:04:27.810,0:04:32.910 |
| Vipul: Well, sort of. I mean the prover may
| | Well it is the usual way we say that the |
| play it stupidly. The
| | limit statement is false except we need to |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:55.629,0:04:00.750 | | 0:04:32.910,0:04:37.170 |
| prover can win the game if the prover plays
| | add one step in the beginning, which is for |
| well. So, the prover has a
| | every L in R [the reals]. |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:00.750,0:04:03.230 | | 0:04:37.170,0:04:42.460 |
| winning strategy for the game. Okay?
| | It says that for every L in R [the reals] the statement |
| | limit x approaches c, f(x) equals L, is false. |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:05.230,0:04:10.299 | | 0:04:42.460,0:04:43.900 |
| The statement is true if the prover has a
| | So how does it read? |
| winning strategy for [the
| | |
| | 0:04:43.900,0:04:48.220 |
| | It says, for every L in R [the reals] there exists epsilon |
| | greater than zero such that for every delta |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:10.299,0:04:14.090 | | 0:04:48.220,0:04:55.030 |
| game] and that means the prover has a way
| | greater than zero there exists x, within the |
| of playing the game such that | | delta neighborhood of c such that f(x) is |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:14.090,0:04:17.320 | | 0:04:55.030,0:04:58.590 |
| whatever the skeptic does the prover is going
| | not in the epsilon neighborhood of L. |
| to win the game. The
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:17.320,0:04:20.789 | | 0:04:58.590,0:05:05.590 |
| statement is considered false if the skeptic
| | How would you interpret this in terms of a |
| has a winning strategy
| | game between a prover and a skeptic?[ANSWER, THINKING ALONG!] |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:20.789,0:04:23.370 | | 0:05:06.470,0:05:11.570 |
| for the game which means the skeptic has a
| | Rui: For every limit the prover proposes... |
| way of playing so that
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:23.370,0:04:25.729 | | 0:05:11.570,0:05:16.420 |
| whatever the prover does the skeptic can win
| | Vipul: This is not quite the same as the limit |
| the game.
| | game which you may have seen in a previous |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:25.729,0:04:27.599 | | 0:05:16.420,0:05:21.170 |
| Or if the game doesn't make sense at all
| | video which was assuming that the limit was |
| ...
| | already given as a part of the game. |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:27.599,0:04:29.460 | | 0:05:21.170,0:05:28.170 |
| maybe the function is not defined on
| | This is sort of a somewhat more general game or |
| | a more meta game where part of the game |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:29.460,0:04:31.050 | | 0:05:28.420,0:05:31.950 |
| the immediate left and right of c. | | is also the prover trying to specify what |
| | the limit should be. |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:31.050,0:04:32.370 | | 0:05:31.950,0:05:37.100 |
| If the function isn't defined then we
| | The first step the prover plays, the prover |
| | is in black, skeptic is in red. |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:32.370,0:04:34.160 | | 0:05:37.100,0:05:43.290 |
| cannot even make sense of the statement.
| | The first step the prover plays, proposes |
| | a value of the limit. Then? |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:34.160,0:04:36.990 | | 0:05:43.290,0:05:47.280 |
| Either way -- the skeptic has a winning strategy
| | Rui: The skeptic chooses an epsilon. |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:36.990,0:04:37.770 | | 0:05:47.280,0:05:50.020 |
| or the game doesn't make sense --
| | Vipul: What's the goal of the skeptic in choosing |
| | the epsilon? |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:41.770,0:04:43.470 | | 0:05:50.020,0:05:56.740 |
| then the statement is false.
| | The goal of the skeptic is.. so let's say |
| | the prover chose a limit value L here, that's |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:43.470,0:04:47.660 | | 0:05:56.740,0:05:58.470 |
| If the prover has a winning strategy
| | numerical value L here. |
| the statement is true.
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:47.660,0:04:54.660 | | 0:05:58.470,0:06:00.050 |
| With this background in mind let's look
| | The skeptic picks epsilon. |
| at some common misconceptions.
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:56.540,0:05:03.540 | | 0:06:00.050,0:06:06.650 |
| Okay. Let's say we are trying to prove that
| | The skeptic will pick epsilon, which means |
| the limit as x approaches | | the skeptic is picking this band from L minus |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:27.620,0:05:31.530 | | 0:06:06.650,0:06:12.400 |
| 2 of x^2 is 4, so is that statement correct?
| | epsilon to L plus epsilon. |
| The statement we're
| | |
| | 0:06:12.400,0:06:14.270 |
| | Now what does the prover try to do? |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:31.530,0:05:32.060 | | 0:06:14.270,0:06:19.000 |
| trying to prove? | | The prover tries to pick a delta. What is |
| | the prover trying to do? |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:32.060,0:05:32.680 | | 0:06:19.000,0:06:24.490 |
| KM: Yes.
| | Find a neighborhood of c, such that the |
| | function in that neighborhood of c the function |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:32.680,0:05:35.960 | | 0:06:24.490,0:06:28.370 |
| Vipul: That's correct. Because in fact x^2
| | is trapped within epsilon of L. |
| is a continuous function
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:35.960,0:05:40.160 | | 0:06:28.370,0:06:32.740 |
| and the limit of a continuous function at
| | So in our case, c is zero in this example, |
| the point is just the
| | so the prover will be trying to pick a neighborhood |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:40.160,0:05:43.030 | | 0:06:32.740,0:06:39.740 |
| value at the point and 2^2 is 4. But we're
| | of zero, is something like... zero plus delta |
| going to now try to prove
| | on the right and zero minus delta on the left. |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:43.030,0:05:48.530 | | 0:06:44.620,0:06:45.750 |
| this formally using the epsilon-delta definition
| | What's the goal of the prover? |
| of limit, okay? Now | |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:48.530,0:05:51.229 | | 0:06:45.750,0:06:50.840 |
| in terms of the epsilon-delta definition or | | To say that whenever x is in this interval, |
| rather in terms of this
| | for all x, |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:51.229,0:05:55.160 | | 0:06:50.840,0:06:53.500 |
| game setup, what we need to do is we need
| | The prover is trying to say that all for x |
| to describe a winning
| | in here, the function [difference from L] is less than epsilon. |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:55.160,0:06:01.460 | | 0:06:53.500,0:06:56.170 |
| strategy for the prover. Okay? We need to
| | The skeptic who is trying to disprove that. |
| describe delta in terms of
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:01.460,0:06:05.240 | | 0:06:56.170,0:06:59.060 |
| epsilon. The prover essentially ... the only
| | What does the skeptic need to do? |
| move the prover makes is
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:05.240,0:06:09.130 | | 0:06:59.060,0:07:03.900 |
| this choice of delta. Right? The skeptic picked
| | Rui: Every time the prover finds an x. |
| epsilon, the prover
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:09.130,0:06:12.810 | | 0:07:03.900,0:07:07.540 |
| picked delta then the skeptic picks x and
| | Vipul: Well the prover finds, picks the delta, |
| then they judge who won. The
| | what does the skeptic try to do? |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:12.810,0:06:15.810 | | 0:07:07.540,0:07:08.480 |
| only choice the prover makes is the choice
| | Rui: Just pick an x. |
| of delta, right?
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:15.810,0:06:16.979 | | 0:07:08.480,0:07:10.550 |
| KM: Exactly.
| | Vipul: Picks an x such that the function... |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:16.979,0:06:20.080 | | 0:07:10.550,0:07:12.140 |
| Vipul: The prover chooses the delta in terms
| | Rui: Is out of the... |
| of epsilon.
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:20.080,0:06:24.819 | | 0:07:12.140,0:07:13.960 |
| So, here is my strategy. My strategy is I'm
| | Vipul: Is outside that thing. |
| going to choose delta as,
| | |
| | 0:07:13.960,0:07:24.960 |
| | Let me make this part a little bit more...so |
| | here you have... the same colors. |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:24.819,0:06:29.509 | | 0:07:25.150,0:07:41.150 |
| I as a prover is going to choose delta as
| | This is |
| epsilon over the absolute | | the axis...The skeptic...The prover has picked |
| | this point and the skeptic has picked epsilon. |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:29.509,0:06:33.690 | | 0:07:41.780,0:07:46.670 |
| value of x plus 2 [|x + 2|]. Okay?
| | So this is L plus epsilon, L minus epsilon. |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:33.690,0:06:36.880 | | 0:07:46.670,0:07:50.460 |
| Now, what I want to show that this strategy
| | The prover is now, it so happens that c is |
| works. So, what I'm aiming
| | zero here. |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:36.880,0:06:39.840 | | 0:07:50.460,0:07:56.690 |
| is that if ... so let me just finish this | | So that everything is happening near the y |
| and then you can tell me where
| | axis. |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:39.840,0:06:43.419 | | 0:07:56.690,0:08:03.690 |
| I went wrong here, okay? I'm claiming that
| | Now, the prover wants to pick a delta, the |
| this strategy works which | | prover wants to pick, like this, should be |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:43.419,0:06:47.130 | | 0:08:07.320,0:08:07.910 |
| means I'm claiming that if the skeptic now
| | the same. |
| picks any x which is within
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:47.130,0:06:54.130 | | 0:08:07.910,0:08:14.910 |
| delta distance of 2; the target point, | | So this is c plus delta which c is zero, so |
| | zero plus delta and zero minus delta. |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:56.710,0:07:01.490 | | 0:08:17.810,0:08:21.960 |
| then the function value is within epsilon
| | Now, under what conditions...What happens |
| distance of 4, the claimed
| | next? |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:01.490,0:07:04.080 | | 0:08:21.960,0:08:28.240 |
| limit. That's what I want to show.
| | The prover is implicitly trying to claim that |
| | the function, when the x value is close here, |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:04.080,0:07:08.300 | | 0:08:28.240,0:08:30.520 |
| Now is that true? Well, here's how I do
| | the function value is trapped here. |
| it. I think, I started by
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:08.300,0:07:13.539 | | 0:08:30.520,0:08:35.089 |
| picking this expression, I factored it as
| | What the skeptic wants to show is that, that's |
| |x - 2||x + 2|. The absolute
| | not true. |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:13.539,0:07:16.810 | | 0:08:35.089,0:08:39.830 |
| value of product is the product of the absolute | | If it isn't true, in order to do that, the |
| values so this can be
| | skeptic should pick a value of x. |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:16.810,0:07:21.599 | | 0:08:39.830,0:08:46.830 |
| split like that. Now I see, while we know
| | So the skeptic needs to pick a value of x |
| that |x - 2| is less than | | somewhere in this interval such that at that |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:21.599,0:07:24.979 | | 0:08:48.110,0:08:55.110 |
| delta and this is a positive thing. So we
| | value of f(x)...let me just make the x axis...so |
| can either less than delta
| | the skeptic wants to pick a value of x, maybe |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:24.979,0:07:31.979 | | 0:08:59.209,0:09:06.209 |
| times absolute value x plus 2. Right? And
| | its somewhere here, such that when you evaluate |
| this delta is epsilon over
| | the function at x it lies outside. |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:35.599,0:07:37.620 | | 0:09:07.269,0:09:11.720 |
| |x + 2| and we get epsilon.
| | If when you evaluate the function at x, and it lies |
| | outside this strip then the skeptic wins and |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:37.620,0:07:40.460 | | 0:09:11.720,0:09:16.290 |
| So, this thing equals something, less than
| | if the value of the function of x is inside |
| something, equals
| | the strip then the prover wins. |
| | |
| | 0:09:16.290,0:09:23.290 |
| | Now looking back at this function, the question |
| | is, can the prover pick an L such that regardless, |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:40.460,0:07:43.580 | | 0:09:25.209,0:09:31.779 |
| something, equals something, you have a chain
| | so can the prover pick a value of L such that...Is |
| of things, there's one
| | this whole thing coming? |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:43.580,0:07:47.720 | | 0:09:31.779,0:09:37.860 |
| step that you have less than. So overall we
| | Such that regardless of the epsilon that the |
| get that this expression,
| | skeptic picks, there exists a delta such that |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:47.720,0:07:53.740 | | 0:09:37.860,0:09:44.439 |
| this thing is less than epsilon. So, we have
| | for all x the function is trapped? Or is it |
| shown that whatever x the
| | instead true that the skeptic will win? (i.e.) Is |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:53.740,0:08:00.370 | | 0:09:44.439,0:09:50.579 |
| skeptic would pick, the function value lies
| | it true that whatever L the prover picks there |
| within the epsilon
| | exists an epsilon, since the skeptic picks |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:00.370,0:08:05.030 | | 0:09:50.579,0:09:57.360 |
| distance of the claimed limit. Whatever the
| | an epsilon, such that whatever delta the prover |
| skeptic picks (x within the
| | picks the function in not in fact, trapped |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:05.030,0:08:09.240 | | 0:09:57.360,0:10:00.399 |
| delta distance of the target point).
| | here. What do you think looking at the picture |
| | here? |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:09.240,0:08:16.240 | | 0:10:00.399,0:10:05.329 |
| Does this strategy work? Is this a proof?
| | Can you trap the function in a rectangle |
| What's wrong with this?
| | like this? [ANSWER!] |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:24.270,0:08:31.270 | | 0:10:05.329,0:10:06.100 |
| Do you think there's anything wrong
| | Rui: No. |
| with the algebra down here?
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:33.510,0:08:40.510 | | 0:10:06.100,0:10:09.930 |
| KM: Well, we said that ...
| | Vipul: Well, not if it is a very small rectangle. |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:40.910,0:08:47.910 | | 0:10:09.930,0:10:16.930 |
| Vipul: So, is there anything wrong in the
| | What should the skeptic's strategy be? |
| algebra here? This is this,
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:50.160,0:08:51.740 | | 0:10:17.060,0:10:23.930 |
| this is less than delta, delta ... So, this
| | The claim is that the limit does not exist, |
| part
| | that is the claim. |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:51.740,0:08:52.089 | | 0:10:23.930,0:10:25.990 |
| seems fine, right?
| | The claim is that this limit doesn't exist. |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:52.089,0:08:52.339 | | 0:10:25.990,0:10:29.750 |
| KM: Yes.
| | What is the skeptic's strategy? |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:52.330,0:08:55.640 | | 0:10:29.750,0:10:31.990 |
| Vipul: There's nothing wrong in the algebra
| | What do you mean by skeptic strategy? |
| here. So, what could be
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:55.640,0:09:00.310 | | 0:10:31.990,0:10:37.370 |
| wrong? Our setup seems fine. If the x value
| | Well, the skeptic should have some strategy |
| is within delta distance
| | that works, so the skeptic should pick an |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:00.310,0:09:03.350 | | 0:10:37.370,0:10:43.290 |
| of 2 then the function value is within epsilon
| | epsilon that is smart and then the skeptic |
| this is 4. That's
| | should pick an x that works. |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:03.350,0:09:05.360 | | 0:10:43.290,0:10:50.209 |
| exactly what we want to prove, correct?
| | What epsilon should the skeptic pick? Suppose |
| | the skeptic picks epsilon as 50 million, |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:05.360,0:09:11.120 | | 0:10:50.209,0:10:52.050 |
| So, there's nothing wrong this point onward.
| | is that a winning strategy? |
| So, the error happened
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:11.120,0:09:14.440 | | 0:10:52.050,0:10:52.790 |
| somewhere here. Where do you think that part
| | Rui: No. |
| you think what is wrong
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:14.440,0:09:21.160 | | 0:10:52.790,0:10:53.899 |
| here? In the strategy choice step? What do
| | Vipul: Why not? |
| you think went wrong in the
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:21.160,0:09:24.010 | | 0:10:53.899,0:10:58.300 |
| strategy choice step?
| | Rui: He should pick something between -1 and |
| | 1, right? |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:24.010,0:09:28.850 | | 0:10:58.300,0:11:01.920 |
| What? Okay, so let's go over the game. Skeptic
| | Vipul: Well epsilon is a positive number so |
| will choose the epsilon,
| | what do you mean? |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:28.850,0:09:29.760 | | 0:11:01.920,0:11:04.600 |
| then?
| | Rui: Oh, anything between one, smaller. |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:29.760,0:09:35.130 | | 0:11:04.600,0:11:05.230 |
| KM: Then the prover chooses delta.
| | Vipul: Smaller than... |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:35.130,0:09:36.080 | | 0:11:05.230,0:11:08.999 |
| Vipul: Prover chooses delta. Then?
| | Rui: Less than one. Epsilon. |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:36.080,0:09:39.529 | | 0:11:08.999,0:11:12.470 |
| KM: Then the skeptic has to choose the x value.
| | Vipul: Less than one. Why will that work? |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:39.529,0:09:42.470 | | 0:11:12.470,0:11:19.470 |
| Vipul: x value. So, when the prover is deciding
| | Rui: Because even if it is less than one then |
| the strategy, when the
| | anything, no matter what kind of delta... |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:42.470,0:09:45.860 | | 0:11:20.930,0:11:27.930 |
| prover is choosing the delta, what information | | Vipul: Whatever L the prover picked...What |
| does the prover have?
| | is the width of this interval? The distance |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:45.860,0:09:48.410 | | 0:11:28.209,0:11:29.589 |
| KM: He just has the information epsilon.
| | from the top and the bottom is? |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:48.410,0:09:50.500 | | 0:11:29.589,0:11:30.279 |
| Vipul: Just the information on epsilon. So?
| | Rui: 2 |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:50.500,0:09:57.060 | | 0:11:30.279,0:11:30.980 |
| KM: So, in this case the mistake was that
| | Vipul: [2 times] epsilon. |
| because he didn't know the x value yet?
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:57.060,0:10:03.100 | | 0:11:30.980,0:11:31.680 |
| Vipul: The strategy cannot depend on x.
| | Rui: [2 times] epsilon. |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:03.100,0:10:04.800 | | 0:11:31.680,0:11:38.680 |
| KM: Yeah.
| | Vipul: 2 epsilon. If epsilon |
| | is less than one, the skeptic's strategy is |
| | pick epsilon less than one any epsilon. |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:04.800,0:10:09.790 | | 0:11:43.089,0:11:50.089 |
| Vipul: So, the prover is sort of picking the
| | The skeptic can fix epsilon in the beginning, maybe pick |
| delta based on x but the
| | epsilon as 0.1 or something, but any epsilon |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:09.790,0:10:12.660 | | 0:11:50.610,0:11:52.019 |
| prover doesn't know x at this stage when
| | less than one will do. |
| picking the delta. The delta
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:12.660,0:10:15.910 | | 0:11:52.019,0:11:59.019 |
| that the prover chooses has to be completely
| | In fact epsilon equal to one will do. Let |
| a function of epsilon
| | us play safe and pick epsilon as 0.1. |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:15.910,0:10:19.680 | | 0:11:59.810,0:12:00.999 |
| alone, it cannot depend on the future moves
| | Why does it work? |
| of the skeptic because the
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:19.680,0:10:23.700 | | 0:12:00.999,0:12:06.600 |
| prover cannot read the skeptic's mind. Okay?
| | Because this 2 epsilon cannot include both |
| And doesn't know what the
| | one and minus one. |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:23.700,0:10:24.800 | | 0:12:06.600,0:12:12.649 |
| skeptic plans to do.
| | It cannot cover this entire thing because |
| | this has width two, from one to minus one. |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:24.800,0:10:31.800 | | 0:12:12.649,0:12:17.589 |
| So that is the ... that's the ... I call
| | If the skeptic picks an epsilon less than |
| this ... can you see what I
| | one, regardless of the L the prover has tried, |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:42.240,0:10:43.040 | | 0:12:17.589,0:12:23.079 |
| call this?
| | the strip is not wide enough to include everything |
| | from minus one to one. |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:43.040,0:10:45.399 | | 0:12:23.079,0:12:27.990 |
| KM: The strongly telepathic prover.
| | Regardless of what Delta the prover picks, |
| | we know that however small an interval we |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:45.399,0:10:51.470 | | 0:12:27.990,0:12:32.180 |
| Vipul: So, do you know what I meant by that?
| | pick around zero, the function is going to |
| Well, I meant the prover
| | take all values from negative one to one in |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:51.470,0:10:58.470 | | 0:12:32.180,0:12:35.759 |
| is sort of reading the skeptic's mind. All
| | that small interval. |
| right? It's called
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:07.769,0:11:10.329 | | 0:12:35.759,0:12:40.819 |
| telepathy.
| | Now the skeptic will be able to find an x |
| | such that the function value lies outside |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:10.329,0:11:17.329 | | 0:12:40.819,0:12:42.290 |
| Okay, the next one.
| | the interval. |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:25.589,0:11:30.230 | | 0:12:42.290,0:12:45.579 |
| This one says that the function defined this
| | The skeptic should...the key idea is that |
| way. Okay? It's defined
| | the skeptic pick epsilon small enough, in |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:30.230,0:11:34.829 | | 0:12:45.579,0:12:50.360 |
| as g(x) is x when x is rational and zero when
| | this case the skeptic's choice of epsilon |
| x is irrational. So,
| | doesn't depend on what L the prover chose. |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:34.829,0:11:41.829 | | 0:12:50.360,0:12:51.269 |
| what would this look like? Well, it's like
| | It need not. |
| this. There's a line y
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:42.750,0:11:49.510 | | 0:12:51.269,0:12:52.889 |
| equals x and there's the x-axis and the
| | The strategy doesn't. |
| graph is just the irrational x
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:49.510,0:11:52.750 | | 0:12:52.889,0:12:59.889 |
| coordinate parts of this line and the rational
| | Then after the prover has picked a delta, |
| x coordinate parts of | | picked an x such that the function lies outside. |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:52.750,0:11:56.350 | | 0:13:01.249,0:13:07.410 |
| this line. It's kind of like both these
| | Regardless of the L the prover picks, |
| lines but only parts of
| | that L doesn't work as a limit because |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:56.350,0:11:58.529 | | 0:13:07.410,0:13:10.550 |
| them. Right?
| | the skeptic wins and so the limit doesn't |
| | exist.</toggledisplay> |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:58.529,0:12:02.079
| | ==Strategic aspects== |
| Now we want to show that limit as x approaches
| |
| zero of g(x) is
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:02.079,0:12:06.899
| | ===The strategy of small=== |
| zero. So just in here, do you think the statement
| |
| is true? That x goes
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:06.899,0:12:09.910
| | In the game formulation of the limit, the following loose statements are true: |
| to zero, does this function go to zero?
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:09.910,0:12:10.610
| | * "Smaller is smarter" for the skeptic, i.e., the smaller the choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>, the better the outlook is for the skeptic to win. |
| KM: Yes.
| | * "Smaller is smarter" for the prover, i.e., the smaller the choice of <math>\delta</math>, the better the outlook is for the prover to win. |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:10.610,0:12:17.610
| | In other words, each side benefits by making the crucial move of that side as small as possible. However, there does not exist any ''single'' arbitrarily small number -- this is related to the observation in the [[#Two key ideas|motivation section]] that there is no such thing as a ''single'' arbitrarily close number. Thus, saying "choose as small a value as possible" is not a coherent strategy. What we can say is the following: |
| Vipul: Because both the pieces are going to
| |
| zero. That's the inclusion. Okay?
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:20.610,0:12:24.089 | | * If a value of <math>\delta > 0</math> works for a given value of <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, the same value of <math>\delta > 0</math> also works for larger choices of <math>\varepsilon</math>. |
| This is the proof we have here. So the idea,
| | * If a value of <math>\delta > 0</math> works for a given value of <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, smaller values of <math>\delta > 0</math> also work for the same choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>. |
| we again think about it
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:24.089,0:12:27.790
| | ===Prover's strategy revisited=== |
| in terms of the game. The skeptic first picks
| |
| the epsilon, okay? Now
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:27.790,0:12:30.779
| | The prover, in choosing a winning strategy, must specify a rule that can determine a value of <math>\delta</math> that works in terms of the value of <math>\varepsilon</math> specified by the skeptic. In other words, the prover must have a way of specifying <math>\delta</math> ''as a function of'' <math>\varepsilon</math>. |
| that we would have to choose the delta, but
| |
| there are really two cases
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:30.779,0:12:35.200
| | The skeptic also chooses <math>x</math> in the next move. However, the prover has no way of knowing the value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to pick. Thus, in order for the prover to have a winning strategy, the prover's choice of <math>\delta</math> should be such that ''no matter what'' <math>x</math> the skeptic picks, the prover wins. |
| on x, right? x rational and x irrational.
| |
| So the prover chooses the
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:35.200,0:12:39.459
| | ===Skeptic's strategy revisited=== |
| delta based on sort of whether the x is rational
| |
| or irrational, so if
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:39.459,0:12:43.880
| | The skeptic, in choosing a winning strategy, must specify the value of <math>\varepsilon</math> and then specify how to pick a value of <math>x</math> that works. When picking the value of <math>\varepsilon</math>, the skeptic does not know what <math>\delta</math> the prover will pick. Thus, the skeptic's choice of <math>\varepsilon</math> cannot be dependent on the prover's subsequent choice of <math>\delta</math>. |
| the x is rational then the prover just picks | |
| delta equals epsilon, and | |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:43.880,0:12:48.339
| | However, when picking the value of <math>x</math>, the skeptic is aware of (and constrained by) the prover's choice of <math>\delta</math>. |
| that's good enough for rational x, right?
| |
| Because for rational x the
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:48.339,0:12:51.410
| | ==Misconceptions== |
| slope of the line is one so picking delta
| |
| as epsilon is good enough.
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:51.410,0:12:55.760
| | Most misconceptions associated with the formal <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> definition of limit have to do with the ordering of the moves in the game, who's in charge of what move, and what information each person has at the time of making the move. We describe some common misconceptions below. |
| For irrational x, if the skeptic's planning
| |
| to choose an irrational x
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:55.760,0:12:59.730
| | <center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=F0r_offAc5M}}</center> |
| then the prover can just choose any delta
| |
| actually. Like just pick
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:59.730,0:13:03.880 | | Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay> |
| the delta in advance. Like delta is one or
| | 0:00:15.500,0:00:19.140 |
| something. Because if x is
| | Vipul: Okay. This talk is going to be about |
| | certain misconceptions |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:03.880,0:13:10.430 | | 0:00:19.140,0:00:22.440 |
| irrational then it's like a constant function
| | that people have regarding limits and these |
| and therefore, like, for
| | are misconceptions that |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:10.430,0:13:14.970 | | 0:00:22.440,0:00:25.840 |
| any delta the function is trapped within epsilon
| | people generally acquire after... |
| distance of the given
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:14.970,0:13:16.970 | | 0:00:25.840,0:00:29.180 |
| limit. Okay?
| | These are not the misconceptions that |
| | people have before studying limits, |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:16.970,0:13:19.950 | | 0:00:29.180,0:00:32.730 |
| So the prover sort of makes two cases based
| | these are misconceptions you might have after |
| on whether the skeptic
| | studying limits, |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:19.950,0:13:26.950 | | 0:00:32.730,0:00:35.059 |
| will pick a rational or an irrational x and
| | after studying the epsilon delta definition. |
| sort of based on that if
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:27.040,0:13:30.730 | | 0:00:35.059,0:00:38.550 |
| it's rational this is the prover's strategy,
| | I'm going to describe these misconceptions |
| if it's irrational then
| | in terms of the limit game, |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:30.730,0:13:34.050 | | 0:00:38.550,0:00:41.900 |
| the prover can just do any delta. | | the prover skeptic game of the limit. Though |
| | the misconceptions |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:34.050,0:13:37.630 | | 0:00:41.900,0:00:45.850 |
| Can you tell me what's wrong with this proof?
| | themselves don't depend on |
| | the understanding of the |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:37.630,0:13:44.630 | | 0:00:45.850,0:00:49.059 |
| KM: So, you're still kind of basing it on
| | game but to understand exactly what's |
| what the skeptic is going to
| | happening, it's better to think |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:44.750,0:13:45.800 | | 0:00:49.059,0:00:51.010 |
| pick next.
| | of it in terms of the game. |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:45.800,0:13:49.100 | | 0:00:51.010,0:00:55.370 |
| Vipul: Okay. It's actually pretty much the
| | First recall the definition. So limit as x |
| same problem [as the
| | approaches c of f(x) is a |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:49.100,0:13:55.449 | | 0:00:55.370,0:01:01.629 |
| preceding one], in a somewhat minor form.
| | number L; so c and L are both numbers, real |
| The prover is sort of making
| | numbers. f is a function, |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:55.449,0:13:59.959 | | 0:01:01.629,0:01:06.380 |
| cases based on what the skeptic is going to
| | x is approaching c. And we said this is true |
| do next, and choosing a
| | if the following -- for |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:59.959,0:14:01.940 | | 0:01:06.380,0:01:10.180 |
| strategy according to that. But the prover
| | every epsilon greater than zero, there exists |
| doesn't actually know what
| | a delta greater than |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:01.940,0:14:05.089 | | 0:01:10.180,0:01:14.800 |
| the skeptic is going to do next, so the prover
| | zero such that for all x which are within delta |
| should actually have a
| | distance of c, f(x) is |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:05.089,0:14:08.970 | | 0:01:14.800,0:01:17.590 |
| single strategy that works in both cases.
| | within epsilon distance of L. Okay? |
| If cases will be made to
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:08.970,0:14:12.209 | | 0:01:17.590,0:01:24.590 |
| prove that the strategy works so the prover
| | Now, how do we describe this in terms for |
| has to have a single
| | limit game? |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:12.209,0:14:12.459 | | 0:01:26.530,0:01:33.530 |
| strategy.
| | KM: So, skeptic starts off with the first |
| | part of the definition. |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:12.449,0:14:15.370 | | 0:01:34.990,0:01:38.189 |
| Now in this case the strategy we can choose
| | Vipul: By picking the epsilon? Okay, that's |
| the prover just, the | | the thing written in |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:15.370,0:14:18.779 | | 0:01:38.189,0:01:42.939 |
| prover can pick delta as epsilon because that
| | black. What's the skeptic trying to do? What's the |
| will work in both cases.
| | goal of the skeptic? |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:18.779,0:14:20.019 | | 0:01:42.939,0:01:49.100 |
| KM: Exactly. | | KM: To try and pick an epsilon that would |
| | not work. |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:20.019,0:14:23.320 | | 0:01:49.100,0:01:53.450 |
| Vipul: Yeah. But in general if you have two | | Vipul: So the goal of the skeptic is to try |
| different piece
| | to show that the statement is false. |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:23.320,0:14:26.579 | | 0:01:53.450,0:01:54.100 |
| definitions then the way you would do it so
| | KM: Yeah. |
| you would pick delta as
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:26.579,0:14:30.300 | | 0:01:54.100,0:01:57.790 |
| the min [minimum] of the delta that work in | | Vipul: Right? In this case the skeptic should |
| the two different pieces,
| | try to start by choosing |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:30.300,0:14:32.910 | | 0:01:57.790,0:02:02.220 |
| because you sort of want to make sure that
| | an epsilon that is really [small] -- the goal of |
| both cases are covered. But
| | the skeptic is to pick an |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:32.910,0:14:36.730 | | 0:02:02.220,0:02:04.500 |
| the point is you have to do that -- take | | epsilon that's really small, what is the |
| the min use that rather than
| | skeptic trying to challenge |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:36.730,0:14:39.730 | | 0:02:04.500,0:02:07.920 |
| just say, "I'm going to choose my delta
| | the prover into doing by picking the epsilon? |
| based on what the skeptic is
| | The skeptic is trying to |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:39.730,0:14:42.589 | | 0:02:07.920,0:02:11.959 |
| going to move next." Okay?
| | challenge the prover into trapping the function |
| | close to L when x is |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:42.589,0:14:49.120 | | 0:02:11.959,0:02:17.040 |
| This is a minor form of the same misconception
| | close to c. And the way the skeptic specifies |
| that that was there in
| | what is meant by "close to L" is |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:49.120,0:14:56.120 | | 0:02:17.040,0:02:19.860 |
| the previous example we saw. | | by the choice of epsilon. Okay? |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:04.620,0:15:11.620 | | 0:02:19.860,0:02:24.900 |
| So, this is what I call the mildly telepathic
| | When picking epsilon the skeptic is |
| prover, right? The
| | effectively picking this interval, L - |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:14.970,0:15:18.579 | | 0:02:24.900,0:02:30.700 |
| prover is still behaving telepathically
| | epsilon, L + epsilon). Okay? And basically |
| predicting the skeptic's future
| | that's what the skeptic is |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:18.579,0:15:23.740 | | 0:02:30.700,0:02:33.680 |
| moves but it's not so bad. The prover is
| | doing. The prover is then picking a delta. |
| just making, like, doing a
| | What is the goal of the |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:23.740,0:15:25.470 | | 0:02:33.680,0:02:36.239 |
| coin toss type of telepathy. That isn't
| | prover in picking the delta? The prover is |
| the only one the prover is
| | saying, "Here's how I can |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:25.470,0:15:30.790 | | 0:02:36.239,0:02:40.099 |
| actually, deciding exactly what x skeptic
| | trap the function within that interval. I'm |
| would take. But it's still
| | going to pick a delta and |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:30.790,0:15:32.790 | | 0:02:40.099,0:02:43.520 |
| the same problem and the reason why I think | | my claim is that if the x value within delta distance of c, except the |
| people will have this
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:32.790,0:15:36.329 | | 0:02:43.520,0:02:47.000 |
| misconception is because they don't think
| | point c itself, so my claim is for any x value |
| about it in terms of the
| | there the function is |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:36.329,0:15:38.970 | | 0:02:47.000,0:02:48.260 |
| sequence in which the moves are made, and
| | trapped in here." |
| the information that each
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:38.970,0:15:45.970 | | 0:02:48.260,0:02:52.819 |
| body has at any given stage of the game.
| | So, the prover picks the delta and then the |
| | skeptic tries to |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:50.889,0:15:57.889 | | 0:02:52.819,0:02:56.709 |
| Let's do this one.
| | test the prover's claim by picking an x |
|
| |
|
| 0:16:10.930,0:16:15.259 | | 0:02:56.709,0:02:59.670 |
| So, this is a limit game, right? Let's say
| | which is within the interval specified by |
| that limit as x approaches
| | the prover and then they |
|
| |
|
| 0:16:15.259,0:16:22.259 | | 0:02:59.670,0:03:03.379 |
| 1 of 2x is 2, okay? How do we go about showing
| | both check whether f(x) is within epsilon |
| this? Well, the idea is
| | distance [of L]. If it is |
|
| |
|
| 0:16:23.699,0:16:27.990 | | 0:03:03.379,0:03:07.940 |
| let's play the game, right? Let's say
| | then the prover wins and if it is not, if |
| the skeptic it picks epsilon as
| | this [|f(x) - L|]is not less |
|
| |
|
| 0:16:27.990,0:16:34.990 | | 0:03:07.940,0:03:09.989 |
| 0.1, okay? The prover picks delta as 0.05.
| | than epsilon then the skeptic wins. Okay? |
| The skeptic is then picking
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:16:35.139,0:16:38.790 | | 0:03:09.989,0:03:13.659 |
| epsilon as 0.1, the skeptic is saying, "Please
| | So, the skeptic is picking the neighborhood |
| trap the function
| | of the target point which |
|
| |
|
| 0:16:38.790,0:16:43.800 | | 0:03:13.659,0:03:17.030 |
| between 1.9 and 2.1. Okay? Find the delta
| | in this case is just the open interval of |
| small enough so that the
| | radius epsilon, the prover |
|
| |
|
| 0:16:43.800,0:16:48.389 | | 0:03:17.030,0:03:21.940 |
| function value is dropped between 1.9 and
| | is picking the delta which is effectively the |
| 2.1. The prover picks delta
| | neighborhood of the domain |
|
| |
|
| 0:16:48.389,0:16:55.389 | | 0:03:21.940,0:03:25.760 |
| as 0.05 which means the prover is now getting | | point except the point c as I've said open |
| the input value trap
| | interval (c - delta, c + |
|
| |
|
| 0:16:57.850,0:17:04.850 | | 0:03:25.760,0:03:30.870 |
| between 0.95 and 1.05. That's 1 plus minus
| | delta) excluding c and then the skeptic picks |
| this thing. And now the
| | an x in the neighborhood |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:05.439,0:17:09.070 | | 0:03:30.870,0:03:35.700 |
| prover is claiming that if the x value is | | specified by prover and if the function value |
| within this much distance of | | is within the interval |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:09.070,0:17:13.959 | | 0:03:35.700,0:03:38.830 |
| 1 except the value equal to 1, then the function
| | specified by the skeptic then the prover wins. |
| value is within 0.1
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:13.959,0:17:17.630 | | 0:03:38.830,0:03:41.989 |
| distance of 2. So, the skeptic tries picking
| | Now, what does it mean to say the statement |
| x within the interval
| | is true in terms of the |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:17.630,0:17:23.049 | | 0:03:41.989,0:03:43.080 |
| prescribed by the prover, so maybe the skeptic
| | game? |
| picks 0.97 which is
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:23.049,0:17:26.380 | | 0:03:43.080,0:03:50.080 |
| within 0.05 distance of 1.
| | KM: So, it means that the prover is always |
| | going to win the game. |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:26.380,0:17:31.570 | | 0:03:51.849,0:03:55.629 |
| And then they check that f(x) is 1.94, that
| | Vipul: Well, sort of. I mean the prover may |
| is at the distance of 0.06
| | play it stupidly. The |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:31.570,0:17:38.570 | | 0:03:55.629,0:04:00.750 |
| from 2. So, it's within 0.1 of the claimed
| | prover can win the game if the prover plays |
| limit. Who won the game?
| | well. So, the prover has a |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:38.780,0:17:42.650 | | 0:04:00.750,0:04:03.230 |
| If the thing is within the interval then who
| | winning strategy for the game. Okay? |
| wins?
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:42.650,0:17:43.320 | | 0:04:05.230,0:04:10.299 |
| KM: The prover.
| | The statement is true if the prover has a |
| | winning strategy for the |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:43.320,0:17:46.720 | | 0:04:10.299,0:04:14.090 |
| Vipul: The prover wins, right? So, the prover
| | game and that means the prover has a way |
| won again so therefore
| | of playing the game such that |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:46.720,0:17:52.100 | | 0:04:14.090,0:04:17.320 |
| this limit statement is true, right? So, what's
| | whatever the skeptic does the prover is going |
| wrong with this as a
| | to win the game. The |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:52.100,0:17:57.370 | | 0:04:17.320,0:04:20.789 |
| proof that the limit statement is true? How
| | statement is considered false if the skeptic |
| is this not a proof that
| | has a winning strategy |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:57.370,0:18:03.870 | | 0:04:20.789,0:04:23.370 |
| the limit statement is true? This what I've | | for the game which means the skeptic has a |
| written here, why is that
| | way of playing so that |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:03.870,0:18:05.990 | | 0:04:23.370,0:04:25.729 |
| not a proof that the limit statement is true?
| | whatever the prover does the skeptic can win |
| | the game. |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:05.990,0:18:11.960 | | 0:04:25.729,0:04:27.599 |
| KM: Because it's only an example for the
| | Or if the game doesn't make sense at all |
| specific choice of epsilon and x.
| | ... |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:11.960,0:18:16.200 | | 0:04:27.599,0:04:29.460 |
| Vipul: Yes, exactly. So, it's like a single
| | maybe the function is not defined on |
| play of the game, the
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:16.200,0:18:20.470 | | 0:04:29.460,0:04:31.050 |
| prover wins, but the limit statement doesn't
| | the immediate left and right of c. |
| just say that the prover
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:20.470,0:18:24.380 | | 0:04:31.050,0:04:32.370 |
| wins the game, it says the prover has a winning
| | If the function isn't defined then we |
| strategy. It says that
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:24.380,0:18:27.660 | | 0:04:32.370,0:04:34.160 |
| the prover can win the game regardless of
| | cannot even make sense of the statement. |
| how the skeptic plays;
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:27.660,0:18:31.070 | | 0:04:34.160,0:04:36.990 |
| there's a way for the prover to do that.
| | Either way -- the skeptic has a winning strategy |
| This just gives one example
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:31.070,0:18:34.640 | | 0:04:36.990,0:04:37.770 |
| where the prover won the game, but it doesn't
| | or the game doesn't make sense -- |
| tell us that regardless
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:34.640,0:18:37.280 | | 0:04:41.770,0:04:43.470 |
| of the epsilon the skeptic takes the prover
| | then the statement is false. |
| can pick a delta such that
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:37.280,0:18:41.090 | | 0:04:43.470,0:04:47.660 |
| regardless of the x the skeptic picks, the
| | If the prover has a winning strategy |
| function is within the
| | the statement is true. |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:41.090,0:18:45.530 | | 0:04:47.660,0:04:54.660 |
| thing. So that's what they should do. Okay?
| | With this background in mind let's look |
| | at some common misconceptions. |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:45.530,0:18:51.160 | | 0:04:56.540,0:05:03.540 |
| Now you notice -- I'm sure you notice this
| | Okay. Let's say we are trying to prove that |
| but the way the game and the
| | the limit as x approaches |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:51.160,0:18:58.160 | | 0:05:27.620,0:05:31.530 |
| limit definition. The way the limit definition
| | 2 of x^2 is 4, so is that statement correct? |
| goes, you see that all
| | The statement we're |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:59.870,0:19:04.260 | | 0:05:31.530,0:05:32.060 |
| the moves of the skeptic be right "for every"
| | trying to prove? |
| "for all." Right? And
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:04.260,0:19:07.390 | | 0:05:32.060,0:05:32.680 |
| for all the moves of the prover it's "there
| | KM: Yes. |
| exists." Why do we do
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:07.390,0:19:11.140 | | 0:05:32.680,0:05:35.960 |
| that? Because we are trying to get a winning
| | Vipul: That's correct. Because in fact x^2 |
| strategy for the prover,
| | is a continuous function |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:11.140,0:19:14.309 | | 0:05:35.960,0:05:40.160 |
| so the prover controls his own moves. Okay?
| | and the limit of a continuous function at |
| | the point is just the |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:14.309,0:19:15.250 | | 0:05:40.160,0:05:43.030 |
| KM: Exactly.
| | value at the point and 2^2 is 4. But we're |
| | going to now try to prove |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:15.250,0:19:18.630 | | 0:05:43.030,0:05:48.530 |
| Vipul: So, therefore wherever it's a prover
| | this formally using the epsilon-delta definition |
| move it will be a there
| | of limit, okay? Now |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:18.630,0:19:22.240 | | 0:05:48.530,0:05:51.229 |
| exists. Where there is a skeptic's move
| | in terms of the epsilon-delta definition or |
| the prover has to be prepared
| | rather in terms of this |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:22.240,0:19:29.240 | | 0:05:51.229,0:05:55.160 |
| for anything the skeptic does. All those moves
| | game setup, what we need to do is we need |
| are "for every."
| | to describe a winning |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:30.559,0:19:33.850 | | 0:05:55.160,0:06:01.460 |
| One last one. By the way, this one was called,
| | strategy for the prover. Okay? We need to |
| "You say you want a
| | describe delta in terms of |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:33.850,0:19:36.870 | | 0:06:01.460,0:06:05.240 |
| replay?" Which is basically they're just
| | epsilon. The prover essentially ... the only |
| saying that just one play is
| | move the prover makes is |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:36.870,0:19:40.890 | | 0:06:05.240,0:06:09.130 |
| not good enough. If the statement is actually
| | this choice of delta. Right? The skeptic picked |
| true, the prover should
| | epsilon, the prover |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:40.890,0:19:45.370 | | 0:06:09.130,0:06:12.810 |
| be willing to accept the skeptic ones, the
| | picked delta then the skeptic picks x and |
| reply and say they want to
| | then they judge who won. The |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:45.370,0:19:47.679 | | 0:06:12.810,0:06:15.810 |
| play it again, the prover should say "sure"
| | only choice the prover makes is the choice |
| and "I'm going to win
| | of delta, right? |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:47.679,0:19:53.320 | | 0:06:15.810,0:06:16.979 |
| again." That's what it would mean for
| | KM: Exactly. |
| the limit statement to be true.
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:53.320,0:20:00.320 | | 0:06:16.979,0:06:20.080 |
| One last one. Just kind of pretty similar
| | Vipul: The prover has to specify delta in terms |
| to the one we just saw. Just
| | of epsilon. |
|
| |
|
| 0:20:16.690,0:20:23.690 | | 0:06:20.080,0:06:24.819 |
| a little different.
| | So, here is my strategy. My strategy is I'm |
| | going to choose delta as, |
|
| |
|
| 0:20:39.020,0:20:46.020 | | 0:06:24.819,0:06:29.509 |
| Okay, this one, let's see. We are saying
| | I as a prover is going to choose delta as |
| that the limit as x
| | epsilon over the absolute |
|
| |
|
| 0:20:50.450,0:20:56.900 | | 0:06:29.509,0:06:33.690 |
| approaches zero of sin(1/x) is zero, right?
| | value of x plus 2 [|x + 2|]. Okay? |
| Let's see how we prove
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:20:56.900,0:21:01.409 | | 0:06:33.690,0:06:36.880 |
| this. If the statement true ... well, do you | | Now, what I want to show that this strategy |
| think the statement is
| | works. So, what I'm claiming |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:01.409,0:21:08.409 | | 0:06:36.880,0:06:39.840 |
| true? As x approach to zero, is sin 1 over
| | is that if ... so let me just finish this |
| x approaching zero? So
| | and then you can tell me where |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:13.980,0:21:20.980 | | 0:06:39.840,0:06:43.419 |
| here's the picture of sin(1/x). y-axis. | | I went wrong here, okay? I'm claiming that |
| It's an oscillatory function
| | this strategy works which |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:22.010,0:21:27.870 | | 0:06:43.419,0:06:47.130 |
| and it has this kind of picture. Does it doesn't
| | means I'm claiming that if the skeptic now |
| go to zero as x
| | picks any x which is within |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:27.870,0:21:29.270 | | 0:06:47.130,0:06:54.130 |
| approaches zero?
| | delta distance of 2; the target point, |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:29.270,0:21:30.669 | | 0:06:56.710,0:07:01.490 |
| KM: No.
| | then the function value is within epsilon |
| | distance of 4, the claimed |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:30.669,0:21:35.539 | | 0:07:01.490,0:07:04.080 |
| Vipul: No. So, you said that this statement
| | limit. That's what I want to show. |
| is false, but I'm going to
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:35.539,0:21:38.700 | | 0:07:04.080,0:07:08.300 |
| try to show it's true. Here's how I do
| | Now is that true? Well, here's how I do |
| that. Let's say the skeptic
| | it. I say, I start by |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:38.700,0:21:44.510 | | 0:07:08.300,0:07:13.539 |
| picks epsilon as two, okay? And then the prover
| | taking this expression, I factor it as |
| ... so, the epsilon is | | |x - 2||x + 2|. The absolute |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:44.510,0:21:48.520 | | 0:07:13.539,0:07:16.810 |
| two so that's the interval of width two
| | value of product is the product of the absolute |
| about the game limit zero. The
| | values so this can be |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:48.520,0:21:55.150 | | 0:07:16.810,0:07:21.599 |
| prover picks delta as 1/pi. Whatever x the
| | split like that. Now I say, well, we know |
| skeptic picks, okay?
| | that |x - 2| is less than |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:55.150,0:22:02.150 | | 0:07:21.599,0:07:24.979 |
| Regardless of the x that the
| | delta and this is a positive thing. So we |
| skeptic picks, the function is trapped
| | can write this as less than delta |
| within epsilon of the game limit. Is that
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:10.340,0:22:16.900 | | 0:07:24.979,0:07:31.979 |
| true? Yes, because sin
| | times absolute value x plus 2. Right? And |
| (1/x) is between minus 1 and 1, right? Therefore
| | this delta is epsilon over |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:16.900,0:22:20.100 | | 0:07:35.599,0:07:37.620 |
| since the skeptic
| | |x + 2| and we get epsilon. |
| picked an epsilon of 2, the function value
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:20.100,0:22:24.030 | | 0:07:37.620,0:07:40.460 |
| is completely trapped in
| | So, this thing equals something, less than |
| the interval from -1 to 1, so therefore the
| | something, equals |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:24.030,0:22:27.919 | | 0:07:40.460,0:07:43.580 |
| prover managed to trap it
| | something, equals something, you have a chain |
| within distance of 2 of the claimed limit zero.
| | of things, there's one |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:27.919,0:22:30.970 | | 0:07:43.580,0:07:47.720 |
| Okay? Regardless of what
| | step that you have less than. So overall we |
| the skeptic does, right? It's not just saying
| | get that this expression, |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:30.970,0:22:34.370 | | 0:07:47.720,0:07:53.740 |
| that the prover won the | | this thing is less than epsilon. So, we have |
| game once, it's saying whatever x the skeptic
| | shown that whatever x the |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:34.370,0:22:40.740 | | 0:07:53.740,0:08:00.370 |
| picks the prover can
| | skeptic would pick, the function value lies |
| still win the game. Right? Regardless if the
| | within the epsilon |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:40.740,0:22:43.780 | | 0:08:00.370,0:08:05.030 |
| x is skeptic picks, the
| | distance of the claimed limit. As long as the skeptic picks x within |
| prover picked a delta such that the function
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:43.780,0:22:48.100 | | 0:08:05.030,0:08:09.240 |
| is trapped. It's
| | delta distance of the target point. |
| completely trapped, okay? It's not an issue
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:48.100,0:22:51.130 | | 0:08:09.240,0:08:16.240 |
| of whether the skeptic
| | Does this strategy work? Is this a proof? |
| picks the stupid x. Do you think that this
| | What's wrong with this? |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:51.130,0:22:52.130 | | 0:08:24.270,0:08:31.270 |
| proves the statement?
| | Do you think there's anything wrong |
| | with the algebra I've done here? |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:52.130,0:22:59.130 | | 0:08:33.510,0:08:40.510 |
| KM: No, I mean in this case it still depended | | KM: Well, we said that ... |
| on the epsilon that the
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:01.030,0:23:01.820 | | 0:08:40.910,0:08:47.910 |
| skeptic chose.
| | Vipul: So, is there anything wrong in the |
| | algebra here? This is this, |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:01.820,0:23:04.980 | | 0:08:50.160,0:08:51.740 |
| Vipul: It's still dependent on the epsilon
| | this is less than delta, delta ... So, this |
| that the skeptic chose? So,
| | part |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:04.980,0:23:05.679 | | 0:08:51.740,0:08:52.089 |
| yes, that's exactly the problem.
| | seems fine, right? |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:05.679,0:23:09.370 | | 0:08:52.089,0:08:52.339 |
| So, we proved that the statement -- we prove
| | KM: Yes. |
| that from this part onward
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:09.370,0:23:12.500 | | 0:08:52.330,0:08:55.640 |
| but it still, we didn't prove it for all
| | Vipul: There's nothing wrong in the algebra |
| epsilon, we only prove for
| | here. So, what could be |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:12.500,0:23:16.309 | | 0:08:55.640,0:09:00.310 |
| epsilon is 2, and 2 is a very big number,
| | wrong? Our setup seems fine. If the x value |
| right? Because the
| | is within delta distance |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:16.309,0:23:19.970 | | 0:09:00.310,0:09:03.350 |
| oscillation is all happening between minus
| | of 2 then the function value is within epsilon |
| 1 and 1, and if in fact the
| | distance of 4. That's |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:19.970,0:23:26.970 | | 0:09:03.350,0:09:05.360 |
| skeptic had pick epsilon as 1 or something
| | exactly what we want to prove, right? |
| smaller than 1 then the two
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:27.030,0:23:32.169 | | 0:09:05.360,0:09:11.120 |
| epsilon strip width would not cover the entire
| | So, there's nothing wrong this point onward. |
| -1, +1
| | So, the error happened |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:32.169,0:23:35.490 | | 0:09:11.120,0:09:14.440 |
| interval, and then whatever the prover did
| | somewhere here. What do you think |
| the skeptic could actually
| | was wrong |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:35.490,0:23:39.530 | | 0:09:14.440,0:09:21.160 |
| pick an x and show that it's not trapped.
| | here? In the strategy choice step? What do |
| So, in fact the reason why
| | you think went wrong in the |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:39.530,0:23:43.110 | | 0:09:21.160,0:09:24.010 |
| the prover could win the game from this point
| | strategy choice step? |
| onward is that the
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:43.110,0:23:45.900 | | 0:09:24.010,0:09:28.850 |
| skeptic made of stupid choice of epsilon.
| | Well, okay, so in what order do they play their moves? |
| Okay?
| | Skeptic will choose the epsilon, |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:45.900,0:23:52.289 | | 0:09:28.850,0:09:29.760 |
| In all these situation, all these misconceptions,
| | then? |
| the main problem is,
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:52.289,0:23:58.919 | | 0:09:29.760,0:09:35.130 |
| that we're not ... keeping in mind the order
| | KM: Then the prover chooses delta. |
| which the moves I made
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:58.919,0:24:04.179 | | 0:09:35.130,0:09:36.080 |
| and how much information each claim has at
| | Vipul: Prover chooses delta. Then? |
| the stage where that move
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:24:04.179,0:24:04.789 | | 0:09:36.080,0:09:39.529 |
| is being made.</toggledisplay>
| | KM: Then the skeptic has to choose the x value. |
|
| |
|
| ==Misconceptions==
| | 0:09:39.529,0:09:42.470 |
| | Vipul: x value. So, when the prover is deciding |
| | the strategy, when the |
|
| |
|
| Most misconceptions associated with the formal <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> definition of limit have to do with the ordering of the moves in the game, who's in charge of what move, and what information each person has at the time of making the move. We describe some common misconceptions below.
| | 0:09:42.470,0:09:45.860 |
| | prover is choosing the delta, what information |
| | does the prover have? |
|
| |
|
| <center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=F0r_offAc5M}}</center>
| | 0:09:45.860,0:09:48.410 |
| | KM: He just has the information on epsilon. |
|
| |
|
| Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay>
| | 0:09:48.410,0:09:50.500 |
| 0:00:15.500,0:00:19.140 | | Vipul: Just the information on epsilon. So? |
| Vipul: Okay. This talk is going to be about | |
| certain misconceptions
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:19.140,0:00:22.440 | | 0:09:50.500,0:09:57.060 |
| that people have regarding limits and these | | KM: So, in this case the mistake was that |
| are misconceptions that
| | because he didn't know the x value yet? |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:22.440,0:00:25.840 | | 0:09:57.060,0:10:03.100 |
| people generally acquire after...
| | Vipul: The strategy cannot depend on x. |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:25.840,0:00:29.180 | | 0:10:03.100,0:10:04.800 |
| These are not the misconceptions that
| | KM: Yeah. |
| people have before studying limits,
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:29.180,0:00:32.730 | | 0:10:04.800,0:10:09.790 |
| these are misconceptions you might have after
| | Vipul: So, the prover is picking the |
| studying limits,
| | delta based on x but the |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:32.730,0:00:35.059 | | 0:10:09.790,0:10:12.660 |
| after studying the epsilon delta definition.
| | prover doesn't know x at this stage when |
| | picking the delta. The delta |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:35.059,0:00:38.550 | | 0:10:12.660,0:10:15.910 |
| I'm going to describe these misconceptions
| | that the prover chooses has to be completely |
| in terms of the limit game,
| | a function of epsilon |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:38.550,0:00:41.900 | | 0:10:15.910,0:10:19.680 |
| the prover skeptic game of the limit. Though | | alone, it cannot depend on the future moves |
| the misconceptions | | of the skeptic because the |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:41.900,0:00:45.850 | | 0:10:19.680,0:10:23.700 |
| themselves don't depend on
| | prover cannot read the skeptic's mind. Okay? |
| the understanding of the
| | And doesn't know what the |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:45.850,0:00:49.059 | | 0:10:23.700,0:10:24.800 |
| game but to understand exactly what's
| | skeptic plans to do. |
| happening, it's better to think
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:49.059,0:00:51.010 | | 0:10:24.800,0:10:31.800 |
| of it in terms of the game.
| | So that is the ... that's the proof. I call |
| | this the ... |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:51.010,0:00:55.370 | | 0:10:42.240,0:10:43.040 |
| First recall the definition. So limit as x
| | Can you see what I call this? |
| approaches c of f(x) is a
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:55.370,0:01:01.629 | | 0:10:43.040,0:10:45.399 |
| number L; so c and L are both numbers, real
| | KM: The strongly telepathic prover. |
| numbers. f is a function,
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:01.629,0:01:06.380 | | 0:10:45.399,0:10:51.470 |
| x is approaching c. And we said this is true
| | Vipul: So, do you know what I meant by that? |
| if the following -- for
| | Well, I meant the prover |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:06.380,0:01:10.180 | | 0:10:51.470,0:10:58.470 |
| every epsilon greater than zero, there exists
| | is reading the skeptic's mind. All |
| a delta greater than
| | right? It's called telepathy. |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:10.180,0:01:14.800 | | 0:11:07.769,0:11:10.329 |
| zero such that for all x which are within delta
| |
| distance of c, f(x) is
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:14.800,0:01:17.590 | | 0:11:10.329,0:11:17.329 |
| within epsilon distance of L. Okay?
| | Okay, the next one. |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:17.590,0:01:24.590 | | 0:11:25.589,0:11:30.230 |
| Now, how do we describe this in terms for
| | This one says there's a function defined piecewise. Okay? It's defined |
| limit game?
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:26.530,0:01:33.530 | | 0:11:30.230,0:11:34.829 |
| KM: So, skeptic starts off with the first
| | as g(x) is x when x is rational and zero when |
| part of the definition.
| | x is irrational. So, |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:34.990,0:01:38.189 | | 0:11:34.829,0:11:41.829 |
| Vipul: By picking the epsilon? Okay, that's
| | what would this look like? Well, pictorially, there's a line y |
| the thing written in
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:38.189,0:01:42.939 | | 0:11:42.750,0:11:49.510 |
| black. What's the skeptic trying to do? What's the
| | equals x and there's the x-axis and the |
| goal of the skeptic?
| | graph is just the irrational x |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:42.939,0:01:49.100 | | 0:11:49.510,0:11:52.750 |
| KM: To try and pick an epsilon that would
| | coordinate parts of this line and the rational |
| not work.
| | x coordinate parts of |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:49.100,0:01:53.450 | | 0:11:52.750,0:11:56.350 |
| Vipul: So the goal of the skeptic is to try
| | this line. It's kind of like both these |
| to show that the statement is false.
| | lines but only parts of |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:53.450,0:01:54.100 | | 0:11:56.350,0:11:58.529 |
| KM: Yeah.
| | them. Right? |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:54.100,0:01:57.790 | | 0:11:58.529,0:12:02.079 |
| Vipul: Right? In this case the skeptic should
| | Now we want to show that limit as x approaches |
| try to start by choosing
| | zero of g(x) is |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:57.790,0:02:02.220 | | 0:12:02.079,0:12:06.899 |
| an epsilon that is really [small] -- the goal of
| | zero. So just intuitively, do you think the statement |
| the skeptic is to pick an
| | is true? As x goes |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:02.220,0:02:04.500 | | 0:12:06.899,0:12:09.910 |
| epsilon that's really small, what is the
| | to zero, does this function go to zero? |
| skeptic trying to challenge
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:04.500,0:02:07.920 | | 0:12:09.910,0:12:10.610 |
| the prover into doing by picking the epsilon?
| | KM: Yes. |
| The skeptic is trying to
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:07.920,0:02:11.959 | | 0:12:10.610,0:12:17.610 |
| challenge the prover into trapping the function
| | Vipul: Because both the pieces are going to |
| close to L when x is
| | zero. That's the intuition. Okay? |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:11.959,0:02:17.040 | | 0:12:20.610,0:12:24.089 |
| close to c. And the way the skeptic specifies
| | This is the proof we have here. So the idea |
| what is meant by "close to L" is
| | is we again think about it |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:17.040,0:02:19.860 | | 0:12:24.089,0:12:27.790 |
| by the choice of epsilon. Okay?
| | in terms of the game. The skeptic first picks |
| | the epsilon, okay? Now |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:19.860,0:02:24.900 | | 0:12:27.790,0:12:30.779 |
| When picking epsilon the skeptic is
| | the prover has to choose the delta, but |
| effectively picking this interval, L -
| | there are really two cases |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:24.900,0:02:30.700 | | 0:12:30.779,0:12:35.200 |
| epsilon, L + epsilon). Okay? And basically
| | on x, right? x rational and x irrational. |
| that's what the skeptic is
| | So the prover chooses the |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:30.700,0:02:33.680 | | 0:12:35.200,0:12:39.459 |
| doing. The prover is then picking a delta.
| | delta based on whether the x is rational |
| What is the goal of the
| | or irrational, so if |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:33.680,0:02:36.239 | | 0:12:39.459,0:12:43.880 |
| prover in picking the delta? The prover is
| | the x is rational then the prover just picks |
| saying, "Here's how I can
| | delta equals epsilon, and |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:36.239,0:02:40.099 | | 0:12:43.880,0:12:48.339 |
| trap the function within that interval. I'm
| | that's good enough for rational x, right? |
| going to pick a delta and
| | Because for rational x the |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:40.099,0:02:43.520 | | 0:12:48.339,0:12:51.410 |
| my claim is that if the x value within delta distance of c, except the
| | slope of the line is one so picking delta |
| | as epsilon is good enough. |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:43.520,0:02:47.000 | | 0:12:51.410,0:12:55.760 |
| point c itself, so my claim is for any x value
| | For irrational x, if the skeptic's planning |
| there the function is
| | to choose an irrational x |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:47.000,0:02:48.260 | | 0:12:55.760,0:12:59.730 |
| trapped in here."
| | then the prover can just choose any delta |
| | actually. Like just fix |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:48.260,0:02:52.819 | | 0:12:59.730,0:13:03.880 |
| So, the prover picks the delta and then the
| | a delta in advance. Like delta is one or |
| skeptic tries to
| | something. Because if x is |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:52.819,0:02:56.709 | | 0:13:03.880,0:13:10.430 |
| test the prover's claim by picking an x
| | irrational then it's like a constant function |
| | and therefore, like, for |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:56.709,0:02:59.670 | | 0:13:10.430,0:13:14.970 |
| which is within the interval specified by
| | any delta the function is trapped within epsilon |
| the prover and then they | | distance of the claimed |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:59.670,0:03:03.379 | | 0:13:14.970,0:13:16.970 |
| both check whether f(x) is within epsilon
| | limit zero. Okay? |
| distance [of L]. If it is
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:03.379,0:03:07.940 | | 0:13:16.970,0:13:19.950 |
| then the prover wins and if it is not, if
| | So the prover makes two cases based |
| this [|f(x) - L|]is not less
| | on whether the skeptic is going |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:07.940,0:03:09.989 | | 0:13:19.950,0:13:26.950 |
| than epsilon then the skeptic wins. Okay?
| | to pick a rational or an irrational x |
| | and based on that if |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:09.989,0:03:13.659 | | 0:13:27.040,0:13:30.730 |
| So, the skeptic is picking the neighborhood
| | it's rational this is the prover's strategy, |
| of the target point which
| | if it's irrational then |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:13.659,0:03:17.030 | | 0:13:30.730,0:13:34.050 |
| in this case is just the open interval of
| | the prover can just pick any delta. |
| radius epsilon, the prover
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:17.030,0:03:21.940 | | 0:13:34.050,0:13:37.630 |
| is picking the delta which is effectively the
| | Can you tell me what's wrong with this proof? |
| neighborhood of the domain
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:21.940,0:03:25.760 | | 0:13:37.630,0:13:44.630 |
| point except the point c as I've said open
| | KM: So, he [the prover] is still kind of |
| interval (c - delta, c +
| | basing it on what the skeptic is going to |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:25.760,0:03:30.870 | | 0:13:44.750,0:13:45.800 |
| delta) excluding c and then the skeptic picks
| | pick next. |
| an x in the neighborhood
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:30.870,0:03:35.700 | | 0:13:45.800,0:13:49.100 |
| specified by prover and if the function value
| | Vipul: Okay. It's actually pretty much the |
| is within the interval
| | same problem [as the |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:35.700,0:03:38.830 | | 0:13:49.100,0:13:55.449 |
| specified by the skeptic then the prover wins.
| | preceding one], in a somewhat milder form. |
| | The prover is making |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:38.830,0:03:41.989 | | 0:13:55.449,0:13:59.959 |
| Now, what does it mean to say the statement
| | cases based on what the skeptic is going to |
| is true in terms of the
| | do next, and choosing a |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:41.989,0:03:43.080 | | 0:13:59.959,0:14:01.940 |
| game?
| | strategy according to that. But the prover |
| | doesn't actually know what |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:43.080,0:03:50.080 | | 0:14:01.940,0:14:05.089 |
| KM: So, it means that the prover is always
| | the skeptic is going to do next, so the prover |
| going to win the game. | | should actually have a |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:51.849,0:03:55.629 | | 0:14:05.089,0:14:08.970 |
| Vipul: Well, sort of. I mean the prover may
| | single strategy that works in both cases. |
| play it stupidly. The
| | So cases will be made to |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:55.629,0:04:00.750 | | 0:14:08.970,0:14:12.209 |
| prover can win the game if the prover plays
| | prove that the strategy works but the prover |
| well. So, the prover has a
| | has to have a single |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:00.750,0:04:03.230 | | 0:14:12.209,0:14:12.459 |
| winning strategy for the game. Okay?
| | strategy. |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:05.230,0:04:10.299 | | 0:14:12.449,0:14:15.370 |
| The statement is true if the prover has a
| | Now in this case the correct way of doing the proof is just, the |
| winning strategy for the
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:10.299,0:04:14.090 | | 0:14:15.370,0:14:18.779 |
| game and that means the prover has a way
| | prover can pick delta as epsilon because that |
| of playing the game such that
| | will work in both cases. |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:14.090,0:04:17.320 | | 0:14:18.779,0:14:20.019 |
| whatever the skeptic does the prover is going
| | KM: Exactly. |
| to win the game. The
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:17.320,0:04:20.789 | | 0:14:20.019,0:14:23.320 |
| statement is considered false if the skeptic
| | Vipul: Yeah. But in general if you have two |
| has a winning strategy
| | different piece |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:20.789,0:04:23.370 | | 0:14:23.320,0:14:26.579 |
| for the game which means the skeptic has a
| | definitions then the way you would do it so |
| way of playing so that | | you would pick delta as |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:23.370,0:04:25.729 | | 0:14:26.579,0:14:30.300 |
| whatever the prover does the skeptic can win
| | the min [minimum] of the deltas that work in |
| the game. | | the two different pieces, |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:25.729,0:04:27.599 | | 0:14:30.300,0:14:32.910 |
| Or if the game doesn't make sense at all
| | because you want to make sure that |
| ... | | both cases are covered. But |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:27.599,0:04:29.460 | | 0:14:32.910,0:14:36.730 |
| maybe the function is not defined on
| | the point is you have to do that -- take |
| | the min use that rather than |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:29.460,0:04:31.050 | | 0:14:36.730,0:14:39.730 |
| the immediate left and right of c. | | just say, "I'm going to choose my delta |
| | based on what the skeptic is |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:31.050,0:04:32.370 | | 0:14:39.730,0:14:42.589 |
| If the function isn't defined then we
| | going to move next." Okay? |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:32.370,0:04:34.160 | | 0:14:42.589,0:14:49.120 |
| cannot even make sense of the statement.
| | So this is a milder form of the same |
| | misconception that that was there in |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:34.160,0:04:36.990 | | 0:14:49.120,0:14:56.120 |
| Either way -- the skeptic has a winning strategy
| | the previous example we saw. |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:36.990,0:04:37.770 | | 0:15:04.620,0:15:11.620 |
| or the game doesn't make sense --
| | So, this is what I call the mildly telepathic |
| | prover, right? The |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:41.770,0:04:43.470 | | 0:15:14.970,0:15:18.579 |
| then the statement is false.
| | prover is still behaving telepathically |
| | predicting the skeptic's future |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:43.470,0:04:47.660 | | 0:15:18.579,0:15:23.740 |
| If the prover has a winning strategy
| | moves but it's not so bad. The prover is |
| the statement is true.
| | just making, like, doing a |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:47.660,0:04:54.660 | | 0:15:23.740,0:15:25.470 |
| With this background in mind let's look
| | coin toss type of telepathy. Whereas in the |
| at some common misconceptions.
| | earlier one is prover is |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:56.540,0:05:03.540 | | 0:15:25.470,0:15:30.790 |
| Okay. Let's say we are trying to prove that
| | actually, deciding exactly what x the skeptic |
| the limit as x approaches
| | would pick. But it's still |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:27.620,0:05:31.530 | | 0:15:30.790,0:15:32.790 |
| 2 of x^2 is 4, so is that statement correct?
| | the same problem and the reason why I think |
| The statement we're
| | people will have this |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:31.530,0:05:32.060 | | 0:15:32.790,0:15:36.329 |
| trying to prove?
| | misconception is because they don't think |
| | about it in terms of the |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:32.060,0:05:32.680 | | 0:15:36.329,0:15:38.970 |
| KM: Yes.
| | sequence in which the moves are made, and |
| | the information that each |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:32.680,0:05:35.960 | | 0:15:38.970,0:15:45.970 |
| Vipul: That's correct. Because in fact x^2
| | party has at any given stage of the game. |
| is a continuous function
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:35.960,0:05:40.160 | | 0:15:50.889,0:15:57.889 |
| and the limit of a continuous function at
| | Let's do this one. |
| the point is just the
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:40.160,0:05:43.030 | | 0:16:10.930,0:16:15.259 |
| value at the point and 2^2 is 4. But we're
| | So, this is a limit claim, right? It says |
| going to now try to prove
| | that the limit as x approaches |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:43.030,0:05:48.530 | | 0:16:15.259,0:16:22.259 |
| this formally using the epsilon-delta definition
| | 1 of 2x is 2, okay? How do we go about showing |
| of limit, okay? Now | | this? Well, the idea is |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:48.530,0:05:51.229 | | 0:16:23.699,0:16:27.990 |
| in terms of the epsilon-delta definition or
| | let's play the game, right? Let's say |
| rather in terms of this
| | the skeptic picks epsilon as |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:51.229,0:05:55.160 | | 0:16:27.990,0:16:34.990 |
| game setup, what we need to do is we need
| | 0.1, okay? The prover picks delta as 0.05. |
| to describe a winning
| | The skeptic is when picking |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:55.160,0:06:01.460 | | 0:16:35.139,0:16:38.790 |
| strategy for the prover. Okay? We need to
| | epsilon as 0.1, the skeptic is saying, "Please |
| describe delta in terms of
| | trap the function |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:01.460,0:06:05.240 | | 0:16:38.790,0:16:43.800 |
| epsilon. The prover essentially ... the only
| | between 1.9 and 2.1. Okay? Find the delta |
| move the prover makes is
| | small enough so that the |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:05.240,0:06:09.130 | | 0:16:43.800,0:16:48.389 |
| this choice of delta. Right? The skeptic picked
| | function value is trapped between 1.9 and |
| epsilon, the prover
| | 2.1. The prover picks delta |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:09.130,0:06:12.810 | | 0:16:48.389,0:16:55.389 |
| picked delta then the skeptic picks x and
| | as 0.05 which means the prover is now getting |
| then they judge who won. The
| | the input value trapped |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:12.810,0:06:15.810 | | 0:16:57.850,0:17:04.850 |
| only choice the prover makes is the choice
| | between 0.95 and 1.05. That's 1 plus minus |
| of delta, right?
| | this thing. And now the |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:15.810,0:06:16.979 | | 0:17:05.439,0:17:09.070 |
| KM: Exactly.
| | prover is claiming that if the x value is |
| | within this much distance of |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:16.979,0:06:20.080 | | 0:17:09.070,0:17:13.959 |
| Vipul: The prover has to specify delta in terms
| | 1 except the value equal to 1, then the function |
| of epsilon.
| | value is within 0.1 |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:20.080,0:06:24.819 | | 0:17:13.959,0:17:17.630 |
| So, here is my strategy. My strategy is I'm | | distance of 2. So, the skeptic tries picking |
| going to choose delta as,
| | x within the interval |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:24.819,0:06:29.509 | | 0:17:17.630,0:17:23.049 |
| I as a prover is going to choose delta as
| | specified by the prover, so maybe the skeptic |
| epsilon over the absolute
| | picks 0.97 which is |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:29.509,0:06:33.690 | | 0:17:23.049,0:17:26.380 |
| value of x plus 2 [|x + 2|]. Okay?
| | within 0.05 distance of 1. |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:33.690,0:06:36.880 | | 0:17:26.380,0:17:31.570 |
| Now, what I want to show that this strategy
| | And then they check that 2x [the function f(x)] is |
| works. So, what I'm claiming
| | 1.94, that is at the distance of 0.06 |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:36.880,0:06:39.840 | | 0:17:31.570,0:17:38.570 |
| is that if ... so let me just finish this
| | from 2. So, it's within 0.1 of the claimed |
| and then you can tell me where
| | limit 2. So who won the game? |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:39.840,0:06:43.419 | | 0:17:38.780,0:17:42.650 |
| I went wrong here, okay? I'm claiming that
| | If the thing is within the interval then who |
| this strategy works which
| | wins? |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:43.419,0:06:47.130 | | 0:17:42.650,0:17:43.320 |
| means I'm claiming that if the skeptic now
| | KM: The prover. |
| picks any x which is within
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:47.130,0:06:54.130 | | 0:17:43.320,0:17:46.720 |
| delta distance of 2; the target point,
| | Vipul: The prover wins, right? So, the prover |
| | won the game so therefore |
|
| |
|
| 0:06:56.710,0:07:01.490 | | 0:17:46.720,0:17:52.100 |
| then the function value is within epsilon
| | this limit statement is true, right? So, what's |
| distance of 4, the claimed
| | wrong with this as a |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:01.490,0:07:04.080 | | 0:17:52.100,0:17:57.370 |
| limit. That's what I want to show. | | proof that the limit statement is true? How |
| | is this not a proof that |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:04.080,0:07:08.300 | | 0:17:57.370,0:18:03.870 |
| Now is that true? Well, here's how I do
| | the limit statement is true? This what I've |
| it. I say, I start by
| | written here, why is that |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:08.300,0:07:13.539 | | 0:18:03.870,0:18:05.990 |
| taking this expression, I factor it as
| | not a proof that the limit statement is true? |
| |x - 2||x + 2|. The absolute
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:13.539,0:07:16.810 | | 0:18:05.990,0:18:11.960 |
| value of product is the product of the absolute
| | KM: Because it's only an example for the |
| values so this can be
| | specific choice of epsilon and x. |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:16.810,0:07:21.599 | | 0:18:11.960,0:18:16.200 |
| split like that. Now I say, well, we know
| | Vipul: Yes, exactly. So, it's like a single |
| that |x - 2| is less than
| | play of the game, the |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:21.599,0:07:24.979 | | 0:18:16.200,0:18:20.470 |
| delta and this is a positive thing. So we
| | prover wins, but the limit statement doesn't |
| can write this as less than delta
| | just say that the prover |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:24.979,0:07:31.979 | | 0:18:20.470,0:18:24.380 |
| times absolute value x plus 2. Right? And
| | wins the game, it says the prover has a winning |
| this delta is epsilon over
| | strategy. It says that |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:35.599,0:07:37.620 | | 0:18:24.380,0:18:27.660 |
| |x + 2| and we get epsilon.
| | the prover can win the game regardless of |
| | how the skeptic plays; |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:37.620,0:07:40.460 | | 0:18:27.660,0:18:31.070 |
| So, this thing equals something, less than
| | there's a way for the prover to do that. |
| something, equals
| | This just gives one example |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:40.460,0:07:43.580 | | 0:18:31.070,0:18:34.640 |
| something, equals something, you have a chain
| | where the prover won the game, but it doesn't |
| of things, there's one
| | tell us that regardless |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:43.580,0:07:47.720 | | 0:18:34.640,0:18:37.280 |
| step that you have less than. So overall we
| | of the epsilon the skeptic picks the prover |
| get that this expression,
| | can pick a delta such that |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:47.720,0:07:53.740 | | 0:18:37.280,0:18:41.090 |
| this thing is less than epsilon. So, we have
| | regardless of the x the skeptic picks, the |
| shown that whatever x the
| | function is within the |
|
| |
|
| 0:07:53.740,0:08:00.370 | | 0:18:41.090,0:18:45.530 |
| skeptic would pick, the function value lies
| | thing. So that's the issue here. Okay? |
| within the epsilon
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:00.370,0:08:05.030 | | 0:18:45.530,0:18:51.160 |
| distance of the claimed limit. As long as the skeptic picks x within
| | Now you notice -- I'm sure you've noticed |
| | this but the way the game and the |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:05.030,0:08:09.240 | | 0:18:51.160,0:18:58.160 |
| delta distance of the target point.
| | limit definition. The way the limit definition |
| | goes, you see that all |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:09.240,0:08:16.240 | | 0:18:59.870,0:19:04.260 |
| Does this strategy work? Is this a proof?
| | the moves of the skeptic we write "for every" |
| What's wrong with this?
| | "for all." Right? And |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:24.270,0:08:31.270 | | 0:19:04.260,0:19:07.390 |
| Do you think there's anything wrong
| | for all the moves of the prover we write "there |
| with the algebra I've done here?
| | exists." Why do we do |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:33.510,0:08:40.510 | | 0:19:07.390,0:19:11.140 |
| KM: Well, we said that ...
| | that? Because we are trying to get a winning |
| | strategy for the prover, |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:40.910,0:08:47.910 | | 0:19:11.140,0:19:14.309 |
| Vipul: So, is there anything wrong in the
| | so the prover controls his own moves. Okay? |
| algebra here? This is this,
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:50.160,0:08:51.740 | | 0:19:14.309,0:19:15.250 |
| this is less than delta, delta ... So, this
| | KM: Exactly. |
| part
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:51.740,0:08:52.089 | | 0:19:15.250,0:19:18.630 |
| seems fine, right?
| | Vipul: So, therefore wherever it's a prover |
| | move it will be a there |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:52.089,0:08:52.339 | | 0:19:18.630,0:19:22.240 |
| KM: Yes.
| | exists. Where there is a skeptic's move |
| | the prover has to be prepared |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:52.330,0:08:55.640 | | 0:19:22.240,0:19:29.240 |
| Vipul: There's nothing wrong in the algebra
| | for anything the skeptic does. All those moves |
| here. So, what could be
| | are "for every." |
|
| |
|
| 0:08:55.640,0:09:00.310 | | 0:19:30.559,0:19:33.850 |
| wrong? Our setup seems fine. If the x value
| | One last one. By the way, this one was called, |
| is within delta distance
| | "You say you want a |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:00.310,0:09:03.350 | | 0:19:33.850,0:19:36.870 |
| of 2 then the function value is within epsilon
| | replay?" Which is basically they're just |
| distance of 4. That's
| | saying that just one play is |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:03.350,0:09:05.360 | | 0:19:36.870,0:19:40.890 |
| exactly what we want to prove, right?
| | not good enough. If the statement is actually |
| | true, the prover should |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:05.360,0:09:11.120 | | 0:19:40.890,0:19:45.370 |
| So, there's nothing wrong this point onward.
| | be willing to accept it if the skeptic wants a |
| So, the error happened
| | replay and say they want to |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:11.120,0:09:14.440 | | 0:19:45.370,0:19:47.679 |
| somewhere here. What do you think
| | play it again, the prover should say "sure" |
| was wrong
| | and "I'm going to win |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:14.440,0:09:21.160 | | 0:19:47.679,0:19:53.320 |
| here? In the strategy choice step? What do
| | again." That's what it would mean for |
| you think went wrong in the
| | the limit statement to be true. |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:21.160,0:09:24.010 | | 0:19:53.320,0:20:00.320 |
| strategy choice step?
| | One last one. Just kind of pretty similar |
| | to the one we just saw. But with |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:24.010,0:09:28.850 | | 0:20:16.690,0:20:23.690 |
| Well, okay, so in what order do they play their moves?
| | a little twist. |
| Skeptic will choose the epsilon,
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:28.850,0:09:29.760 | | 0:20:39.020,0:20:46.020 |
| then?
| | Okay, this one, let's see. We are saying |
| | that the limit as x |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:29.760,0:09:35.130 | | 0:20:50.450,0:20:56.900 |
| KM: Then the prover chooses delta.
| | approaches zero of sin(1/x) is zero, right? |
| | Let's see how we prove |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:35.130,0:09:36.080 | | 0:20:56.900,0:21:01.409 |
| Vipul: Prover chooses delta. Then?
| | this. If the statement true ... well, do you |
| | think the statement is |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:36.080,0:09:39.529 | | 0:21:01.409,0:21:08.409 |
| KM: Then the skeptic has to choose the x value.
| | true? As x approach to zero, is sin 1 over |
| | x approaching zero? So |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:39.529,0:09:42.470 | | 0:21:13.980,0:21:20.980 |
| Vipul: x value. So, when the prover is deciding
| | here's the picture of sin(1/x). y-axis. |
| the strategy, when the
| | It's an oscillatory function |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:42.470,0:09:45.860 | | 0:21:22.010,0:21:27.870 |
| prover is choosing the delta, what information
| | and it has this kind of picture. Does it doesn't |
| does the prover have?
| | go to zero as x |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:45.860,0:09:48.410 | | 0:21:27.870,0:21:29.270 |
| KM: He just has the information on epsilon.
| | approaches zero? |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:48.410,0:09:50.500 | | 0:21:29.270,0:21:30.669 |
| Vipul: Just the information on epsilon. So?
| | KM: No. |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:50.500,0:09:57.060 | | 0:21:30.669,0:21:35.539 |
| KM: So, in this case the mistake was that
| | Vipul: No. So, you said that this statement |
| because he didn't know the x value yet?
| | is false, but I'm going to |
|
| |
|
| 0:09:57.060,0:10:03.100 | | 0:21:35.539,0:21:38.700 |
| Vipul: The strategy cannot depend on x.
| | try to show it's true. Here's how I do |
| | that. Let's say the skeptic |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:03.100,0:10:04.800 | | 0:21:38.700,0:21:44.510 |
| KM: Yeah.
| | picks epsilon as two, okay? And then the prover |
| | ... so, the epsilon is |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:04.800,0:10:09.790 | | 0:21:44.510,0:21:48.520 |
| Vipul: So, the prover is picking the
| | two so that's the interval of width two |
| delta based on x but the
| | about the game limit zero. The |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:09.790,0:10:12.660 | | 0:21:48.520,0:21:55.150 |
| prover doesn't know x at this stage when | | prover picks delta as 1/pi. Whatever x the |
| picking the delta. The delta
| | skeptic picks, okay? |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:12.660,0:10:15.910 | | 0:21:55.150,0:22:02.150 |
| that the prover chooses has to be completely | | Regardless of the x that the |
| a function of epsilon
| | skeptic picks, the function is trapped |
| | within epsilon of the game limit. Is that |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:15.910,0:10:19.680 | | 0:22:10.340,0:22:16.900 |
| alone, it cannot depend on the future moves
| | true? Yes, because sin |
| of the skeptic because the
| | (1/x) is between minus 1 and 1, right? Therefore |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:19.680,0:10:23.700 | | 0:22:16.900,0:22:20.100 |
| prover cannot read the skeptic's mind. Okay?
| | since the skeptic |
| And doesn't know what the
| | picked an epsilon of 2, the function value |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:23.700,0:10:24.800 | | 0:22:20.100,0:22:24.030 |
| skeptic plans to do.
| | is completely trapped in |
| | the interval from -1 to 1, so therefore the |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:24.800,0:10:31.800 | | 0:22:24.030,0:22:27.919 |
| So that is the ... that's the proof. I call
| | prover managed to trap it |
| this the ...
| | within distance of 2 of the claimed limit zero. |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:42.240,0:10:43.040 | | 0:22:27.919,0:22:30.970 |
| Can you see what I call this?
| | Okay? Regardless of what |
| | the skeptic does, right? It's not just saying |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:43.040,0:10:45.399 | | 0:22:30.970,0:22:34.370 |
| KM: The strongly telepathic prover.
| | that the prover won the |
| | game once, it's saying whatever x the skeptic |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:45.399,0:10:51.470 | | 0:22:34.370,0:22:40.740 |
| Vipul: So, do you know what I meant by that?
| | picks the prover can |
| Well, I meant the prover
| | still win the game. Right? Regardless if the |
|
| |
|
| 0:10:51.470,0:10:58.470 | | 0:22:40.740,0:22:43.780 |
| is reading the skeptic's mind. All
| | x the skeptic picks, the |
| right? It's called telepathy.
| | prover picked a delta such that the function |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:07.769,0:11:10.329 | | 0:22:43.780,0:22:48.100 |
| | is trapped. It's |
| | completely trapped, okay? It's not an issue |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:10.329,0:11:17.329 | | 0:22:48.100,0:22:51.130 |
| Okay, the next one.
| | of whether the skeptic |
| | picked a stupid x. Do you think that this |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:25.589,0:11:30.230 | | 0:22:51.130,0:22:52.130 |
| This one says there's a function defined piecewise. Okay? It's defined
| | proves the statement? |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:30.230,0:11:34.829 | | 0:22:52.130,0:22:59.130 |
| as g(x) is x when x is rational and zero when
| | KM: No, I mean in this case it still depended |
| x is irrational. So,
| | on the epsilon that the |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:34.829,0:11:41.829 | | 0:23:01.030,0:23:01.820 |
| what would this look like? Well, pictorially, there's a line y
| | skeptic chose. |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:42.750,0:11:49.510 | | 0:23:01.820,0:23:04.980 |
| equals x and there's the x-axis and the
| | Vipul: It's still dependent on the epsilon |
| graph is just the irrational x
| | that the skeptic chose? So, |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:49.510,0:11:52.750 | | 0:23:04.980,0:23:05.679 |
| coordinate parts of this line and the rational
| | yes, that's exactly the problem. |
| x coordinate parts of
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:52.750,0:11:56.350 | | 0:23:05.679,0:23:09.370 |
| this line. It's kind of like both these | | So, we proved that the statement -- we prove |
| lines but only parts of
| | that from this part onward |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:56.350,0:11:58.529 | | 0:23:09.370,0:23:12.500 |
| them. Right?
| | but it still, we didn't prove it for all |
| | epsilon, we only prove for |
|
| |
|
| 0:11:58.529,0:12:02.079 | | 0:23:12.500,0:23:16.309 |
| Now we want to show that limit as x approaches
| | epsilon is 2, and 2 is a very big number, |
| zero of g(x) is
| | right? Because the |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:02.079,0:12:06.899 | | 0:23:16.309,0:23:19.970 |
| zero. So just intuitively, do you think the statement
| | oscillation is all happening between minus |
| is true? As x goes
| | 1 and 1, and if in fact the |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:06.899,0:12:09.910 | | 0:23:19.970,0:23:26.970 |
| to zero, does this function go to zero?
| | skeptic had pick epsilon as 1 or something |
| | smaller than 1 then the two |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:09.910,0:12:10.610 | | 0:23:27.030,0:23:32.169 |
| KM: Yes.
| | epsilon strip width would not cover the entire |
| | -1, +1 |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:10.610,0:12:17.610 | | 0:23:32.169,0:23:35.490 |
| Vipul: Because both the pieces are going to
| | interval, and then whatever the prover did |
| zero. That's the intuition. Okay?
| | the skeptic could actually |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:20.610,0:12:24.089 | | 0:23:35.490,0:23:39.530 |
| This is the proof we have here. So the idea
| | pick an x and show that it's not trapped. |
| is we again think about it
| | So, in fact the reason why |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:24.089,0:12:27.790 | | 0:23:39.530,0:23:43.110 |
| in terms of the game. The skeptic first picks
| | the prover could win the game from this point |
| the epsilon, okay? Now | | onward is that the |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:27.790,0:12:30.779 | | 0:23:43.110,0:23:45.900 |
| the prover has to choose the delta, but
| | skeptic made a stupid choice of epsilon. |
| there are really two cases
| | Okay? |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:30.779,0:12:35.200 | | 0:23:45.900,0:23:52.289 |
| on x, right? x rational and x irrational.
| | In all these situation, all these misconceptions, |
| So the prover chooses the
| | the main problem is, |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:35.200,0:12:39.459 | | 0:23:52.289,0:23:58.919 |
| delta based on whether the x is rational
| | that we're not ... keeping in mind the order |
| or irrational, so if
| | which the moves I made |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:39.459,0:12:43.880 | | 0:23:58.919,0:24:04.179 |
| the x is rational then the prover just picks | | and how much information each claim has at |
| delta equals epsilon, and
| | the stage where that move |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:43.880,0:12:48.339 | | 0:24:04.179,0:24:04.789 |
| that's good enough for rational x, right?
| | is being made. |
| Because for rational x the
| | </toggledisplay> |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:48.339,0:12:51.410
| | ===Strongly telepathic prover=== |
| slope of the line is one so picking delta
| |
| as epsilon is good enough.
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:51.410,0:12:55.760
| | ''Spot the error in this'': |
| For irrational x, if the skeptic's planning
| |
| to choose an irrational x
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:55.760,0:12:59.730 | | {{quotation|Consider the limit problem <math>\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 2} x^2 = 4</math>. The <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> proof corresponding to this problem would involve a game between a prover and a skeptic. To show that the limit statement is true, it suffices to exhibit a winning strategy for the prover for the game. The strategy is as follows. Pick <math>\delta = \frac{\varepsilon}{|x + 2|}</math>. Let's prove that this works.<br><br>''Specific claim'': For any skeptic-picked <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, if the prover picks <math>\delta > 0</math> such that <math>\delta = \varepsilon/|x + 2|</math>, then regardless of the <math>x</math> that the skeptic picks with <math>0 < |x - 2| < \delta</math>, we have <math>|x^2 - 4| < \varepsilon</math>.<br><br>''Proof of claim'': We have: <br><math>|x^2 - 4| = |x - 2||x + 2| < \delta|x + 2| = \frac{\varepsilon}{|x + 2|} |x + 2| = \varepsilon</math>}} |
| then the prover can just choose any delta | |
| actually. Like just fix
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:12:59.730,0:13:03.880 | | The error is as follows: <toggledisplay>Recall the sequence of moves made in the game. First, the skeptic picks <math>\varepsilon > 0 </math>. Then, the prover picks <math>\delta > 0</math>. ''Then'', the skeptic picks a test value of <math>x</math> to challenge the prover's claim of the function being trapped. In particular, this means that at the stage that the prover picks the value of <math>\delta</math>, the prover is ''unaware'' of the value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to pick. Hence, the prover's strategy for choosing <math>\delta</math> cannot use <math>x</math>. Rather, the prover must have a strategy for <math>\delta</math> purely in terms of <math>\varepsilon</math>, which is the only piece of information known to the prover at that stage in the game. |
| a delta in advance. Like delta is one or | |
| something. Because if x is
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:03.880,0:13:10.430
| | This also explains why we called this error the ''strongly telepathic prover'', i.e., it involved the prover reading the skeptic's mind about future planned moves, which is impermissible. |
| irrational then it's like a constant function
| |
| and therefore, like, for
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:10.430,0:13:14.970
| | Although this strategy is wrong, it can be fixed to get a correct strategy, i.e., this is the right way to ''start'' thinking about how this type of problem could be attacked. What the prover needs to do is pick a choice of <math>\delta</math> that works for all <math>x</math> that the skeptic can pick in the constrained interval. The algebra done here provides some guidelines on how the prover can make such a choice, but another idea, namely, the idea of a ''cut-off value'', is needed to complete the strategy.</toggledisplay> |
| any delta the function is trapped within epsilon
| |
| distance of the claimed
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:14.970,0:13:16.970
| | ===Mildly telepathic prover=== |
| limit zero. Okay?
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:16.970,0:13:19.950
| | ''Spot the error in this'': |
| So the prover makes two cases based
| |
| on whether the skeptic is going
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:19.950,0:13:26.950 | | {{quotation|Consider the limit problem: <br><math>g(x) = \left \lbrace \begin{array}{ll} x, & x \text{ rational } \\ 0, & x \text{ irrational }\\\end{array}\right.</math><br>We want to show that <math>\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 0} g(x) = 0</math><br>For this game, we need to exhibit a winning strategy for the prover. The winning strategy is as follows. The skeptic first chooses <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>. The prover now makes two cases. If the skeptic is planning to pick a rational value of <math>x</math>, then the prover chooses the strategy <math>\delta = \varepsilon</math>. If the skeptic is planning to choose an irrational value of <math>x</math>, then the prover can pick any <math>\delta</math>.<br>Clearly, the prover's strategy works in both cases, so we have a winning strategy.}} |
| to pick a rational or an irrational x | |
| and based on that if
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:27.040,0:13:30.730 | | Th error is as follows: <toggledisplay>Recall the sequence of moves made in the game. First, the skeptic picks <math>\varepsilon > 0 </math>. Then, the prover picks <math>\delta > 0</math>. ''Then'', the skeptic picks a test value of <math>x</math> to challenge the prover's claim of the function being trapped. In particular, this means that at the stage that the prover picks the value of <math>\delta</math>, the prover is ''unaware'' of the value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to pick. Hence, the prover's strategy for choosing <math>\delta</math> cannot rely on specifics about what <math>x</math> the skeptic plans to choose. |
| it's rational this is the prover's strategy,
| |
| if it's irrational then
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:30.730,0:13:34.050
| | This error is similar to the preceding error. Both involve impermissible telepathy on the prover's part in reading the skeptic's mind. The ''strongly telepathic prover'' error is more severe in the sense that it involves the prover reading the exact value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to play, whereas the ''mildly telepathic prover'' error only involves the prover guessing the ''type'' of value (rational or irrational) that the skeptic plans to play. |
| the prover can just pick any delta. | |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:34.050,0:13:37.630
| | The fix for the mildly telepathic prover error is that the prover chooses a ''combined'' strategy that ''simultaneously'' works for both eventualities. In this situation, the strategy <math>\delta = \varepsilon</math> works for both situations (rational and irrational <math>x</math>). In general, for a function with two piece definitions for rational and irrational points in the domain, we need to take the ''min'' of the <math>\delta</math>-strategies that work for the definitions individually. A similar approach works for different definitions on the left and right.</toggledisplay> |
| Can you tell me what's wrong with this proof?
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:37.630,0:13:44.630
| | ===You say you want a replay?=== |
| KM: So, he [the prover] is still kind of
| |
| basing it on what the skeptic is going to
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:44.750,0:13:45.800
| | ''Spot the error in this'': |
| pick next.
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:45.800,0:13:49.100 | | {{quotation|Consider the limit problem <math>\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 1} 2x = 2</math>. Let's think of this in terms of an <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> game. The skeptic begins by picking <math>\varepsilon = 0.1</math>. The prover chooses <math>\delta = 0.05</math>. The skeptic now chooses <math>x = 0.97</math>. This value of <math>x</math> is within the <math>\delta</math>-distance of <math>1</math>. It's now checked that <math>2x = 1.94</math> is within <math>\varepsilon</math>-distance of the claimed limit <math>2</math>. The prover has thus won the game, and we have established the truth of the limit statement.}} |
| Vipul: Okay. It's actually pretty much the
| |
| same problem [as the
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:49.100,0:13:55.449
| | The error is as follows: <toggledisplay>This involves ''only one'' play of the <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> limit game. The prover did win this play of the game. However, for us to declare the limit statement to be true, we need to establish that the prover has a ''winning strategy'' for the game, which means we need to demonstrate how the prover would pick a <math>\delta</math> in terms of each choice of <math>\varepsilon</math> (preferably by specifying <math>\delta</math> explicitly as a function of <math>\varepsilon</math>) and then show that the strategy works for all <math>x</math> within <math>\delta</math>-distance of the point on the domain side. |
| preceding one], in a somewhat milder form.
| |
| The prover is making
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:55.449,0:13:59.959
| | It so happens that in this case, the limit statement is true and the prover did play the game according to one possible winning strategy: <math>\delta = \varepsilon/2</math>. However, since we weren't actually told the winning strategy, let alone given an explanation of why it works, what we're given fails as a proof.</toggledisplay> |
| cases based on what the skeptic is going to
| |
| do next, and choosing a
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:13:59.959,0:14:01.940
| | ===Playing to lose=== |
| strategy according to that. But the prover
| |
| doesn't actually know what
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:01.940,0:14:05.089
| | ''Spot the error in this'': |
| the skeptic is going to do next, so the prover
| |
| should actually have a
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:05.089,0:14:08.970 | | {{quotation|Here's an easy proof that <math>\lim_{x \to 0} \sin(1/x) = 0</math>. We need to show that the prover has a winning strategy for the game. Let's say the skeptic starts out by picking <math>\varepsilon = 2</math>. The prover then picks <math>\delta = 1/\pi</math>. It can now easily be verified that for <math>0 < |x| < \delta</math>, <math>|\sin(1/x) - 0| < 2</math>, because the <math>\sin</math> function is trapped within <math>[-1,1]</math>. Thus, the prover has succeeded in trapping the function within the $\varepsilon$-interval specified by the skeptic, and hence won the game. The limit statement is therefore true.}} |
| single strategy that works in both cases.
| |
| So cases will be made to
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:08.970,0:14:12.209
| | The error is as follows: <toggledisplay>This involves ''only one'' choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>. The proof does show that with the choice <math>\varepsilon = 2</math>, the prover wins the game. However, in order to show that the limit statement is true, one would need to demonstrate that the prover wins the game for ''every'' possible choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>. In particular, from the skeptic's viewpoint, ''smaller is smarter'', so the prover needs to have a strategy to win the game for arbitrarily small <math>\varepsilon</math>. |
| prove that the strategy works but the prover
| |
| has to have a single
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:12.209,0:14:12.459
| | In fact, the limit statement is false, and for any choice of <math>\varepsilon \le 1</math>, the prover ''cannot'' win the game, because the range of the function on the immediate left and immediate right of zero is <math>[-1,1]</math>.</toggledisplay> |
| strategy.
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:12.449,0:14:15.370
| | ==Conceptual definition and various cases== |
| Now in this case the correct way of doing the proof is just, the
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:15.370,0:14:18.779
| | ===Formulation of conceptual definition=== |
| prover can pick delta as epsilon because that
| | Below is the ''conceptual'' definition of limit. Suppose <math>f</math> is a function defined in a neighborhood of the point <math>c</math>, except possibly at the point <math>c</math> itself. We say that: |
| will work in both cases.
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:18.779,0:14:20.019
| | <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> |
| KM: Exactly.
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:20.019,0:14:23.320
| | if: |
| Vipul: Yeah. But in general if you have two
| |
| different piece
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:23.320,0:14:26.579
| | * For every choice of neighborhood of <math>L</math> (where the term ''neighborhood'' is suitably defined) |
| definitions then the way you would do it so
| | * there exists a choice of neighborhood of <math>c</math> (where the term ''neighborhood'' is suitably defined) such that |
| you would pick delta as
| | * for all <math>x \ne c</math> that are in the chosen neighborhood of <math>c</math> |
| | * <math>f(x)</math> is in the chosen neighborhood of <math>L</math>. |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:26.579,0:14:30.300
| | <center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=bE_aKfmUHN8}}</center> |
| the min [minimum] of the deltas that work in
| |
| the two different pieces,
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:30.300,0:14:32.910 | | Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay> |
| because you want to make sure that
| | 0:00:15.570,0:00:19.570 |
| both cases are covered. But
| | Vipul: Ok, so in this talk I'm going to |
| | do the conceptual definition |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:32.910,0:14:36.730 | | 0:00:19.570,0:00:26.320 |
| the point is you have to do that -- take
| | of limit, which is important for a number |
| the min use that rather than
| | of reasons. The main reason |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:36.730,0:14:39.730 | | 0:00:26.320,0:00:31.349 |
| just say, "I'm going to choose my delta
| | is it allows you to construct definitions |
| based on what the skeptic is
| | of limit, not just for this |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:39.730,0:14:42.589 | | 0:00:31.349,0:00:34.430 |
| going to move next." Okay?
| | one variable, function of one variable, two |
| | sided limit which you have |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:42.589,0:14:49.120 | | 0:00:34.430,0:00:38.930 |
| So this is a milder form of the same
| | hopefully seen before you saw this video. |
| misconception that that was there in
| | Also for a number of other |
|
| |
|
| 0:14:49.120,0:14:56.120 | | 0:00:38.930,0:00:43.210 |
| the previous example we saw.
| | limit cases which will include limits to infinity, |
| | functions of two |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:04.620,0:15:11.620 | | 0:00:43.210,0:00:47.789 |
| So, this is what I call the mildly telepathic | | variables, etc. So this is a general blueprint |
| prover, right? The
| | for thinking about |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:14.970,0:15:18.579 | | 0:00:47.789,0:00:54.789 |
| prover is still behaving telepathically
| | limits. So let me put this definition here |
| predicting the skeptic's future
| | in front for this. As I am |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:18.579,0:15:23.740 | | 0:00:54.890,0:00:59.289 |
| moves but it's not so bad. The prover is
| | going, I will write things in more general. |
| just making, like, doing a
| | So the starting thing is... |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:23.740,0:15:25.470 | | 0:00:59.289,0:01:03.899 |
| coin toss type of telepathy. Whereas in the
| | first of all f should be defined around the |
| earlier one is prover is
| | point c, need not be |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:25.470,0:15:30.790 | | 0:01:03.899,0:01:08.810 |
| actually, deciding exactly what x the skeptic
| | defined at c, but should be defined everywhere |
| would pick. But it's still
| | around c. I won't write |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:30.790,0:15:32.790 | | 0:01:08.810,0:01:11.750 |
| the same problem and the reason why I think
| | that down, I don't want to complicate things |
| people will have this
| | too much. So we start |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:32.790,0:15:36.329 | | 0:01:11.750,0:01:18.750 |
| misconception is because they don't think
| | with saying for every epsilon greater than |
| about it in terms of the
| | zero. Why are we picking |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:36.329,0:15:38.970 | | 0:01:19.920,0:01:21.689 |
| sequence in which the moves are made, and
| | this epsilon greater than zero? |
| the information that each
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:38.970,0:15:45.970 | | 0:01:21.689,0:01:22.790 |
| party has at any given stage of the game.
| | Rui: Why? |
|
| |
|
| 0:15:50.889,0:15:57.889 | | 0:01:22.790,0:01:26.070 |
| Let's do this one.
| | Vipul: What is the goal of this epsilon? Where |
| | will it finally appear? |
|
| |
|
| 0:16:10.930,0:16:15.259 | | 0:01:26.070,0:01:28.520 |
| So, this is a limit claim, right? It says
| | It will finally appear here. Is this captured? |
| that the limit as x approaches
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:16:15.259,0:16:22.259 | | 0:01:28.520,0:01:29.520 |
| 1 of 2x is 2, okay? How do we go about showing
| | Rui: Yes. |
| this? Well, the idea is
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:16:23.699,0:16:27.990 | | 0:01:29.520,0:01:32.920 |
| let's play the game, right? Let's say
| | Vipul: Which means what we actually are picking |
| the skeptic picks epsilon as
| | when we...if you've |
|
| |
|
| 0:16:27.990,0:16:34.990 | | 0:01:32.920,0:01:37.720 |
| 0.1, okay? The prover picks delta as 0.05.
| | seen the limit as a game video or you know |
| The skeptic is when picking
| | how to make a limit as a |
|
| |
|
| 0:16:35.139,0:16:38.790 | | 0:01:37.720,0:01:41.700 |
| epsilon as 0.1, the skeptic is saying, "Please
| | game. This first thing has been chosen by |
| trap the function
| | the skeptic, right, and the |
|
| |
|
| 0:16:38.790,0:16:43.800 | | 0:01:41.700,0:01:45.840 |
| between 1.9 and 2.1. Okay? Find the delta
| | skeptic is trying to challenge the prover |
| small enough so that the
| | into trapping f(x) within L - epsilon to |
|
| |
|
| 0:16:43.800,0:16:48.389 | | 0:01:45.840,0:01:50.210 |
| function value is trapped between 1.9 and
| | L + epsilon. Even if you haven't |
| 2.1. The prover picks delta
| | seen that [the game], the main focus of |
|
| |
|
| 0:16:48.389,0:16:55.389 | | 0:01:50.210,0:01:55.570 |
| as 0.05 which means the prover is now getting
| | picking epsilon is to pick this interval surrounding |
| the input value trapped
| | L. So instead of |
|
| |
|
| 0:16:57.850,0:17:04.850 | | 0:01:55.570,0:02:02.570 |
| between 0.95 and 1.05. That's 1 plus minus
| | saying, for every epsilon greater than zero, |
| this thing. And now the
| | let's say for every |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:05.439,0:17:09.070 | | 0:02:04.259,0:02:11.259 |
| prover is claiming that if the x value is
| | choice of neighborhood of L. So what I mean |
| within this much distance of
| | by that, I have not |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:09.070,0:17:13.959 | | 0:02:19.650,0:02:23.760 |
| 1 except the value equal to 1, then the function
| | clearly defined it so this is a definition |
| value is within 0.1
| | which is not really a |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:13.959,0:17:17.630 | | 0:02:23.760,0:02:28.139 |
| distance of 2. So, the skeptic tries picking
| | definition, sort of the blueprint for definitions. |
| x within the interval
| | It is what you fill |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:17.630,0:17:23.049 | | 0:02:28.139,0:02:31.570 |
| specified by the prover, so maybe the skeptic
| | in the details [of] and get a correct definition. |
| picks 0.97 which is
| | So by neighborhood, |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:23.049,0:17:26.380 | | 0:02:31.570,0:02:36.180 |
| within 0.05 distance of 1.
| | I mean, in this case, I would mean something |
| | like (L - epsilon, L + |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:26.380,0:17:31.570 | | 0:02:36.180,0:02:43.180 |
| And then they check that 2x [the function f(x)] is
| | epsilon). It is an open interval surrounding |
| 1.94, that is at the distance of 0.06
| | L. Ok, this one. The |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:31.570,0:17:38.570 | | 0:02:44.590,0:02:47.160 |
| from 2. So, it's within 0.1 of the claimed
| | conceptual definition starts for every choice |
| limit 2. So who won the game?
| | of neighborhood of |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:38.780,0:17:42.650 | | 0:02:47.160,0:02:54.160 |
| If the thing is within the interval then who
| | L. The domain neighborhood, I haven't really |
| wins?
| | defined, but that is the |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:42.650,0:17:43.320 | | 0:02:58.359,0:03:05.359 |
| KM: The prover.
| | point, it is the general conceptual definition. |
| | There exists...what |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:43.320,0:17:46.720 | | 0:03:09.810,0:03:11.530 |
| Vipul: The prover wins, right? So, the prover
| | should come next? [ANSWER!] |
| won the game so therefore
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:46.720,0:17:52.100 | | 0:03:11.530,0:03:16.530 |
| this limit statement is true, right? So, what's
| | Rui: A delta? |
| wrong with this as a
| | Vipul: That is what the concrete definition |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:52.100,0:17:57.370 | | 0:03:16.530,0:03:18.530 |
| proof that the limit statement is true? How
| | says, but what would the |
| is this not a proof that
| | conceptual thing say? |
|
| |
|
| 0:17:57.370,0:18:03.870 | | 0:03:18.530,0:03:21.680 |
| the limit statement is true? This what I've
| | Rui: A neighborhood. |
| written here, why is that
| | Vipul: Of what? [ANSWER!] |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:03.870,0:18:05.990 | | 0:03:21.680,0:03:28.680 |
| not a proof that the limit statement is true?
| | Rui: Of c. |
| | Vipul: Of c, of the domain. The goal of picking |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:05.990,0:18:11.960 | | 0:03:34.639,0:03:37.970 |
| KM: Because it's only an example for the
| | delta is to find a |
| specific choice of epsilon and x.
| | neighborhood of c. Points to the immediate |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:11.960,0:18:16.200 | | 0:03:37.970,0:03:44.919 |
| Vipul: Yes, exactly. So, it's like a single
| | left and immediate |
| play of the game, the
| | right of c. There exists a choice of neighborhood |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:16.200,0:18:20.470 | | 0:03:44.919,0:03:51.919 |
| prover wins, but the limit statement doesn't
| | of c such that, by |
| just say that the prover
| | the way I sometimes abbreviate, such that, |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:20.470,0:18:24.380 | | 0:03:59.850,0:04:06.109 |
| wins the game, it says the prover has a winning
| | as s.t., okay, don't get |
| strategy. It says that
| | confused by that. Okay, what next? Let's |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:24.380,0:18:27.660 | | 0:04:06.109,0:04:12.309 |
| the prover can win the game regardless of | | bring out the thing. The next |
| how the skeptic plays;
| | thing is for all x with |x - c| less than |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:27.660,0:18:31.070 | | 0:04:12.309,0:04:19.309 |
| there's a way for the prover to do that.
| | ... all x in the neighborhood |
| This just gives one example
| | except the point c itself. So what should |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:31.070,0:18:34.640 | | 0:04:20.040,0:04:27.040 |
| where the prover won the game, but it doesn't
| | come here? For all x in the |
| tell us that regardless
| | neighborhood of c, I put x not equal to c. |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:34.640,0:18:37.280 | | 0:04:36.570,0:04:37.160 |
| of the epsilon the skeptic picks the prover
| | Is that clear? |
| can pick a delta such that
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:37.280,0:18:41.090 | | 0:04:37.160,0:04:37.520 |
| regardless of the x the skeptic picks, the
| | Rui: Yes. |
| function is within the
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:41.090,0:18:45.530 | | 0:04:37.520,0:04:44.520 |
| thing. So that's the issue here. Okay?
| | Vipul: x not equal to c in the neighborhood |
| | chosen for c. The reason |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:45.530,0:18:51.160 | | 0:04:49.310,0:04:53.360 |
| Now you notice -- I'm sure you've noticed
| | we're excluding the point c that we take the |
| this but the way the game and the
| | limit at the point and we |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:51.160,0:18:58.160 | | 0:04:53.360,0:04:55.770 |
| limit definition. The way the limit definition
| | just care about stuff around, we don't care |
| goes, you see that all
| | about what is happening at |
|
| |
|
| 0:18:59.870,0:19:04.260 | | 0:04:55.770,0:05:02.770 |
| the moves of the skeptic be right "for every" | | the point. For c...this chosen neighborhood...I |
| "for all." Right? And
| | am writing the black |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:04.260,0:19:07.390 | | 0:05:09.880,0:05:14.440 |
| for all the moves of the prover it's "there | | for choices that the skeptic makes and the |
| exists." Why do we do
| | red for the choices the |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:07.390,0:19:11.140 | | 0:05:14.440,0:05:16.490 |
| that? Because we are trying to get a winning | | prover makes, actually that's reverse of what |
| strategy for the prover,
| | I did in the other |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:11.140,0:19:14.309 | | 0:05:16.490,0:05:21.320 |
| so the prover controls his own moves. Okay?
| | video, but that's ok. They can change colors. |
| | If you have seen that |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:14.309,0:19:15.250 | | 0:05:21.320,0:05:24.710 |
| KM: Exactly.
| | limit game thing, this color pattern just |
| | [means] ... the black |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:15.250,0:19:18.630 | | 0:05:24.710,0:05:28.400 |
| Vipul: So, therefore wherever it's a prover
| | matches with the skeptic choices and the red |
| move it will be a there
| | matches what the prover |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:18.630,0:19:22.240 | | 0:05:28.400,0:05:32.710 |
| exists. Where there is a skeptic's move
| | chooses. If you haven't seen that, it is |
| the prover has to be prepared
| | not an issue. Just imagine |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:22.240,0:19:29.240 | | 0:05:32.710,0:05:35.820 |
| for anything the skeptic does. All those moves
| | it's a single color. |
| are "for every."
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:30.559,0:19:33.850 | | 0:05:35.820,0:05:40.820 |
| One last one. By the way, this one was called,
| | What happens next? What do we need to check |
| "You say you want a
| | in order to say this limit |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:33.850,0:19:36.870 | | 0:05:40.820,0:05:42.950 |
| replay?" Which is basically they're just
| | is L? So f(x) should be where? |
| saying that just one play is
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:36.870,0:19:40.890 | | 0:05:42.950,0:05:44.980 |
| not good enough. If the statement is actually
| | Rui: In the neighborhood of L. |
| true, the prover should
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:40.890,0:19:45.370 | | 0:05:44.980,0:05:48.060 |
| be willing to accept it if the skeptic wants a
| | Vipul: Yeah. In the concrete definition we |
| replay and say they want to
| | said f(x) minus L is less |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:45.370,0:19:47.679 | | 0:05:48.060,0:05:51.440 |
| play it again, the prover should say "sure"
| | than epsilon. Right, but that is just stating |
| and "I'm going to win
| | that f(x) is in the |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:47.679,0:19:53.320 | | 0:05:51.440,0:05:58.440 |
| again." That's what it would mean for
| | chosen neighborhood. So f(x) is in the chosen |
| the limit statement to be true.
| | neighborhood of...Now |
|
| |
|
| 0:19:53.320,0:20:00.320 | | 0:06:08.470,0:06:15.470 |
| One last one. Just kind of pretty similar
| | that we have this blueprint for the definition. |
| to the one we just saw. But with
| | This is a blueprint |
|
| |
|
| 0:20:16.690,0:20:23.690 | | 0:06:25.660,0:06:32.660 |
| a little twist.
| | for the definition. We'll write it in blue. |
| | What I mean is, now if I |
|
| |
|
| 0:20:39.020,0:20:46.020 | | 0:06:34.930,0:06:40.700 |
| Okay, this one, let's see. We are saying
| | ask you to define a limit, in a slightly different |
| that the limit as x
| | context; you just |
|
| |
|
| 0:20:50.450,0:20:56.900 | | 0:06:40.700,0:06:46.280 |
| approaches zero of sin(1/x) is zero, right?
| | have to figure out in order to make this rigorous |
| Let's see how we prove
| | definition. What |
|
| |
|
| 0:20:56.900,0:21:01.409 | | 0:06:46.280,0:06:49.240 |
| this. If the statement true ... well, do you
| | word do you need to understand the meaning |
| think the statement is
| | of? [ANSWER!] |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:01.409,0:21:08.409 | | 0:06:49.240,0:06:53.780 |
| true? As x approach to zero, is sin 1 over
| | Rui: Neighborhood. |
| x approaching zero? So
| | Vipul: Neighborhood, right. That's the magic |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:13.980,0:21:20.980 | | 0:06:53.780,0:06:59.810 |
| here's the picture of sin(1/x). y-axis.
| | word behind which I am |
| It's an oscillatory function
| | hiding the details. If you can understand |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:22.010,0:21:27.870 | | 0:06:59.810,0:07:06.280 |
| and it has this kind of picture. Does it doesn't
| | what I mean by neighborhood |
| go to zero as x
| | then you can turn this into a concrete definition.</toggledisplay> |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:27.870,0:21:29.270
| | ===Functions of one variable case=== |
| approaches zero?
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:29.270,0:21:30.669
| | The following definitions of neighborhood are good enough to define limits. |
| KM: No.
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:30.669,0:21:35.539
| | * For points in the interior of the domain, for functions of one variable: We can take an open interval centered at the point. For a point <math>c</math>, such an open interval is of the form <math>(c - t, c + t), t > 0</math>. Note that if we exclude the point <math>c</math> itself, we get <math>(c - t,c) \cup (c,c + t)</math>. |
| Vipul: No. So, you said that this statement
| | * For the point <math>+\infty</math>, for functions of one variable: We take intervals of the form <math>(a,\infty)</math>, where <math>a \in \R</math>. |
| is false, but I'm going to
| | * For the point <math>-\infty</math>, for functions of one variable: We can take interval of the form <math>(-\infty,a)</math>, where <math>a \in \R</math>. |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:35.539,0:21:38.700
| | We can now list the nine cases of limits, combining finite and infinite possibilities: |
| try to show it's true. Here's how I do
| |
| that. Let's say the skeptic
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:38.700,0:21:44.510 | | {| class="sortable" border="1" |
| picks epsilon as two, okay? And then the prover
| | ! Case !! Definition |
| ... so, the epsilon is | | |- |
| | | | <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>), we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L +\varepsilon)</math>). |
| 0:21:44.510,0:21:48.520 | | |- |
| two so that's the interval of width two
| | | <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = -\infty</math> || For every <math>a \in \R</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>), we have <math>f(x) < a</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (-\infty,a)</math>). |
| about the game limit zero. The
| | |- |
| | | <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = \infty</math> || For every <math>a \in \R</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>), we have <math>f(x) > a</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (a,\infty)</math>). |
| | |- |
| | | <math>\lim_{x \to -\infty} f(x) = L</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x < a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (-\infty,a)</math>), we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L +\varepsilon)</math>). |
| | |- |
| | | <math>\lim_{x \to -\infty} f(x) = -\infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x < a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (-\infty,a)</math>), we have <math>f(x) < b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (-\infty,b)</math>). |
| | |- |
| | | <math>\lim_{x \to -\infty} f(x) = \infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x < a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (-\infty,a)</math>), we have <math>f(x) > b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (b,\infty)</math>). |
| | |- |
| | | <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = L</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x > a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>), we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L +\varepsilon)</math>). |
| | |- |
| | | <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = -\infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x > a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>), we have <math>f(x) < b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (-\infty,b)</math>). |
| | |- |
| | | <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = \infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x > a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>), we have <math>f(x) > b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (b,\infty)</math>). |
| | |} |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:48.520,0:21:55.150
| | <center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=EOQby7b-WrA}}</center> |
| prover picks delta as 1/pi. Whatever x the
| |
| skeptic picks, okay?
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:21:55.150,0:22:02.150
| | ===Limit of sequence versus real-sense limit=== |
| Regardless of the x that the
| |
| skeptic picks, the function is trapped
| |
| within epsilon of the game limit. Is that
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:10.340,0:22:16.900
| | Recall that the limit of a real-valued function to infinity is defined as follows: |
| true? Yes, because sin
| |
| (1/x) is between minus 1 and 1, right? Therefore
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:16.900,0:22:20.100
| | <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = L</math> means that: |
| since the skeptic
| |
| picked an epsilon of 2, the function value
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:20.100,0:22:24.030 | | * For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> |
| is completely trapped in
| | * there exists <math>a \in \R</math> (we're thinking of the neighborhood <math>(a,\infty)</math>) such that |
| the interval from -1 to 1, so therefore the
| | * for all <math>x > a</math> (i.e. <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>) |
| | * we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>). |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:24.030,0:22:27.919
| | Suppose now instead that <math>f</math> is a function restricted to the natural numbers. We can think of <math>f</math> as a [[sequence]], namely the sequence <math>f(1), f(2), \dots</math>. In that case: |
| prover managed to trap it
| |
| within distance of 2 of the claimed limit zero.
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:27.919,0:22:30.970
| | <math>\lim_{n \to \infty, n \in \mathbb{N}} f(n) = L</math> (in words, the sequence converges to <math>L</math>) means that: |
| Okay? Regardless of what
| |
| the skeptic does, right? It's not just saying
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:30.970,0:22:34.370 | | * For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> |
| that the prover won the | | * there exists <math>n_0 \in \mathbb{N}</math> such that |
| game once, it's saying whatever x the skeptic
| | * for all <math>n \in \mathbb{N}</math> satisfying <math>n > n_0</math>, |
| | * we have <math>|f(n) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(n) \in (L - \varepsilon, L + \varepsilon)</math>). |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:34.370,0:22:40.740
| | The definitions differ both in their second and third line. However, the difference in the second line (the use of a real number versus a natural number to specify the threshold for the trapping interval) is not important, i.e., we could swap these lines between the definitions without changing the sense of either definition. The key difference between the definitions lies in their third lines. In the real-sense limit definition case, we require trapping of the function value close to the claimed limit for ''all sufficiently large reals'' whereas the sequence limit definition requires trapping only for ''all sufficiently large natural numbers''. |
| picks the prover can
| |
| still win the game. Right? Regardless if the
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:40.740,0:22:43.780
| | To understand this distinction, consider the following: if <math>f</math> is defined on reals, and it has a real-sense limit, i.e., <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = L</math> for some <math>L \in \mathbb{R}</math>, then it must also be true that <math>\lim_{n \to \infty, n \in \mathbb{N}} f(n) = L</math>. However, it is possible for <math>f</math> to have a sequence limit but not have a real-sense limit. For instance, the function <math>f(x) := \sin(\pi x)</math> has <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x)</math> undefined but <math>\lim_{n \to \infty, n \in \mathbb{N}} f(n)</math> is zero, because <math>f</math> takes the value 0 at all integers. |
| x the skeptic picks, the
| |
| prover picked a delta such that the function
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:43.780,0:22:48.100
| | <center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=P9APtpIE4y8}}</center> |
| is trapped. It's
| |
| completely trapped, okay? It's not an issue
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:48.100,0:22:51.130
| | Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay> |
| of whether the skeptic
| |
| picked a stupid x. Do you think that this
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:51.130,0:22:52.130 | | 0:00:15.530,0:00:22.530 |
| proves the statement?
| | Vipul: Okay. So this talk is going to be about |
| | limit at infinity for functions on real numbers |
|
| |
|
| 0:22:52.130,0:22:59.130 | | 0:00:24.300,0:00:28.980 |
| KM: No, I mean in this case it still depended
| | and the concept of limits of sequences, how |
| on the epsilon that the
| | these definitions are essentially almost the |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:01.030,0:23:01.820 | | 0:00:28.980,0:00:34.790 |
| skeptic chose.
| | same thing and how they differ. |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:01.820,0:23:04.980 | | 0:00:34.790,0:00:41.790 |
| Vipul: It's still dependent on the epsilon
| | Okay. So let's begin by reviewing the definition |
| that the skeptic chose? So,
| | of the limit as x approaches infinity of f(x). |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:04.980,0:23:05.679 | | 0:00:42.360,0:00:47.390 |
| yes, that's exactly the problem.
| | Or rather what it means for that limit to |
| | be a number L. Well, what it means is that |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:05.679,0:23:09.370 | | 0:00:47.390,0:00:52.699 |
| So, we proved that the statement -- we prove
| | for every epsilon greater than zero, so we |
| that from this part onward
| | first say for every neighborhood of L, small |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:09.370,0:23:12.500 | | 0:00:52.699,0:00:59.429 |
| but it still, we didn't prove it for all
| | neighborhood of L, given by radius epsilon |
| epsilon, we only prove for
| | there exists a neighborhood of infinity which |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:12.500,0:23:16.309 | | 0:00:59.429,0:01:03.010 |
| epsilon is 2, and 2 is a very big number,
| | is specified by choosing some a such that |
| right? Because the
| | that is |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:16.309,0:23:19.970 | | 0:01:03.010,0:01:08.670 |
| oscillation is all happening between minus
| | the interval (a,infinity) ... |
| 1 and 1, and if in fact the
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:19.970,0:23:26.970 | | 0:01:08.670,0:01:15.220 |
| skeptic had pick epsilon as 1 or something
| | ... such that for all x in the interval from |
| smaller than 1 then the two
| | a to infinity. That is for all x within the |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:27.030,0:23:32.169 | | 0:01:15.220,0:01:20.430 |
| epsilon strip width would not cover the entire
| | chosen neighborhood of infinity, the f(x) |
| -1, +1
| | value is within the chosen neighborhood of |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:32.169,0:23:35.490 | | 0:01:20.430,0:01:23.390 |
| interval, and then whatever the prover did
| | L. Okay? |
| the skeptic could actually
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:35.490,0:23:39.530 | | 0:01:23.390,0:01:28.049 |
| pick an x and show that it's not trapped.
| | If you want to think about it in terms of |
| So, in fact the reason why
| | the game between the prover and the skeptic, |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:39.530,0:23:43.110 | | 0:01:28.049,0:01:34.560 |
| the prover could win the game from this point | | the prover is claiming that the limit as x |
| onward is that the
| | approaches infinity of f(x) is L. The skeptic |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:43.110,0:23:45.900 | | 0:01:34.560,0:01:38.930 |
| skeptic made a stupid choice of epsilon.
| | begins by picking a neighborhood of L which |
| Okay?
| | is parameterized by its radius epsilon. The |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:45.900,0:23:52.289 | | 0:01:38.930,0:01:41.619 |
| In all these situation, all these misconceptions,
| | prover picks the |
| the main problem is,
| | neighborhood of infinity which is parameterized |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:52.289,0:23:58.919 | | 0:01:41.619,0:01:48.350 |
| that we're not ... keeping in mind the order
| | by its lower end a. Then the skeptic picks |
| which the moves I made
| | a value x between a and infinity. Then they |
|
| |
|
| 0:23:58.919,0:24:04.179 | | 0:01:48.350,0:01:51.990 |
| and how much information each claim has at
| | check whether absolute value f(x) minus L |
| the stage where that move
| | [symbolically: |f(x) - L|] is less than epsilon. |
|
| |
|
| 0:24:04.179,0:24:04.789 | | 0:01:51.990,0:01:56.090 |
| is being made. | | That is they check whether f(x) is in the |
| </toggledisplay>
| | chosen neighborhood of L (the neighborhood |
|
| |
|
| ===Strongly telepathic prover===
| | 0:01:56.090,0:02:00.640 |
| | chosen by the skeptic). If it is, |
| | then the prover wins. The prover has managed |
|
| |
|
| ''Spot the error in this'':
| | 0:02:00.640,0:02:05.810 |
| | to trap the function: for x large enough, |
| | the prover has managed to trap the function |
|
| |
|
| {{quotation|Consider the limit problem <math>\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 2} x^2 = 4</math>. The <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> proof corresponding to this problem would involve a game between a prover and a skeptic. To show that the limit statement is true, it suffices to exhibit a winning strategy for the prover for the game. The strategy is as follows. Pick <math>\delta = \frac{\varepsilon}{|x + 2|}</math>. Let's prove that this works.<br><br>''Specific claim'': For any skeptic-picked <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, if the prover picks <math>\delta > 0</math> such that <math>\delta = \varepsilon/|x + 2|</math>, then regardless of the <math>x</math> that the skeptic picks with <math>0 < |x - 2| < \delta</math>, we have <math>|x^2 - 4| < \varepsilon</math>.<br><br>''Proof of claim'': We have: <br><math>|x^2 - 4| = |x - 2||x + 2| < \delta|x + 2| = \frac{\varepsilon}{|x + 2|} |x + 2| = \varepsilon</math>}}
| | 0:02:05.810,0:02:12.810 |
| | within epsilon distance of L. If not, then |
| | the skeptic wins. The statement is true if |
|
| |
|
| The error is as follows: <toggledisplay>Recall the sequence of moves made in the game. First, the skeptic picks <math>\varepsilon > 0 </math>. Then, the prover picks <math>\delta > 0</math>. ''Then'', the skeptic picks a test value of <math>x</math> to challenge the prover's claim of the function being trapped. In particular, this means that at the stage that the prover picks the vaule of <math>\delta</math>, the prover is ''unaware'' of the value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to pick. Hence, the prover's strategy for choosing <math>\delta</math> cannot use <math>x</math>. Rather, the prover must have a strategy for <math>\delta</math> purely in terms of <math>\varepsilon</math>, which is the only piece of information known to the prover at that stage in the game.
| | 0:02:13.610,0:02:18.680 |
| | the prover has a winning the strategy for |
| | the game. |
|
| |
|
| This also explains why we called this error the ''strongly telepathic prover'', i.e., it involved the prover reading the skeptic's mind about future planned moves, which is impermissible.
| | 0:02:18.680,0:02:21.730 |
| | Now, there is a similar definition which one |
| | has for sequences. So, what's a sequence? |
|
| |
|
| Although this strategy is wrong, it can be fixed to get a correct strategy, i.e., this is the right way to ''start'' thinking about how this type of problem could be attacked. What the prover needs to do is pick a choice of <math>\delta</math> that works for all <math>x</math> that the skeptic can pick in the constrained interval. The algebra done here provides some guidelines on how the prover can make such a choice, but another idea, namely, the idea of a ''cut-off value'', is needed to complete the strategy.</toggledisplay>
| | 0:02:21.730,0:02:26.349 |
| | Well, it's just a function from the natural |
| | numbers. And, here, we're talking of sequences |
|
| |
|
| ===Mildly telepathic prover===
| | 0:02:26.349,0:02:31.610 |
| | of real numbers. So, it's a function from |
| | the naturals to the reals and we use the same |
|
| |
|
| ''Spot the error in this'':
| | 0:02:31.610,0:02:37.400 |
| | letter f for a good reason. Usually we write |
| | sequences with subscripts, a_n type of thing. |
|
| |
|
| {{quotation|Consider the limit problem: <br><math>g(x) = \left \lbrace \begin{array}{ll} x, & x \text{ rational } \\ 0, & x \text{ irrational }\\\end{array}\right.</math><br>We want to show that <math>\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 0} g(x) = 0$</math><br>For this game, we need to exhibit a winning strategy for the prover. The winning strategy is as follows. The skeptic first chooses <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>. The prover now makes two cases. If the skeptic is planning to pick a rational value of <math>x</math>, then the prover chooses the strategy <math>\delta = \varepsilon</math>. If the skeptic is planning to choose an irrational value of <math>x</math>, then the prover can pick any <math>\delta</math>.<br>Clearly, the prover's strategy works in both cases, so we have a winning strategy.}}
| | 0:02:37.400,0:02:42.409 |
| | But I'm using it as a function just to highlight |
| | the similarities. So, limit as n approaches |
|
| |
|
| Th error is as follows: <toggledisplay>Recall the sequence of moves made in the game. First, the skeptic picks <math>\varepsilon > 0 </math>. Then, the prover picks <math>\delta > 0</math>. ''Then'', the skeptic picks a test value of <math>x</math> to challenge the prover's claim of the function being trapped. In particular, this means that at the stage that the prover picks the vaule of <math>\delta</math>, the prover is ''unaware'' of the value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to pick. Hence, the prover's strategy for choosing <math>\delta</math> cannot rely on specifics about what <math>x</math> the skeptic plans to choose.
| | 0:02:42.409,0:02:47.519 |
| | infinity, n restricted to the natural numbers |
| | ... Usually if it's clear we're talking of |
|
| |
|
| This error is similar to the preceding error. Both involve impermissible telepathy on the prover's part in reading the skeptic's mind. The ''strongly telepathic prover'' error is more severe in the sense that it involves the prover reading the exact value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to play, whereas the ''mildly telepathic prover'' error only involves the prover guessing the ''type'' of value (rational or irrational) that the skeptic plans to play.
| | 0:02:47.519,0:02:52.830 |
| | a sequence, we can remove this part [pointing |
| | to the n in N constraint specification] just |
| | |
| | 0:02:52.830,0:02:54.980 |
| | say limit n approaches infinity f(n), |
| | but since we want to be really clear here, |
|
| |
|
| The fix for the mildly telepathic prover error is that the prover chooses a ''combined'' strategy that ''simultaneously'' works for both eventualities. In this situation, the strategy <math>\delta = \varepsilon</math> works for both situations (rational and irrational <math>x</math>). In general, for a function with two piece definitions for rational and irrational points in the domain, we need to take the ''min'' of the <math>\delta</math>-strategies that work for the definitions individually. A similar approach works for different definitions on the left and right.</toggledisplay>
| | 0:02:54.980,0:02:57.220 |
| | I have put this line. Okay? |
|
| |
|
| ===You say you want a replay?===
| | 0:02:57.220,0:03:02.709 |
| | So, this limit equals L means "for every epsilon |
| | greater than 0 ..." So, it starts in the same |
|
| |
|
| ''Spot the error in this'':
| | 0:03:02.709,0:03:09.170 |
| | way. The skeptic picks a neighborhood of L. |
| | Then the next line is a little different but |
|
| |
|
| {{quotation|Consider the limit problem <math>\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 1} 2x = 2</math>. Let's think of this in terms of an <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> game. The skeptic begins by picking <math>\varepsilon = 0.1</math>. The prover chooses <math>\delta = 0.05</math>. The skeptic now chooses <math>x = 0.97</math>. This value of <math>x</math> is within the <math>\delta</math>-distance of <math>1</math>. It's now checked that <math>2x = 1.94</math> is within <math>\varepsilon</math>-distance of the claimed limit <math>2</math>. The prover has thus won the game, and we have established the truth of the limit statement.}}
| | 0:03:09.170,0:03:16.170 |
| | that's not really the crucial part. The skeptic |
| | is choosing epsilon. The prover picks n_0, |
|
| |
|
| The error is as follows: <toggledisplay>This involves ''only one'' play of the <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> limit game. The prover did win this play of the game. However, for us to declare the limit statement to be true, we need to establish that the prover has a ''winning strategy'' for the game, which means we need to demonstrate how the prover would pick a <math>\delta</math> in terms of each choice of <math>\varepsilon</math> (preferably by specifying <math>\delta</math> explicitly as a function of <math>\varepsilon</math>) and then show that the strategy works for all <math>x</math> within <math>\delta</math>-distance of the point on the domain side.
| | 0:03:18.799,0:03:22.830 |
| | a natural number. Now, here the prover is |
| | picking a real number. Here the prover is |
|
| |
|
| It so happens that in this case, the limit statement is true and the prover did play the game according to one possible winning strategy: <math>\delta = \varepsilon/2</math>. However, since we weren't actually told the winning strategy, let alone given an explanation of why it works, what we're given fails as a proof.</toggledisplay>
| | 0:03:22.830,0:03:26.700 |
| | picking a natural number. That's not really |
| | the big issue. You could in fact change this |
|
| |
|
| ===Playing to lose===
| | 0:03:26.700,0:03:33.659 |
| | line to match. You could interchange these |
| | lines. It wouldn't affect either definition. |
|
| |
|
| ''Spot the error in this'':
| | 0:03:33.659,0:03:40.599 |
| | The next line is the really important one |
| | which is different. In here [pointing to real-sense |
|
| |
|
| {{quotation|Here's an easy proof that <math>\lim_{x \to 0} \sin(1/x) = 0</math>. We need to show that the prover has a winning strategy for the game. Let's say the skeptic starts out by picking <math>\varepsilon = 2</math>. The prover then picks <math>\delta = 1/\pi</math>. It can now easily be verified that for <math>0 < |x| < \delta</math>, <math>|\sin(1/x) - 0| < 2</math>, because the <math>\sin</math> function is trapped within <math>[-1,1]</math>. Thus, the prover has succeeded in trapping the function within the $\varepsilon$-interval specified by the skeptic, and hence won the game. The limit statement is therefore true.}}
| | 0:03:40.599,0:03:47.430 |
| | limit], the condition has to be valid for |
| | all x, for all real numbers x which are bigger |
|
| |
|
| The error is as follows: <toggledisplay>This involves ''only one'' choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>. The proof does show that with the choice <math>\varepsilon = 2</math>, the prover wins the game. However, in order to show that the limit statement is true, one would need to demonstrate that the prover wins the game for ''every'' possible choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>. In particular, from the skeptic's viewpoint, ''smaller is smarter'', so the prover needs to have a strategy to win the game for arbitrarily small <math>\varepsilon</math>.
| | 0:03:47.430,0:03:51.900 |
| | than the threshold which the prover has chosen. |
| | Here on the other hand [pointing to the sequence |
|
| |
|
| In fact, the limit statement is false, and for any choice of <math>\varepsilon \le 1</math>, the prover ''cannot'' win the game, because the range of the function on the immediate left and immediate right of zero is <math>[-1,1]</math>.</toggledisplay>
| | 0:03:51.900,0:03:56.970 |
| | limit] the condition has to be valid for all |
| | natural numbers which are bigger than the |
|
| |
|
| ==Conceptual definition and various cases==
| | 0:03:56.970,0:04:00.659 |
| | threshold the prover has chosen. By the way, |
| | some of you may have seen the definition with |
|
| |
|
| ===Formulation of conceptual definition===
| | 0:04:00.659,0:04:07.659 |
| Below is the ''conceptual'' definition of limit. Suppose <math>f</math> is a function defined in a neighborhood of the point <math>c</math>, except possibly at the point <math>c</math> itself. We say that:
| | an equality sign here. It doesn't make a difference |
| | to the definition. It does affect what n_0 |
|
| |
|
| <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>
| | 0:04:09.010,0:04:12.019 |
| | you can choose, it will go up or down by one, |
| | but that's not |
|
| |
|
| if:
| | 0:04:12.019,0:04:17.310 |
| | really a big issue. The big issue, the big |
| | difference between these two definitions is |
|
| |
|
| * For every choice of neighborhood of <math>L</math> (where the term ''neighborhood'' is suitably defined)
| | 0:04:17.310,0:04:23.050 |
| * there exists a choice of neighborhood of <math>c</math> (where the term ''neighborhood'' is suitably defined) such that
| | that in this definition you are insisting |
| * for all <math>x \ne c</math> that are in the chosen neighborhood of <math>c</math>
| | that the condition here is valid for all real |
| * <math>f(x)</math> is in the chosen neighborhood of <math>L</math>.
| |
|
| |
|
| <center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=bE_aKfmUHN8}}</center>
| | 0:04:23.050,0:04:30.050 |
| | x. So, you are insisting or rather the game |
| | is forcing the prover to figure out how to |
|
| |
|
| Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay>
| | 0:04:31.650,0:04:36.940 |
| 0:00:15.570,0:00:19.570 | | trap the function values for all real x. Whereas |
| Vipul: Ok, so in this talk I'm going to
| | here, the game is only requiring the prover |
| do the conceptual definition
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:19.570,0:00:26.320 | | 0:04:36.940,0:04:39.639 |
| of limit, which is important for a number
| | to trap the function values for all large |
| of reasons. The main reason
| | enough |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:26.320,0:00:31.349 | | 0:04:39.639,0:04:42.880 |
| is it allows you to construct definitions
| | natural numbers. So, here [real-sense limit] |
| of limit, not just for this
| | it's all large enough real numbers. Here [sequence |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:31.349,0:00:34.430 | | 0:04:42.880,0:04:49.250 |
| one variable, function of one variable, two
| | limit] it's all large enough natural numbers. |
| sided limit which you have
| | Okay? |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:34.430,0:00:38.930 | | 0:04:49.250,0:04:56.250 |
| hopefully seen before you saw this video.
| | So, that's the only difference essentially. |
| Also for a number of other
| | Now, you can see from the way we have written |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:38.930,0:00:43.210 | | 0:04:57.050,0:04:59.900 |
| limit cases which will include limits to infinity, | | this that this [real-sense limit] is much |
| functions of two
| | stronger. So, if you do have a function which |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:43.210,0:00:47.789 | | 0:04:59.900,0:05:06.880 |
| variables, etc. So this is a general blueprint
| | is defined on real so that both of these concepts |
| for thinking about
| | can be discussed. If it were just a sequence |
| | |
| | 0:05:06.880,0:05:10.080 |
| | and there were no function to talk about then |
| | obviously, we can't even talk about this. |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:47.789,0:00:54.789 | | 0:05:10.080,0:05:16.860 |
| limits. So let me put this definition here
| | If there's a function defined on the reals |
| in front for this. As I am
| | or on all large enough reals, then we can |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:54.890,0:00:59.289 | | 0:05:16.860,0:05:21.470 |
| going, I will write things in more general.
| | try taking both of these. The existence of |
| So the starting thing is...
| | this [pointing at the real-sense limit] and |
|
| |
|
| 0:00:59.289,0:01:03.899 | | 0:05:21.470,0:05:24.580 |
| first of all f should be defined around the
| | [said "or", meant "and"] it's being equal |
| point c, need not be
| | to L as much stronger than this [the sequence |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:03.899,0:01:08.810 | | 0:05:24.580,0:05:27.250 |
| defined at c, but should be defined everywhere
| | limit] equal to L. If this is equal to L then |
| around c. I won't write
| | definitely this [the sequence limit] is equal |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:08.810,0:01:11.750 | | 0:05:27.250,0:05:29.330 |
| that down, I don't want to complicate things
| | to L. Okay? |
| too much. So we start
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:11.750,0:01:18.750 | | 0:05:29.330,0:05:32.080 |
| with saying for every epsilon greater than
| | But maybe there are situations where this |
| zero. Why are we picking
| | [the sequence limit] is equal to some number |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:19.920,0:01:21.689 | | 0:05:32.080,0:05:38.240 |
| this epsilon greater than zero? | | but this thing [the real-sense limit] doesn't |
| | exist. So, I want to take one example here. |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:21.689,0:01:22.790 | | 0:05:38.240,0:05:45.240 |
| Rui: Why?
| | I have written down an example and we can |
| | talk a bit about that is this. So, here is |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:22.790,0:01:26.070 | | 0:05:45.509,0:05:52.509 |
| Vipul: What is the goal of this epsilon? Where
| | a function. f(x) = sin(pi x). This is sin |
| will it finally appear?
| | (pi x) and the corresponding |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:26.070,0:01:28.520 | | 0:05:55.630,0:06:00.530 |
| It will finally appear here. Is this captured?
| | function if you just restrict [it] to the |
| | natural numbers is just sin (pi n). Now, what |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:28.520,0:01:29.520 | | 0:06:00.530,0:06:06.759 |
| Rui: Yes.
| | does sin (pi n) look like for a natural number |
| | n? In fact for any integer n? pi times |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:29.520,0:01:32.920 | | 0:06:06.759,0:06:13.759 |
| Vipul: Which means what we actually are picking
| | n is an integer multiple of pi. sin of integer |
| when we...if you've
| | multiples of pi is zero. Let's make a picture |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:32.920,0:01:37.720 | | 0:06:18.370,0:06:25.370 |
| seen the limit as a game video or you know
| | of sin ... |
| how to make a limit as a
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:37.720,0:01:41.700 | | 0:06:27.289,0:06:33.360 |
| game. This first thing has been chosen by
| | It's oscillating. Right? Integer multiples |
| the skeptic, right, and the | | of pi are precisely the ones where it's meeting |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:41.700,0:01:45.840 | | 0:06:33.360,0:06:40.330 |
| skeptic is trying to challenge the prover
| | the axis. So, in fact we are concerned about |
| into trapping f(x) within L - epsilon to
| | the positive one because we are talking of |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:45.840,0:01:50.210 | | 0:06:40.330,0:06:45.840 |
| L + epsilon. Even if you haven't
| | the sequence (natural number [inputs]). Okay? |
| seen that [the game], the main focus of
| | And so, if you are looking at this sequence, |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:50.210,0:01:55.570 | | 0:06:45.840,0:06:51.090 |
| picking epsilon is to pick this interval surrounding
| | all the terms here are zero. So, the limit |
| L. So instead of
| | is also zero. So, this limit [the sequence |
|
| |
|
| 0:01:55.570,0:02:02.570 | | 0:06:51.090,0:06:53.030 |
| saying, for every epsilon greater than zero,
| | limit] is zero. |
| let's say for every
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:04.259,0:02:11.259 | | 0:06:53.030,0:07:00.030 |
| choice of neighborhood of L. So what I mean
| | Okay. What about this limit? Well, we have |
| by that, I have not
| | the picture again. Is it going anywhere? No. |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:19.650,0:02:23.760 | | 0:07:05.349,0:07:07.650 |
| clearly defined it so this is a definition
| | It's oscillating between minus one and one |
| which is not really a
| | [symbolically: oscillating in [-1,1]]. It's |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:23.760,0:02:28.139 | | 0:07:07.650,0:07:11.669 |
| definition, sort of the blueprint for definitions.
| | not settling down to any number. It's not... |
| It is what you fill
| | You cannot trap it near any particular number |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:28.139,0:02:31.570 | | 0:07:11.669,0:07:17.280 |
| in the details [of] and get a correct definition.
| | because it's all over the map between minus |
| So by neighborhood,
| | one and one. For the same reason that sin(1/x) |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:31.570,0:02:36.180 | | 0:07:17.280,0:07:22.840 |
| I mean, in this case, I would mean something
| | doesn't approach anything as x approaches |
| like (L - epsilon, L +
| | zero, the same reason sin x or sin(pi x) doesn't |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:36.180,0:02:43.180 | | 0:07:22.840,0:07:29.840 |
| epsilon). It is an open interval surrounding
| | approach anything as x approaches infinity. |
| L. Ok, this one. The
| | So, the limit for the real thing, this does |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:44.590,0:02:47.160 | | 0:07:31.099,0:07:37.539 |
| conceptual definition starts for every choice
| | not exist. So, this gives an example where |
| of neighborhood of
| | the real thing [the real-sense limit] doesn't |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:47.160,0:02:54.160 | | 0:07:37.539,0:07:44.539 |
| L. The domain neighborhood, I haven't really
| | exist and the sequence thing [sequence limit] |
| defined, but that is the
| | does exist and so here is the overall summary. |
|
| |
|
| 0:02:58.359,0:03:05.359 | | 0:07:44.690,0:07:46.979 |
| point, it is the general conceptual definition.
| | If the real sense limit, |
| There exists...what
| | that is this one [pointing to definition of |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:09.810,0:03:11.530 | | 0:07:46.979,0:07:51.039 |
| should come next? [ANSWER!]
| | real sense limit] exists, [then] the sequence |
| | limit also exists and they're both equal. |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:11.530,0:03:16.530 | | 0:07:51.039,0:07:54.419 |
| Rui: A delta?
| | On the other hand, you can have a situation |
| Vipul: That is what the concrete definition
| | with the real sense limit, the limit for the |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:16.530,0:03:18.530 | | 0:07:54.419,0:08:00.819 |
| says, but what would the
| | function of reals doesn't exist but the sequence |
| conceptual thing say?
| | limit still exists like this set up. Right? |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:18.530,0:03:21.680 | | 0:08:00.819,0:08:05.569 |
| Rui: A neighborhood.
| | Now, there is a little caveat that I want |
| Vipul: Of what? [ANSWER!]
| | to add. If the real sense limit doesn't exist |
| | |
| | 0:08:05.569,0:08:11.069 |
| | as a finite number but it's say plus infinity |
| | then the sequence limit also has to be plus |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:21.680,0:03:28.680 | | 0:08:11.069,0:08:16.150 |
| Rui: Of c.
| | infinity. If the real sense limit is minus |
| Vipul: Of c, of the domain. The goal of picking
| | infinity, then the sequence limit also has |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:34.639,0:03:37.970 | | 0:08:16.150,0:08:20.330 |
| delta is to find a
| | to be minus infinity. So, this type of situation, |
| neighborhood of c. Points to the immediate
| | where the real sense limit doesn't exist but |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:37.970,0:03:44.919 | | 0:08:20.330,0:08:26.840 |
| left and immediate
| | the sequence exists, well, will happen in |
| right of c. There exists a choice of neighborhood
| | kind of oscillatory type of situations. Where |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:44.919,0:03:51.919 | | 0:08:26.840,0:08:31.409 |
| of c such that, by
| | the real sense you have an oscillating thing |
| the way I sometimes abbreviate, such that, | | and in the sequence thing on the other hand |
|
| |
|
| 0:03:59.850,0:04:06.109 | | 0:08:31.409,0:08:36.330 |
| as s.t., okay, don't get
| | you somehow manage to pick a bunch of points |
| confused by that. Okay, what next? Let's
| | where that oscillation doesn't create a problem. |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:06.109,0:04:12.309 | | 0:08:36.330,0:08:36.789 |
| bring out the thing. The next
| | Okay? |
| thing is for all x with |x - c| less than
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:12.309,0:04:19.309 | | 0:08:36.789,0:08:43.630 |
| ... all x in the neighborhood
| | Now, why is this important? Well, it's important |
| except the point c itself. So what should
| | because in a lot of cases when you have to |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:20.040,0:04:27.040 | | 0:08:43.630,0:08:50.630 |
| come here? For all x in the
| | calculate limits of sequences, you just calculate |
| neighborhood of c, I put x not equal to c.
| | them by doing, essentially, just calculating |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:36.570,0:04:37.160 | | 0:08:53.230,0:09:00.230 |
| Is that clear?
| | the limits of the function defining the sequence |
| | as a limit of a real valued function. Okay? |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:37.160,0:04:37.520 | | 0:09:00.230,0:09:03.460 |
| Rui: Yes.
| | So, for instance if I ask you what is limit |
| | ... |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:37.520,0:04:44.520 | | 0:09:03.460,0:09:10.460 |
| Vipul: x not equal to c in the neighborhood
| | Okay. I'll ask you what is limit [as] n approaches |
| chosen for c. The reason
| | infinity of n^2(n + 1)/(n^3 + 1) or something |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:49.310,0:04:53.360 | | 0:09:15.200,0:09:22.200 |
| we're excluding the point c that we take the
| | like that. Right? Some rational function. |
| limit at the point and we
| | You just do this calculation as if you were |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:53.360,0:04:55.770 | | 0:09:25.430,0:09:29.720 |
| just care about stuff around, we don't care | | just doing a limit of a real function, function |
| about what is happening at
| | of real numbers, right? The answer you get |
|
| |
|
| 0:04:55.770,0:05:02.770 | | 0:09:29.720,0:09:33.060 |
| the point. For c...this chosen neighborhood...I
| | will be the correct one. If it's a finite |
| am writing the black
| | number it will be the same finite number. |
| | |
| 0:05:09.880,0:05:14.440
| |
| for choices that the skeptic makes and the
| |
| red for the choices the
| |
| | |
| 0:05:14.440,0:05:16.490
| |
| prover makes, actually that's reverse of what
| |
| I did in the other
| |
| | |
| 0:05:16.490,0:05:21.320
| |
| video, but that's ok. They can change colors.
| |
| If you have seen that
| |
| | |
| 0:05:21.320,0:05:24.710
| |
| limit game thing, this color pattern just
| |
| [means] ... the black
| |
| | |
| 0:05:24.710,0:05:28.400
| |
| matches with the skeptic choices and the red
| |
| matches what the prover
| |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:28.400,0:05:32.710 | | 0:09:33.060,0:09:37.850 |
| chooses. If you haven't seen that, it is
| | In this case it will just be one. But any |
| not an issue. Just imagine
| | rational function, if the answer is finite, |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:32.710,0:05:35.820 | | 0:09:37.850,0:09:44.070 |
| it's a single color. | | same answer for the sequence. If it is plus |
| | infinity, same answer for the sequence. If |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:35.820,0:05:40.820 | | 0:09:44.070,0:09:46.250 |
| What happens next? What do we need to check
| | it is minus infinity, same answer as for the |
| in order to say this limit
| | sequence. |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:40.820,0:05:42.950 | | 0:09:46.250,0:09:53.250 |
| is L? So f(x) should be where? | | However, if the answer you get for the real-sense |
| | limit is oscillatory type of non existence, |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:42.950,0:05:44.980 | | 0:09:54.660,0:09:59.410 |
| Rui: In the neighborhood of L.
| | then that's inconclusive as far as the sequence |
| | is concerned. You actually have to think about |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:44.980,0:05:48.060 | | 0:09:59.410,0:10:05.520 |
| Vipul: Yeah. In the concrete definition we
| | the sequence case and figure out for yourself |
| said f(x) minus L is less
| | what happens to the limit. Okay? If might |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:48.060,0:05:51.440 | | 0:10:05.520,0:10:07.230 |
| than epsilon. Right, but that is just stating
| | in |
| that f(x) is in the | | fact be the case that the sequence limit actually |
|
| |
|
| 0:05:51.440,0:05:58.440 | | 0:10:07.230,0:10:11.380 |
| chosen neighborhood. So f(x) is in the chosen
| | does exist even though the real sense [limit] |
| neighborhood of...Now
| | is oscillatory. Okay. |
| | | </toggledisplay> |
| 0:06:08.470,0:06:15.470
| |
| that we have this blueprint for the definition.
| |
| This is a blueprint
| |
| | |
| 0:06:25.660,0:06:32.660
| |
| for the definition. We'll write it in blue.
| |
| What I mean is, now if I
| |
| | |
| 0:06:34.930,0:06:40.700
| |
| ask you to define a limit, in a slightly different
| |
| context; you just
| |
| | |
| 0:06:40.700,0:06:46.280
| |
| have to figure out in order to make this rigorous
| |
| definition. What
| |
| | |
| 0:06:46.280,0:06:49.240
| |
| word do you need to understand the meaning
| |
| of? [ANSWER!]
| |
| | |
| 0:06:49.240,0:06:53.780
| |
| Rui: Neighborhood.
| |
| Vipul: Neighborhood, right. That's the magic
| |
| | |
| 0:06:53.780,0:06:59.810
| |
| word behind which I am
| |
| hiding the details. If you can understand
| |
| | |
| 0:06:59.810,0:07:06.280
| |
| what I mean by neighborhood
| |
| then you can turn this into a concrete definition.</toggledisplay>
| |
| | |
| ===Functions of one variable case===
| |
| | |
| The following definitions of neighborhood are good enough to define limits.
| |
| | |
| * For points in the interior of the domain, for functions of one variable: We can take an open interval centered at the point. For a point <math>c</math>, such an open interval is of the form <math>(c - t, c + t), t > 0</math>. Note that if we exclude the point <math>c</math> itself, we get <math>(c - t,c) \cup (c,c + t)</math>.
| |
| * For the point <math>+\infty</math>, for functions of one variable: We take intervals of the form <math>(a,\infty)</math>, where <math>a \in \R</math>.
| |
| * For the point <math>-\infty</math>, for functions of one variable: We can take interval of the form <math>(-\infty,a)</math>, where <math>a \in \R</math>.
| |
| | |
| We can now list the nine cases of limits, combining finite and infinite possibilities:
| |
| | |
| {| class="sortable" border="1"
| |
| ! Case !! Definition
| |
| |-
| |
| | <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>), we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L +\varepsilon)</math>).
| |
| |-
| |
| | <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = -\infty</math> || For every <math>a \in \R</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>), we have <math>f(x) < a</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (-\infty,a)</math>).
| |
| |-
| |
| | <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = \infty</math> || For every <math>a \in \R</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>), we have <math>f(x) > a</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (a,\infty)</math>).
| |
| |-
| |
| | <math>\lim_{x \to -\infty} f(x) = L</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x < a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (-\infty,a)</math>), we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L +\varepsilon)</math>).
| |
| |-
| |
| | <math>\lim_{x \to -\infty} f(x) = -\infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x < a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (-\infty,a)</math>), we have <math>f(x) < b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (-\infty,b)</math>).
| |
| |-
| |
| | <math>\lim_{x \to -\infty} f(x) = \infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x < a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (-\infty,a)</math>), we have <math>f(x) > b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (b,\infty)</math>).
| |
| |-
| |
| | <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = L</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x > a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>), we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L +\varepsilon)</math>).
| |
| |-
| |
| | <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = -\infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x > a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>), we have <math>f(x) < b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (-\infty,b)</math>).
| |
| |-
| |
| | <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = \infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x > a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>), we have <math>f(x) > b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (b,\infty)</math>).
| |
| |}
| |
| | |
| <center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=EOQby7b-WrA}}</center>
| |
| | |
| ===Limit of sequence versus real-sense limit===
| |
| | |
| Recall that the limit of a real-valued function to infinity is defined as follows:
| |
| | |
| <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = L</math> means that:
| |
| | |
| * For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>
| |
| * there exists <math>a \in \R</math> (we're thinking of the neighborhood <math>(a,\infty)</math>) such that
| |
| * for all <math>x > a</math> (i.e. <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>)
| |
| * we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>).
| |
| | |
| Suppose now instead that <math>f</math> is a function restricted to the natural numbers. We can think of <math>f</math> as a [[sequence]], namely the sequence <math>f(1), f(2), \dots</math>. In that case:
| |
| | |
| <math>\lim_{n \to \infty, n \in \mathbb{N}} f(n) = L</math> (in words, the sequence converges to <math>L</math>) means that:
| |
| | |
| * For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>
| |
| * there exists <math>n_0 \in \mathbb{N}</math> such that
| |
| * for all <math>n \in \mathbb{N}</math> satisfying <math>n > n_0</math>,
| |
| * we have <math>|f(n) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(n) \in (L - \varepsilon, L + \varepsilon)</math>).
| |
| | |
| The definitions differ both in their second and third line. However, the difference in the second line (the use of a real number versus a natural number to specify the threshold for the trapping interval) is not important, i.e., we could swap these lines between the definitions without changing the sense of either definition. The key difference between the definitions lies in their third lines. In the real-sense limit definition case, we require trapping of the function value close to the claimed limit for ''all sufficiently large reals'' whereas the sequence limit definition requires trapping only for ''all sufficiently large natural numbers''.
| |
| | |
| To understand this distinction, consider the following: if <math>f</math> is defined on reals, and it has a real-sense limit, i.e., <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = L</math> for some <math>L \in \mathbb{R}</math>, then it must also be true that <math>\lim_{n \to \infty, n \in \mathbb{N}} f(n) = L</math>. However, it is possible for <math>f</math> to have a sequence limit but not have a real-sense limit. For instance, the function <math>f(x) := \sin(\pi x)</math> has <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x)</math> undefined but <math>\lim_{n \to \infty, n \in \mathbb{N}} f(n)</math> is zero, because <math>f</math> takes the value 0 at all integers.
| |
| | |
| <center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=P9APtpIE4y8}}</center>
| |
|
| |
|
| ===Real-valued functions of multiple variables case=== | | ===Real-valued functions of multiple variables case=== |
ORIGINAL FULL PAGE: Limit
STUDY THE TOPIC AT MULTIPLE LEVELS:
ALSO CHECK OUT: Quiz (multiple choice questions to test your understanding) |Page with videos on the topic, both embedded and linked to
This page lists a core term of calculus. The term is used widely, and a thorough understanding of its definition is critical.
See a complete list of core terminology
Motivation
Quick summary
The term "limit" in mathematics is closely related to one of the many senses in which the term "limit" is used in day-to-day English. In day-to-day English, there are two uses of the term "limit":
- Limit as something that one approaches, or is headed toward
- Limit as a boundary or cap that cannot be crossed or exceeded
The mathematical term "limit" refers to the first of these two meanings. In other words, the mathematical concept of limit is a formalization of the intuitive concept of limit as something that one approaches or is headed toward.
For a function
, the notation:
is meant to say "the limit, as
approaches
, of the function value
" and thus, the mathematical equality:
is meant to say "the limit, as
approaches
, of the function value
, is
." In a rough sense, what this means is that as
gets closer and closer to
,
eventually comes, and stays, close enough to
.
Graphical interpretation
The graphical interpretation of "
" is that, if we move along the graph
of the function
in the plane, then the graph approaches the point
whether we make
approach
from the left or the right. However, this interpretation works well only if
is continuous on the immediate left and immediate right of
.
This interpretation is sometimes termed the "two finger test" where one finger is used to follow the graph for
slightly less than
and the other finger is used to follow the graph for
slightly greater than
.
The interpretation is problematic in that it is not really a definition, and fails to have computational utility for wildly oscillatory functions or functions with other forms of weird behavior.
Two key ideas
The concept of limit involves two key ideas, both of which help explain why the definition is structured the way it is:
- Arbitrarily close: The limit depends on how things behave arbitrarily close to the point involved. The notion of "arbitrarily close" is difficult to quantify non-mathematically, but what it means is that any fixed distance is too much. For instance, if doing
, we can take points close to 2 such as 2.1, 2.01, 2.001, 2.0001, 2.0000001, 2.000000000000001. Any of these points, viewed in and of itself, is too far from 2 to offer any meaningful information. It is only the behavior in the limit, as we get arbitrarily close, that matters.
- Trapping of the function close by: For a function to have a certain limit at a point, it is not sufficient to have the function value come close to that point. Rather, for
to hold, it is necessary that for
very close to
, the function value
is trapped close to
. It is not enough that it keeps oscillating between being close to
and being far from
.
{{#widget:YouTube|id=iZ_fCNvYa9U}}
Full timed transcript: [SHOW MORE]
0:00:15.549,0:00:19.259
Vipul: Okay, so in this talk, I'm going to
go over the basic
0:00:19.259,0:00:24.619
motivation behind the definition of limit,
and not so much the
0:00:24.619,0:00:28.099
epsilon-delta definition. This is just an intuitive idea,
and a few somewhat
0:00:28.099,0:00:29.680
non-intuitive aspects of that.
0:00:29.680,0:00:36.680
Here I have the notation: "limit as x approaches
c of f(x) is L" is
0:00:37.540,0:00:42.079
written like this. Limit ... Under the limit,
we write where the
0:00:42.079,0:00:46.180
domain point goes, so x is approaching a value,
c, and c could be an
0:00:46.180,0:00:51.059
actual number. x, however, will always be
a variable letter. This x
0:00:51.059,0:00:54.519
will not be a number. c could be a number
like zero, one, two, three,
0:00:54.519,0:00:55.329
or something.
0:00:55.329,0:01:02.050
f(x). f is the function. We are saying that
as x approaches some
0:01:02.050,0:01:06.640
number c, f(x) approaches some number L, and
that's what this is:
0:01:06.640,0:01:09.030
Limit as x approaches c of f(x) is L.
0:01:09.030,0:01:15.259
Now what does this mean? Roughly what it means
is that as x is coming
0:01:15.259,0:01:22.259
closer and closer to c, f(x) is sort of hanging
around L. It's coming
0:01:22.410,0:01:28.720
closer and closer to L. By the way, there
are two senses in which the
0:01:28.720,0:01:32.429
word limit is used in the English language:
One meaning is limit in
0:01:32.429,0:01:36.310
this approach sense, which is the mathematical
meaning of limit.
0:01:36.310,0:01:41.319
There is another sense in which the word limit
is used in the English
0:01:41.319,0:01:46.220
language, which is limit as a boundary or as a cap or as a bound.
0:01:46.220,0:01:53.160
We may say, there is a limit to how many apples
you can eat from the
0:01:53.160,0:01:58.640
fruit bowl or something, and that sense of
limit is not used ... for
0:01:58.640,0:02:02.110
that sense of limit you do not use the word
"limit" in mathematics. For
0:02:02.110,0:02:05.899
that sense of limit, you use the word bound.
In mathematics, we
0:02:05.899,0:02:11.800
reserve the use of the word limit only for
this approach sense. Just
0:02:11.800,0:02:18.800
so we don't get confused in mathematics.
As I said, the idea is that
0:02:21.120,0:02:25.760
as x approaches c, f(x) approaches L, so as
x is coming closer and
0:02:25.760,0:02:29.480
closer to c, the distance between x and c
is becoming smaller and
0:02:29.480,0:02:32.740
smaller, the distance between f(x) and L is
also roughly becoming
0:02:32.740,0:02:37.980
smaller and smaller. This doesn't quite
work unless your function is
0:02:37.980,0:02:41.250
increasing or decreasing near c, so you could
have various
0:02:41.250,0:02:46.750
complications with oscillatory functions,
so the point is this notion
0:02:46.750,0:02:52.170
doesn't really ... it's not very clear what
we mean here without further
0:02:52.170,0:02:55.470
elaboration and without a clear definition.
0:02:55.470,0:03:02.470
I'm going to sort of move up toward the definition,
and before we go
0:03:02.970,0:03:09.180
there, I want to say, that there is a graphical
concept of limit,
0:03:09.180,0:03:13.430
which you may have seen in school. (well,
if you've seen limits in
0:03:13.430,0:03:17.110
school, which hopefully you have. This video
is sort of more of a
0:03:17.110,0:03:21.500
review type than learning it for the first
time). Let's try to
0:03:21.500,0:03:24.630
understand this from that point of view.
0:03:24.630,0:03:31.630
Let's say, you have a function whose graph
looks something like this.
0:03:35.990,0:03:42.990
This is x is c, so this is the value x is
c, and this is the graph of
0:03:44.069,0:03:48.310
the function, these curves are the graph of
the function, so where x
0:03:48.310,0:03:53.900
is less than c, the graph is along this curve.
For x greater than c,
0:03:53.900,0:03:58.120
the graph is this curve. So x less than c,
the graph is this curve; x
0:03:58.120,0:04:01.740
greater than c, the graph is this curve. At
x equal to c, the value
0:04:01.740,0:04:06.330
is that filled dot.
0:04:06.330,0:04:13.330
You can see from here that as x is approaching
c from the left, so if
0:04:13.880,0:04:17.819
you take values of x, which are slightly less
than c, the function
0:04:17.819,0:04:23.259
values ... so the function, the graph of it,
the function values are
0:04:23.259,0:04:27.449
their respective y coordinates, so this is
x, this is y, this is the
0:04:27.449,0:04:34.449
graph. y is f(x). When x is to the immediate
left of c, the value, y
0:04:35.749,0:04:42.749
value, the y equals f(x) value is ... are
these values, so this or
0:04:44.610,0:04:51.610
this. As x approaches c from the left, the
y values are approaching
0:04:53.699,0:04:57.240
the y coordinate of this open circle.
0:04:57.240,0:05:04.240
In a sense, if you just were looking at the
limit from the left for x
0:05:05.680,0:05:10.830
approaching c from the left, then the limit
would be the y coordinate
0:05:10.830,0:05:16.279
of this open circle. You can also see an x
approaches c from the
0:05:16.279,0:05:22.749
right, so approaches from here ... the y coordinate
is approaching the y
0:05:22.749,0:05:29.749
coordinate of this thing, this open circle
on top. There are actually
0:05:31.009,0:05:38.009
two concepts here, the left-hand limit
is this value. We will call
this L1. The right-hand limit is this value,
0:05:45.599,0:05:49.349
L2, so the left-hand
limit, which is the notation as limit as x
0:05:49.349,0:05:56.349
approaches c from the left
of f(x) is L1, the right-hand limit from the
0:05:58.089,0:06:05.089
right, that's plus of f(x),
is L2, and the value f of c is some third
0:06:08.059,0:06:15.059
number. We don't know what
it is, but f of c, L1, L2, are in this case
0:06:16.770,0:06:18.360
all different.
0:06:18.360,0:06:25.360
What does this mean as far as the limit is
concerned? Well, the
0:06:25.900,0:06:28.259
concept of limit is usually a concept of two
sided limit, which
0:06:28.259,0:06:33.419
means that in this case the limit as x approaches
c of f(x) does not
0:06:33.419,0:06:36.289
exist because you have a left-hand limit,
and you have a right-hand
0:06:36.289,0:06:39.860
limit, and they are not equal to each other.
The value, as such,
0:06:39.860,0:06:43.279
doesn't matter, so whether the value exists,
what it is, does not
0:06:43.279,0:06:46.379
affect this concept of limit, but the real
problem here is that the
0:06:46.379,0:06:48.490
left-hand limit and right-hand limit are not
equal. The left-hand
0:06:48.490,0:06:55.490
limit is here; the right-hand limit is up
here.
0:06:59.050,0:07:03.499
This graphical interpretation, you see the
graphical interpretation is
0:07:03.499,0:07:07.749
sort of that: for the left-hand limit, you
basically sort of follow
0:07:07.749,0:07:11.499
the graph on the immediate left and see where
it's headed to and you
0:07:11.499,0:07:15.789
get the y coordinate of that. For the right-hand
limit, you follow
0:07:15.789,0:07:21.129
the graph on the right and see where we're
headed to, and get the y
0:07:21.129,0:07:22.240
coordinate of that.
0:07:22.240,0:07:29.240
Let me make an example, where the limit does
exist. Let's say you
0:07:42.899,0:07:48.449
have a picture, something like this. In this
case, the left-hand limit
0:07:48.449,0:07:52.610
and right-hand limit are the same thing, so
this number, but the
0:07:52.610,0:07:55.889
value is different. You could also have
a situation where the value
0:07:55.889,0:08:00.460
doesn't exist at all. The function isn't
defined at the point, but
0:08:00.460,0:08:03.139
the limit still exists because the left-hand
limit and right-hand
0:08:03.139,0:08:04.719
limit are the same.
0:08:04.719,0:08:09.979
Now, all these examples, there's sort of a
crude way of putting this
0:08:09.979,0:08:13.710
idea, which is called the two-finger test.
You may have heard it in
0:08:13.710,0:08:18.399
some slightly different names. The two-finger
test idea is that you
0:08:18.399,0:08:23.929
use one finger to trace the curve on the immediate
left and see where
0:08:23.929,0:08:28.259
that's headed to, and use another finger
to trace the curve on the
0:08:28.259,0:08:33.640
immediate right and see where that's headed
to, and if your two
0:08:33.640,0:08:38.270
fingers can meet each other, then the place
where they meet, the y
0:08:38.270,0:08:41.870
coordinate of that, is the limit. If, however,
they do not come to
0:08:41.870,0:08:46.940
meet each other, which happens in this case,
one of them is here, one
0:08:46.940,0:08:51.120
is here, and then the limit doesn't exist
because the left-hand limit
0:08:51.120,0:08:53.509
and right-hand limit are not equal.
0:08:53.509,0:08:59.819
This, hopefully, you have seen in great detail
when you've done
0:08:59.819,0:09:05.779
limits in detail in school. However, what
I want to say here is that
0:09:05.779,0:09:11.850
this two-finger test is not really a good
definition of limit. What's
0:09:11.850,0:09:13.600
the problem? The problem is that you could
have really crazy
0:09:13.600,0:09:18.790
function, and it's really hard to move your
finger along the graph of
0:09:18.790,0:09:25.220
the function. If the function sort of jumps
around a lot, it's really
0:09:25.220,0:09:29.440
hard, and it doesn't really solve any problem.
It's not really a
0:09:29.440,0:09:35.100
mathematically pure thing. It's like trying
to answer the
0:09:35.100,0:09:39.540
mathematical question using a physical description,
which is sort of
0:09:39.540,0:09:41.579
the wrong type of answer.
0:09:41.579,0:09:45.610
While this is very good for a basic intuition
for very simple types of
0:09:45.610,0:09:50.040
functions, it's not actually the correct idea
of limit. What kind of
0:09:50.040,0:09:56.990
things could give us trouble? Why do we need
to refine our
0:09:56.990,0:10:03.209
understanding of limit? The main thing is
functions which have a lot
0:10:03.209,0:10:07.980
of oscillation. Let me do an example.
0:10:07.980,0:10:14.980
I'm now going to write down a type of function
where, in fact, you
0:10:18.220,0:10:21.899
have to develop a clear cut concept of limit
to be able to answer this
0:10:21.899,0:10:28.899
question precisely. This is a graph of a function,
sine 1 over x.
0:10:28.959,0:10:32.920
Now this looks a little weird. It's not 1
over sine x; that would
0:10:32.920,0:10:39.920
just equal cosecant x. It's not that. It's sine
of 1 over x, and this
0:10:44.879,0:10:50.220
function itself is not defined at x equals
zero, but just the fact
0:10:50.220,0:10:52.660
that that's not defined, isn't good enough
for us to say the limit
0:10:52.660,0:10:55.139
doesn't exist; we actually have
to try to make a picture
0:10:55.139,0:10:57.660
of this and try to understand what the limit
is going to be.
0:10:57.660,0:11:04.660
Let's first make the picture of sine x. Sine-x
looks like that. How
0:11:12.560,0:11:19.560
will sine 1 over x look? Let's start off where
x is nearly infinity.
0:11:20.100,0:11:25.759
When x is very large positive, 1 over x is
near zero, slightly
0:11:25.759,0:11:30.660
positive, just slightly bigger than zero,
and sine 1 over x is
0:11:30.660,0:11:36.879
therefore slightly positive. It's like here.
It's going to start off
0:11:36.879,0:11:42.810
with an asymptote, a horizontal asymptote, at zero.
Then it's going to sort of go
0:11:42.810,0:11:49.420
this path, but much more slowly, each one,
then it's going to go this
0:11:49.420,0:11:56.420
path, but in reverse, so like that. Then it's
going to go this path,
0:11:57.149,0:12:00.740
but now it does all these oscillations, all
of these oscillations. It
0:12:00.740,0:12:03.569
has to go faster and faster.
0:12:03.569,0:12:10.569
For instance, this is pi, this 1 over pi,
then this is 2 pi, this
0:12:12.329,0:12:16.990
number is 1 over 2 pi, then the then next
time it reaches zero will be
0:12:16.990,0:12:21.160
1 over 3 pi, and so on. What's going to
happen is that near zero it's
0:12:21.160,0:12:24.579
going to be crazily oscillating between minus
1, and 1. The frequency
0:12:24.579,0:12:29.170
of the oscillation keeps getting faster and
faster as you come closer
0:12:29.170,0:12:34.050
and closer to zero. The same type of picture
on the left side as
0:12:34.050,0:12:40.360
well; it's just that it's an odd function.
It's this kind of picture.
0:12:40.360,0:12:47.360
I'll make a bigger picture here ... I'll make
a bigger picture on another
0:12:53.649,0:13:00.649
one. all of these oscillation should be between
minus 1 and 1, and we
0:13:22.439,0:13:29.399
get faster so we get faster and faster, and
now my pen is too thick.
0:13:29.399,0:13:31.600
It's the same, even if you used your finger
instead of the pen to
0:13:31.600,0:13:38.600
place it, it would be too thick, it's called
the thick finger problem.
0:13:38.850,0:13:45.060
I'm not being very accurate here, but just
the idea. The pen or
0:13:45.060,0:13:49.199
finger is too thick, but actually, there's
a very thin line, and it's
0:13:49.199,0:13:52.519
an infinitely thin line of the graph, which
goes like that.
0:13:52.519,0:13:59.519
Let's get back to our question: What is limit
as x approaches zero,
0:14:02.699,0:14:09.699
sine 1 over x. I want you to think about this
a bit. Think about like
0:14:13.439,0:14:18.050
the finger test. You move your finger around,
move it like this,
0:14:18.050,0:14:21.579
this, this ... you're sort of getting close
to zero but still not quite
0:14:21.579,0:14:28.579
reaching it. It's ... where are you headed?
It's kind of a little
0:14:31.610,0:14:36.879
unclear. Notice, it's not that just because
we plug in zero doesn't
0:14:36.879,0:14:39.170
make sense, the limit doesn't... That's
not the issue. The issue is
0:14:39.170,0:14:43.249
that after you make the graph, it's unclear
what's happening.
0:14:43.249,0:14:49.329
One kind of logic is that, yeah, the limit
is zero? Why? Well, it's
0:14:49.329,0:14:52.949
kind of balanced around zero, right? It's a bit
above and below, and it keeps
0:14:52.949,0:14:59.949
coming close to zero. That any number of the
form x is 1 over N pi,
0:15:00.329,0:15:07.329
sine 1 over x is zero. It keeps coming close
to zero. As x
0:15:07.990,0:15:12.459
approaches zero, this number keeps coming
close to zero.
0:15:12.459,0:15:17.449
If you think of limit as something it's
approaching, then as x
0:15:17.449,0:15:24.449
approaches zero, sine 1 over x is sort of
coming close to zero, is it?
0:15:31.230,0:15:36.550
It's definitely coming near zero, right? Anything
you make around
0:15:36.550,0:15:41.920
zero, any small ... this you make around zero,
the graph is going to
0:15:41.920,0:15:42.399
enter that.
0:15:42.399,0:15:47.269
On the other hand, it's not really staying
close to zero. It's kind of
0:15:47.269,0:15:50.300
oscillating within [-1,1]. However
small an interval you
0:15:50.300,0:15:54.540
take around zero on the x thing, the function
is oscillating between
0:15:54.540,0:15:57.600
minus 1 and 1. It's not staying faithful to
zero.
0:15:57.600,0:16:02.249
Now you have kind of this question: What should
be the correct
0:16:02.249,0:16:09.249
definition of this limit? Should it mean that
it approaches the
0:16:10.029,0:16:15.100
point, but maybe goes in and out, close and
far? Or should it mean it
0:16:15.100,0:16:18.879
approaches and stays close to the point? That
is like a judgment you
0:16:18.879,0:16:22.629
have to make in the definition, and it so
happens that people who
0:16:22.629,0:16:28.639
tried defining this chose the latter idea;
that is, it should come
0:16:28.639,0:16:33.089
close and stay close. So that's actually
key idea number two we have
0:16:33.089,0:16:38.290
here the function ... for the function to
have a limit at the point, the
0:16:38.290,0:16:43.639
function needs to be trapped near the limit,
close to the point in the
0:16:43.639,0:16:45.079
domain.
0:16:45.079,0:16:49.459
This is, therefore, it doesn't have a limit
at zero because the
0:16:49.459,0:16:54.420
function is oscillating too widely. You cannot
trap it. You cannot
0:16:54.420,0:17:01.059
trap the function values. You cannot say that...
you cannot trap the
0:17:01.059,0:17:08.059
function value, say, in this small horizontal
strip near zero. You
0:17:08.319,0:17:11.650
cannot trap in the area, so that means the
limit cannot be zero, but
0:17:11.650,0:17:15.400
the same logic works anywhere else. The limit
cannot be half, because
0:17:15.400,0:17:20.440
you cannot trap the function in a small horizontal
strip about half
0:17:20.440,0:17:22.130
whereas x approaches zero.
0:17:22.130,0:17:26.440
We will actually talk about this example in
great detail in our future
0:17:26.440,0:17:30.330
with you after we've seen the formal definition,
but the key idea you
0:17:30.330,0:17:33.890
need to remember is that the function doesn't
just need to come close
0:17:33.890,0:17:37.340
to the point of its limit. It actually needs
to stay close. It needs
0:17:37.340,0:17:41.050
to be trapped near the point.
0:17:41.050,0:17:44.810
The other important idea regarding limits
is that the limit depends
0:17:44.810,0:17:50.370
only on the behavior very, very close to the
point. What do I mean by
0:17:50.370,0:17:56.580
very, very close? If you were working it like,
the real goal, you may
0:17:56.580,0:18:02.300
say, it's like, think of some really small
number and you say that
0:18:02.300,0:18:07.050
much distance from it. Let's say I want to
get the limit as x
0:18:07.050,0:18:14.050
approaches 2...I'll just write it here. I
want to get, let's say,
0:18:23.520,0:18:30.520
limit has x approaches 2 of some function,
we may say, well, we sort
0:18:30.550,0:18:37.550
of ... what's close enough? Is 2.1 close
enough? No, that's too far.
0:18:38.750,0:18:43.380
What about 2.0000001? Is that close enough?
0:18:43.380,0:18:47.420
Now, if you weren't a mathematician, you
would probably say, "Yes,
0:18:47.420,0:18:54.420
this is close enough." The difference is like
... so it's
0:18:57.040,0:19:04.040
10^{-7}. It's really only close to 2 compared
to our usual sense of
0:19:12.990,0:19:16.670
numbers, but as far as mathematics is concerned,
both of these numbers
0:19:16.670,0:19:21.110
are really far from 2. Any individual number
that is not 2 is very
0:19:21.110,0:19:22.130
far from 2.
0:19:22.130,0:19:29.130
What do I mean by that, well, think back to
one of our
0:19:29.670,0:19:36.670
pictures. Here's a picture. Supposed I take
some points. Let's say
0:19:41.970,0:19:47.640
this is 2, and suppose I take one point here,
which is really close to
0:19:47.640,0:19:50.970
2, and I just change the value of the function
at that point. I
0:19:50.970,0:19:55.200
change the value of the function at that point,
or I just change the
0:19:55.200,0:19:59.990
entire picture of the graph from that point
rightward. I just take
0:19:59.990,0:20:05.940
this picture, and I change it to, let's say
... so I replace this
0:20:05.940,0:20:11.410
picture by that picture, or I replace the
picture by some totally new
0:20:11.410,0:20:15.250
picture like that picture. I just change the
part of the graph to the
0:20:15.250,0:20:21.440
right of some point, like 2.00001, whatever.
Will that effect the
0:20:21.440,0:20:25.770
limit at 2? No, because the limit at 2 really
depends only on the
0:20:25.770,0:20:27.520
behavior if you're really, really close.
0:20:27.520,0:20:32.040
If you take any fixed point, which is not
2, and you change the
0:20:32.040,0:20:35.000
behavior, sort of at that point or
farther away than that
0:20:35.000,0:20:42.000
point, then the behavior close to 2 doesn't
get affected. That's the
0:20:42.820,0:20:46.660
other key idea here. Actually I did these
in reverse order.
0:20:46.660,0:20:52.060
That's how it was coming naturally, but I'll
just say it again.
0:20:52.060,0:20:56.570
The limit depends on the behavior arbitrarily
close to the point. It
0:20:56.570,0:21:00.210
doesn't depend on the behavior at any single
specific other point. It
0:21:00.210,0:21:06.910
just depends on the behavior as you approach
the point and any other
0:21:06.910,0:21:11.330
point is far away. It's only sort of together
that all the other
0:21:11.330,0:21:16.230
points matter, and it's only them getting
really close that
0:21:16.230,0:21:19.790
matters. The other thing is that the function
actually needs to be
0:21:19.790,0:21:26.790
trapped near the point for the limit notion
to be true. This type of
0:21:26.860,0:21:29.650
picture where it's oscillating between minus
1 and 1, however close
0:21:29.650,0:21:35.150
you get to zero, keeps oscillating, and so
you cannot trap it around
0:21:35.150,0:21:40.590
any point. You cannot trap the function value
in any small enough
0:21:40.590,0:21:47.590
strip. In that case, the limit doesn't exist.
In subsequent videos,
0:21:48.550,0:21:54.630
we'll see the epsilon delta definition, we'll do a bit
of formalism to that, and
0:21:54.630,0:22:00.640
then we'll come back to some of these issues
later with the formal
0:22:00.640,0:22:01.870
understanding.
Checkpoint questions:
- To figure out the limit of a function at
, does the value of the function at
matter? Does the value of the function at
matter?
? How close is close enough?
- What is the limit
? What's the intuitive idea behind the reasoning? More formal versions of this reasoning will be introduced after we have seen the
definition.
Definition for finite limit for function of one variable
Two-sided limit
Suppose
is a function of one variable and
is a point such that
is defined to the immediate left and immediate right of
(note that
may or may not be defined at
). In other words, there exists some value
such that
is defined on
.
For a given value
, we say that:
if the following holds:
For every
, there exists
such that for all
satisfying
, we have
.
The definition is broken down into its four clauses below:
Clause |
Interval description |
Symbol explanations
|
For every  |
 |
The symbol is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon". Although the definition customarily uses the letter , it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
|
there exists such that |
 |
The symbol is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta" Although the definition customarily uses the letter , it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
|
for all satisfying  |
 |
The symbol stands for the absolute value function.
stands for "is in the set" so the statements should be read as saying that is in the set described in the two equivalent ways.
stands for the union, so the statement that should be parsed as saying that or 
stands for set difference, so the statement can be parsed as saying that could be any value in except . The point is excluded because we do not want the value of at to affect the limit notion.
|
we have  |
 |
The symbol stands for the absolute value function.
stands for "is in the set" so the statement should be read as saying that is in the set .
|
The limit (also called the two-sided limit)
is defined as a value
such that
. By the uniqueness theorem for limits, there is at most one value of
for which
. Hence, it makes sense to talk of the limit when it exists.
{{#widget:YouTube|id=0vy0Fslxi-k}}
Full timed transcript: [SHOW MORE]
0:00:15.809,0:00:20.490
Vipul: In this talk, I'm going to introduce
the definition, the formal epsilon delta definition
0:00:20.490,0:00:24.669
of a two-sided limit for a function of a one
variable, that's called f.
0:00:24.669,0:00:31.349
I'm going to assume there is a point c and c
doesn't actually have to be in the domain of f.
0:00:31.349,0:00:38.030
Thus f doesn't have to be defined at c for this notion to
make sense rather f is defined around c.
0:00:38.030,0:00:44.909
What that means is f is defined on some open
set containing c.
0:00:51.009,0:01:03.009
Let's make a picture here so you have c,
c + t, c -- t.
0:01:03.040,0:01:11.040
What this is saying is there is some t probably
small enough so that the function is defined
0:01:12.549,0:01:18.590
in here and may be it's not defined at the
point c.
0:01:18.590,0:01:31.590
This set for some t>0. The function is defined
on the immediate left of c and it is defined
0:01:31.999,0:01:34.770
on the immediate right of c.
0:01:34.770,0:01:38.890
We need that in order to make sense of what
I'm going to say.
0:01:38.890,0:01:44.590
We say that limit as x approaches c of f(x)
is L where L is some other real number or
0:01:44.590,0:01:49.679
maybe it's the same real number [as c], so we say
this limit equals L, now I'll write the definition
0:01:49.679,0:01:56.679
in multiple lines just to be clear about the
parts of the definition.
0:01:56.770,0:02:39.770
For every epsilon > 0. This is epsilon. There
exists delta > 0 such that
for all x in R satisfying...what?
0:02:41.070,0:02:45.070
Rui: Satisfying |x -- c| ...
0:02:45.659,0:02:53.659
Vipul: [|x-c|] should be not equal to zero so zero
less than, exclude the point c itself,
0:02:54.810,0:02:56.930
less than delta. What do we have?
0:02:56.930,0:02:59.459
Rui: We have y is within.
0:02:59.459,0:03:04.260
Vipul: Well y is just f(x).
0:03:04.260,0:03:10.290
Rui: f(x_0)
0:03:14.290,0:03:16.819
Vipul: Well f(x) minus the claimed limit is?
0:03:17.219,0:03:18.040
Rui: L.
0:03:18.640,0:03:22.890
Vipul: You're thinking of continuity which is a
little different but here we have this less than?
0:03:22.890,0:03:24.569
Rui: Epsilon.
0:03:24.569,0:03:37.569
Vipul: Epsilon. Let me now just re-write these
conditions in interval notation.
0:03:37.830,0:03:40.031
What is this saying x in what interval? [ANSWER!]
0:03:40.040,0:03:43.519
Rui: c +- ...
0:03:43.519,0:03:49.840
Vipul: c- delta to c + delta excluding the
point c itself, that is what 0 < [|x -- c|] is telling us.
0:03:49.840,0:03:56.530
It is telling us x is within delta distance
of c, but it is not including c.
0:03:56.530,0:04:10.530
Another way of writing this is (c -- delta,c) union (c, c + delta)
0:04:12.810,0:04:19.340
x is either on immediate delta left of c or
it's on the immediate delta right of c.
0:04:21.040,0:04:31.040
You do something similar on the f(x) side
so what interval is this saying, f(x) is in what? [ANSWER!]
0:04:31.720,0:04:35.930
Rui: L -- epsilon, L + epsilon.
0:04:35.930,0:04:42.930
Vipul: Awesome. Instead of writing the conditions
in this inequality form you could have written
0:04:43.919,0:04:47.590
them in this form, so instead of writing this
you could have written this or this, instead
0:04:47.590,0:04:49.580
of writing this you could have written this.
0:04:50.080,0:04:59.500
If this statement is true, the way you read this is you say
limit as x approaches c of f(x) equals L.
0:04:59.500,0:05:07.500
Okay. Now how do we define the limit?
0:05:11.169,0:05:18.169
It's the number L for which the above holds. This should be
in quotes.
0:05:22.009,0:05:29.009
If a number L exists for which.
0:05:34.220,0:05:41.220
Now what would you need in order to show that
this definition makes sense?
0:05:47.919,0:05:52.919
Rui: I don't think I understand your question.
0:06:03.090,0:06:09.090
Vipul: What I mean is, what I wanted to ask
was what would you need to prove in order
0:06:09.990,0:06:14.889
to say the notion of the limit makes sense? Well,
you need to show that there is uniqueness here.
0:06:14.740,0:06:19.080
It cannot happen that the limit is some number
L and the limit is another number M so you
0:06:19.080,0:06:20.539
need to show uniqueness.
0:06:20.539,0:06:27.330
You need to show that if this holds for one
number L it cannot also hold for another number.
0:06:27.330,0:06:32.050
Once you have shown that then it you could
define it like this.
0:06:32.050,0:06:38.440
Now I should say "if it exists."
0:06:38.440,0:06:42.120
What I'm saying is that there is a uniqueness
theorem which we will prove some other time.
0:06:42.120,0:06:49.120
Which says that if this is true for one number
it cannot be true for any other number so
0:06:49.440,0:06:54.740
this statement is true for at the most one
value of L and if there is such a value of
0:06:54.740,0:06:55.050
L that's called the limit.
Checkpoint questions:
- In order to make sense of
where must the function
be defined? Must
be defined at
? If
exists, what can we say about its value?
- What's the formal definition of limit, i.e., what does
mean?
- How would you write the formal definition of limit using intervals rather than absolute value inequalities to describe where
and
should be?
- Why is there a "
" in the inequality
in the
definition? Why doesn't a
appear in the
part of the definition?
- In order to be able to talk of the limit
, what additional fact do we need beyond the definition of what
means?
Left-hand limit
Suppose
is a function of one variable and
is a point such that
is defined on the immediate left of
(note that
may or may not be defined at
). In other words, there exists some value
such that
is defined on
.
For a given value
, we say that:
if the following holds:
For every
, there exists
such that for all
satisfying
, we have
.
The definition is broken down into its four clauses below:
Clause |
Interval description |
Symbol explanations
|
For every  |
 |
The symbol is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon". Although the definition customarily uses the letter , it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
|
there exists such that |
 |
The symbol is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta" Although the definition customarily uses the letter , it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
|
for all satisfying  |
 |
The symbol stands for the absolute value function.
stands for "is in the set" so the statements should be read as saying that is in the set describing the immediate -left of .
|
we have  |
 |
The symbol stands for the absolute value function.
stands for "is in the set" so the statement should be read as saying that is in the set .
|
The left-hand limit (acronym LHL)
is defined as a value
such that
. By the uniqueness theorem for limits (one-sided version), there is at most one value of
for which
. Hence, it makes sense to talk of the left hand limit when it exists.
Right-hand limit
Suppose
is a function of one variable and
is a point such that
is defined on the immediate right of
(note that
may or may not be defined at
). In other words, there exists some value
such that
is defined on
.
For a given value
, we say that:
if the following holds:
For every
, there exists
such that for all
satisfying
, we have
.
The definition is broken down into its four clauses below:
Clause |
Interval description |
Symbol explanations
|
For every  |
 |
The symbol is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon". Although the definition customarily uses the letter , it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
|
there exists such that |
 |
The symbol is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta" Although the definition customarily uses the letter , it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
|
for all satisfying  |
 |
The symbol stands for the absolute value function.
stands for "is in the set" so the statements should be read as saying that is in the set describing the immediate -right of .
|
we have  |
 |
The symbol stands for the absolute value function.
stands for "is in the set" so the statement should be read as saying that is in the set .
|
The right-hand limit (acronym RHL)
is defined as a value
such that
. By the uniqueness theorem for limits (one-sided version), there is at most one value of
for which
. Hence, it makes sense to talk of the right hand limit when it exists.
Side-by-side comparison of the definitions
Clause for two-sided limit  |
Clause for left hand limit  |
Clause for right hand limit  |
Comments
|
For every  |
For every  |
For every  |
identical so far
|
there exists such that |
there exists such that |
there exists such that |
still identical
|
for all satisfying , i.e.,  |
for all satisfying , i.e.,  |
for all satisfying , i.e.,  |
this is the part that differs, in so far as it is the direction of domain approach that differs between the definitions.
|
we have , i.e.,  |
we have , i.e.,  |
we have , i.e.,  |
this part is again identical. Note that the left versus right is only about the direction of approach in the domain, not about the direction of approach of the function value.
|
{{#widget:YouTube|id=qBjqc78KGx0}}
Full timed transcript: [SHOW MORE]
0:00:15.940,0:00:20.740
Vipul: In this talk, I'm going to give definitions
of one-sided limits.
0:00:20.740,0:00:25.650
So it is going to be the left hand limit and
the right hand limit, and I'm going to basically
0:00:25.650,0:00:42.650
compare it with the definition of two-sided limit which was in
a previous video. Let's just write this down--left-hand limit.
0:00:44.110,0:00:48.679
Let me first remind you what the definition
of two-sided limit says.
0:00:48.679,0:00:57.679
So here's what it says. It says limit as x approaches
c, f(x) = L
0:00:58.469,0:01:03.140
so f has to be defined on the immediate left and
the immediate right of c.
0:01:03.140,0:01:07.960
It says that this is true if the following
holds so for every epsilon greater than zero
0:01:07.960,0:01:13.960
there exists a delta > 0 such that for all
x which are within delta of c
0:01:14.000,0:01:22.771
either delta on the left of c or within a delta on the
right of c we have that f(x) is within an epsilon
0:01:23.650,0:01:30.530
distance of L.
Okay. Now with the left and right hand limit
0:01:30.530,0:01:37.460
what we are trying to do we are trying to
consider only one-sided approaches on the, on the x
0:01:39.000,0:01:41.510
What will change when we do the left-hand limit,
0:01:42.001,0:01:44.641
what will be different from this definition?
[ANSWER!]
0:01:45.710,0:01:48.330
Rui: We approach c from the left.
0:01:48.330,0:01:52.790
Vipul: We'll approach c from the left so
what part of this definition will change? [ANSWER!]
0:01:52.790,0:01:54.880
Rui: From the fourth line?
0:01:54.880,0:01:56.890
Vipul: You mean this line?
0:01:56.890,0:02:06.810
Rui: Oh for all x within c distance, within delta distance of c
0:02:06.810,0:02:08.700
Vipul: So what will change?
0:02:08.700,0:02:14.020
Rui: We will not have (c, c + delta).
0:02:14.020,0:02:18.390
Vipul: This part won’t be there. We will
just be concerned about whether when x is
0:02:18.390,0:02:23.000
delta close on the left side of c, f(x) is here...
0:02:23.000,0:02:28.000
Will we change this one also to only include the left? [ANSWER!]
0:02:28.000,0:02:30.000
Or this one will remain as it is?
0:02:30.300,0:02:31.500
Rui: I think it will remain.
0:02:31.500,0:02:33.460
Vipul: It will remain as it is because we
0:02:33.460,0:02:35.340
are just saying as x approaches c from the left
0:02:35.340,0:02:36.340
f(x) approaches L.
0:02:36.340,0:02:43.340
We are not claiming that f(x) approaches L
from the left, okay? Let me make a number line picture.
0:02:51.750,0:02:56.130
We will do a full geometric understanding
of the thing later. Right now it's just very [formal].
0:02:56.130,0:03:00.850
So the function is defined on the immediate left
of c, maybe not defined at c. It is defined
0:03:00.850,0:03:01.920
on the immediate left of c.
0:03:01.920,0:03:06.410
We don’t even know if the function
is defined on the right of c and what we are
0:03:06.410,0:03:13.410
saying is that for any epsilon, so any epsilon
around L you can find a delta such that if you restrict
0:03:13.800,0:03:20.800
attention to the interval from c minus delta
to c [i.e., (c- delta, c) in math notation]
0:03:21.450,0:03:23.130
then the f value there is within the epsilon distance of L.
0:03:24.130,0:03:28.959
Now the f value could be epsilon to the left
or the right so we take left hand limit on
0:03:28.959,0:03:33.840
the domain side it doesn’t have to approach
from the left on the other side.
0:03:33.840,0:03:40.690
Let me just write down the full definition. We want to keep this on the side.
0:03:40.690,0:04:03.690
What it says that for every epsilon > 0 there
exists
0:04:05.180,0:04:16.680
by the way, the understanding of the what this definition
really means will come in another video you may have seen before this or after this
0:04:16.680,0:04:21.209
... for all x ... [continuing definition]
0:04:21.209,0:04:26.500
Now we should also change it if we are writing
in this form so how will it read now?
0:04:26.500,0:04:28.030
Rui: For all x ...
0:04:35.000,0:04:38.000
Vipul: So will you put x – c or c – x? [ANSWER!]
0:04:38.330,0:04:40.990
Rui: It will be x – c, oh c – x.
0:04:41.000,0:04:46.760
Vipul: c – x. Because you want c to be bigger
than x. You want x to be on the left of c.
0:04:46.850,0:05:01.850
What would this read, i.e. x is in (c – delta,c).
Okay.
0:05:05.000,0:05:11.460
What do we have? We have the same thing. This part doesn’t change.
0:05:13.000,0:05:19.000
Rui: f(x) is within epsilon distance of L.
0:05:34.400,0:05:40.400
Vipul: Why do I keep saying this thing about the
L approach doesn’t have to be from the left?
0:05:41.000,0:05:44.350
What’s the significance of that? Why is that important?
[ANSWER!]
0:05:45.000,0:05:51.000
Rui: It’s important because we don’t know
whether the function is decreasing or increasing
0:05:51.620,0:05:52.370
at that point.
0:05:52.370,0:05:55.750
Vipul: Yeah, so if your function is actually
increasing than L will also be approached
0:05:55.750,0:06:01.590
from the left, and if it’s decreasing it
will be approached from the right, but sometimes
0:06:01.590,0:06:07.590
it’s neither increasing nor decreasing, but it's still
true it approaches from one side, so that’s a
little complicated but the way
0:06:07.590,0:06:12.150
this comes up is that when you are dealing
with composition of functions, so when you
0:06:12.150,0:06:16.710
are doing one function and then applying another function to that and you have some results
0:06:16.710,0:06:18.440
with one-sided limits.
0:06:18.440,0:06:30.440
Let me just write this down. If you have one-sided
limits and you have composition,
0:06:31.610,0:06:39.550
so you are doing one function and then doing another
you have to be very careful.
0:06:45.050,0:06:48.350
You need to be very careful when you are doing
one-sided limits and composition.
0:06:48.360,0:06:57.360
Why? Because if you have g of f(x) and x approaches
to c from the left, f(x) approaches L but
0:06:57.850,0:06:59.280
not necessarily from the left.
0:06:59.280,0:07:03.560
You then you have another thing which is as
f(x) approaches L from the left, g of that
0:07:03.560,0:07:09.280
approaches something you just need to be careful
that when you compose things the sidedness
0:07:09.280,0:07:10.930
could change each time you compose.
0:07:10.930,0:07:14.590
Rui: Can you write a composition of the function
out?
0:07:14.590,0:07:17.870
Vipul: Not in this video. We will do that
in another video.
0:07:17.870,0:07:23.800
That’s something we will see in a subsequent
video but this is just something to keep in
0:07:23.800,0:07:27.770
mind so when you see that it will ring a bell.
0:07:30.770,0:07:31.880
Let us do... what other side is left? [pun unintended!]
Rui: Right?
Vipul: Right!
0:07:31.880,0:07:36.690
Vipul: By the way, you probably already know
this if you have seen limits intuitively so
0:07:36.690,0:07:42.300
I'm not stressing this too much but left hand
limit is really the limit as you approach
0:07:42.300,0:07:49.300
from the left. You are not moving toward the
left you are moving from the left to the point.
0:07:50.160,0:07:55.940
Right hand limit will be approach from the
right to the point so it is right, moving from
0:07:55.940,0:07:59.330
the right, so the words left and right are
describing where the limit is coming *from*,
0:07:59.330,0:08:06.330
not the direction which it is going to.
0:08:12.569,0:08:17.650
Now you can just tell me what will be the
corresponding thing. To make sense of this
0:08:17.650,0:08:19.819
notion we need f to be defined where? [ANSWER!]
0:08:19.819,0:08:21.699
Rui: On its right.
0:08:21.699,0:08:29.199
Vipul: On the immediate right of c. If it
is not defined on the immediate right it doesn’t
0:08:29.389,0:08:36.389
even make sense to ask this question what
the right hand limit is.
0:08:37.280,0:08:38.550
How will that be defined?
0:08:38.550,0:08:44.240
Rui: For every epsilon greater than zero
0:08:44.240,0:08:51.240
Vipul: The epsilon is the interval on which
you are trying to trap the function value.
0:08:51.500,0:08:54.279
Rui: There exists epsilon
0:08:54.279,0:08:55.890
Vipul: No, delta
0:08:55.890,0:09:14.890
Rui: delta> 0 such that for all x
with x – c > 0
0:09:15.040,0:09:22.040
Vipul: The general one is for all x with 0<|x-c|<delta
because you want to capture both the intervals.
0:09:23.170,0:09:29.270
In this one, the left hand limit one, we just
captured the left side interval.
0:09:29.270,0:09:39.270
Now in the right one we just want to capture
the right side interval, so as you said 0< x- c < delta.
0:09:44.180,0:09:51.480
In the picture, the function is defined, say c
to c + t and you are really saying you can
0:09:52.290,0:10:00.290
find delta if x is in here [between c and c + delta] which
actually... this is not including c, it is all the points
0:10:00.390,0:10:05.390
in the immediate right of c. We have? [ANSWER!]
0:10:06.000,0:10:13.000
Rui: The absolute value of f(x) – L is less
than epsilon.
0:10:20.010,0:10:22.010
Vipul: So f(x) is? Are we here? We have everything?
0:10:23.010,0:10:23.260
Rui: Yes.
0:10:26.190,0:10:30.890
Vipul: We have both of these here? So do you
see what’s the main difference between these
0:10:30.890,0:10:37.430
two and the actual [two-sided limit] definition?
0:10:37.430,0:10:42.930
For every epsilon there exists delta... the
first second and fourth line remain the same.
0:10:42.930,0:10:47.440
It is this line where you are specifying where
the x are that’s different.
0:10:47.440,0:10:53.000
In the two-sided thing the x could be either place.
0:10:53.300,0:10:55.200
For the left hand limit the x,
0:10:55.720,0:10:59.000
you just want x here [in (c - delta, c)] and
0:10:59.000,0:11:07.000
for the right hand limit you just want x in (c,c + delta).
0:11:07.000,0:11:09.000
Okay? [END!]
Checkpoint questions:
- In order to make sense of
, where must the function
be defined? Must
be defined at
? If
exists, what can we say about its value?
- The definitions of left hand limit, right hand limit and ordinary (two-sided) limit are pretty similar. There is only one clause that differs across the three definitions. What clause is this, and how does it differ across the definitions? Explain both in inequality notation and in interval notation.
- Why should we be careful when dealing with one-sided limits in the context of function compositions?
Relation between the limit notions
The two-sided limit exists if and only if (both the left hand limit and right hand limit exist) and (they are equal to each other).
Explicitly,
exists if all three of these conditions hold:
exists.
exists.
.
Moreover, in the event that both one-sided limits exist and are equal, the two-sided limit is equal to both of them.
Further, a particular value of
works for a particular value of
in the two-sided limit definition if and only if it works in both the left hand limit definition and the right hand limit definition.
Definition of finite limit for function of one variable in terms of a game
The formal definitions of limit, as well as of one-sided limit, can be reframed in terms of a game. This is a special instance of an approach that turns any statement with existential and universal quantifiers into a game.
Two-sided limit
Consider the limit statement, with specified numerical values of
and
and a specified function
:
Note that there is one trivial sense in which the above statement can be false, or rather, meaningless, namely, that
is not defined on the immediate left or immediate right of
. In that case, the limit statement above is false, but moreover, it is meaningless to even consider the notion of limit. We therefore omit this sense from consideration and consider instead only the situation where
is defined on the immediate left and immediate right of
.
The game is between two players, a Prover whose goal is to prove that the limit statement is true, and a Skeptic (also called a Verifier or sometimes a Disprover) whose goal is to show that the statement is false. The game has three moves:
- First, the skeptic chooses
, or equivalently, chooses the target interval
in which the skeptic is challenging the prover to trap the function.
- Then, the prover chooses
, or equivalently, chooses the interval
.
- Then, the skeptic chooses a value
satisfying
, or equivalently,
, which is the same as
.
Now, if
(i.e.,
), the prover wins. Otherwise, the skeptic wins.
We say that the limit statement
is true if the prover has a winning strategy for this game. The winning strategy for the prover basically constitutes a strategy to choose an appropriate
in terms of the
chosen by the skeptic. Thus, it is an expression of
as a function of
. Verbally, the goal of the prover is to choose a value of
so that when the input is restricted to being within
distance of
, the output is trapped to within
distance of the claimed limit
.
We say that the limit statement
is false if the skeptic has a winning strategy for this game. The winning strategy for the skeptic involves a choice of
, and a strategy that chooses a value of
(constrained in the specified interval) based on the prover's choice of
.
Let's review the definition in conjunction with the game along with a deeper semantic understanding of the steps:
Step no. |
Clause of definition |
Who moves? |
What is chosen? |
Constraints on the choice |
Comment
|
1 |
For every  |
Skeptic |
 |
Must be positive |
The "for every" corresponds to the idea that the move is made by the side that does not have a winning strategy, because we want to argue that the side that does have a winning strategy can win no matter what.
|
2 |
there exists such that |
Prover |
 |
Must be positive |
The "there exists" corresponds to the idea that the move is made by the side that has a winning strategy, because that side gets to choose a favorable value of the variable (in this case ).
|
3 |
for all satisfying , |
Skeptic |
 |
Must be within the interval  |
The "for all" corresponds to the idea that the move is made by the side that does not have a winning strategy, because we want to argue that the side that does have a winning strategy can win no matter what.
|
4 |
we have  |
Neither; it's time for the judge to decide |
-- |
If (the condition that we desire) the prover wins. Else, the skeptic wins. |
|
Slight subtlety regarding domain of definition: [SHOW MORE]
The domain of definition issue leads to a couple of minor subtleties:
- A priori, it is possible that the
chosen by the skeptic is outside the domain of
, so it does not make sense to evaluate
. In the definition given above, this would lead to the game being won by the skeptic. In particular, if
is not defined on the immediate left or right of
, the skeptic can always win by picking
outside the domain.
- It may make sense to restrict discussion to the cases where
is defined on the immediate left or right of
. Explicitly, we assume that
is defined on the immediate left and immediate right, i.e., there exists
such that
is defined on the interval
. In this case, it does not matter what rule we set regarding the case that the skeptic picks
outside the domain. To simplify matters, we could alter the rules in any one of the following ways, and the meaning of limit would remain the same as in the original definition:
- We could require (as part of the game rules) that the prover pick
such that
. This pre-empts the problem of picking
-values outside the domain.
- We could require (as part of the game rules) that the skeptic pick
in the domain, i.e., pick
with
and
.
- We could alter the rule so that if the skeptic picks
outside the domain, the prover wins (instead of the skeptic winning).
{{#widget:YouTube|id=Kh253PUghFk}}
Full timed transcript: [SHOW MORE]
0:00:15.589,0:00:21.160
Vipul: In this video, I'm going to go over
the usual definition of limit and think of
0:00:21.160,0:00:24.930
it in terms of a game.
0:00:24.930,0:00:26.390
The game is as follows.
0:00:26.390,0:00:27.340
Consider this statement.
0:00:27.340,0:00:31.509
You are saying limit as x approaches c of
f(x) is L.
0:00:31.509,0:00:32.029
Okay.
0:00:32.029,0:00:35.160
There are two players to this game.
0:00:35.160,0:00:38.600
One is the prover and one is the skeptic.
0:00:38.600,0:00:44.550
The prover's goal is to show that this claim
is true so the prover is trying to convince
0:00:44.550,0:00:48.730
the skeptic that this limit as x approaches
c of f(x) is L,
0:00:48.730,0:01:01.160
the skeptic will try to ask tough questions and
see if the prover can still manage to show this.
0:01:01.160,0:01:04.059
The way the game is structured is as follows.
0:01:04.059,0:01:08.899
Let me just go over the individual components
of the statement for the limit and I will
0:01:08.899,0:01:10.610
translate each one.
0:01:10.610,0:01:17.610
I will explain the game and then explain how
it corresponds to the definition you've seen.
0:01:20.219,0:01:27.219
We begin with the skeptic
chooses epsilon > 0.
0:01:35.840,0:01:42.840
This is the part of the definition which reads
for every epsilon > 0.
0:01:47.099,0:01:53.289
That's the first clause of the definition
and that's basically the skeptic is choosing
0:01:53.289,0:01:54.579
epsilon > 0.
0:01:54.579,0:01:59.299
What is the skeptic trying to do when choosing
epsilon > 0?
0:01:59.299,0:02:06.299
What the skeptic is effectively doing is choosing
this interval L -- epsilon to L + epsilon.
0:02:14.400,0:02:18.220
The skeptic is effectively trying to choose
this interval L -- epsilon to L + epsilon.
0:02:18.220,0:02:26.110
What is the skeptic trying the challenge the prover
into doing when picking this interval? [ANSWER!]
0:02:26.110,0:02:29.890
Rui: Whether the prover can trap.
0:02:29.890,0:02:35.180
Vipul: The skeptic is trying to challenge
(and this will become a clearer a little later).
0:02:35.180,0:02:41.790
The idea is, the skeptic is trying to challenge
the prover into trapping the function when
0:02:41.790,0:02:47.620
the input x is close to c, trapping the
function output within this interval and that's
0:02:47.620,0:02:52.459
not clear which is why we need to continue
its definition.
0:02:52.459,0:02:58.609
The prover chooses. What does the prover choose?
[ANSWER!]
0:02:58.609,0:03:00.260
Rui: delta.
0:03:00.260,0:03:07.260
Vipul: delta > 0 and this corresponds to the
next part of the definition which says
0:03:08.480,0:03:15.480
there exists delta > 0.
0:03:19.749,0:03:26.749
In this picture, which I have up here, this
is the value c.
0:03:28.840,0:03:31.989
This is c + delta and this is c -- delta.
0:03:31.989,0:03:41.349
This is c and L, so c is the x coordinate, L is
the function value or limited the function value.
0:03:41.349,0:03:48.349
The skeptic chooses this strip like this from
L -- epsilon to L + epsilon by choosing epsilon
0:03:51.450,0:03:56.109
so the skeptic just chooses the number absent
what it is effectively doing is to choose
0:03:56.109,0:04:01.790
this strip, L -- epsilon to L + epsilon.
The prover then chooses a delta.
0:04:01.790,0:04:03.829
What's the prover effectively choosing?
0:04:03.829,0:04:07.290
The prover is effectively choosing this interval.
0:04:07.290,0:04:14.230
Okay so that's this interval.
0:04:14.230,0:04:20.209
It is c -- delta to c + delta except you
don't really care about the point c itself,
0:04:20.209,0:04:26.490
(but that's a little subtlety we don't
have to bother about), so the skeptic is choosing
0:04:26.490,0:04:29.780
the interval like this.
The prover is choosing the interval like this.
0:04:29.780,0:04:33.340
How is the skeptic choosing the interval? By just
specifying the value of epsilon.
0:04:33.340,0:04:34.880
How is the prover choosing [the interval around c]?
0:04:34.880,0:04:45.880
By just specifying a value of delta. Okay.
Now what does the skeptic now do? [ANSWER!]
0:04:46.500,0:04:52.979
Rui: Skeptic will check.
0:04:53.079,0:05:00.079
Vipul: There is something more to choose (right?)
before checking.
0:05:02.710,0:05:06.599
What does the definition say? For every epsilon
> 0 there exists a delta greater than zero
0:05:06.599,0:05:07.259
such that ... [COMPLETE!]
0:05:07.259,0:05:08.580
Rui: For every.
0:05:08.580,0:05:13.220
Vipul: For every x such that something. The
skeptic can now pick x.
0:05:13.220,0:05:17.000
Rui: That's what I meant by checking.
0:05:17.000,0:05:21.940
Vipul: The skeptic could still, like, pick a
value to challenge the prover.
0:05:21.940,0:05:28.940
The skeptic chooses x but what x can the skeptic
choose?
0:05:29.169,0:05:31.810
Rui: Within the...
0:05:31.810,0:05:36.590
Vipul: This interval which the prover has
specified.
0:05:36.590,0:05:43.590
The skeptic is constrained to choose x within
the interval.
0:05:44.250,0:05:49.639
That's the same as c -- delta ... Is this
all coming?
0:05:49.639,0:05:50.330
Rui: Yes.
0:05:50.330,0:05:57.330
Vipul: c -- delta, c union c to c + delta.
0:05:59.110,0:06:15.110
The way it's written is for every x in this
interval.
0:06:16.849,0:06:21.349
Lot of people write this in a slightly different
way.
0:06:21.349,0:06:28.349
They write it as ...
0:06:28.400,0:06:31.720
(You should see the definition video before
this.)
0:06:31.720,0:06:37.729
(I'm sort of assuming that you have seen the
definition -- this part [of the screen] so you can map it)
0:06:37.729,0:06:40.000
so a lot of people write it like this.
0:06:40.000,0:06:45.190
It is just saying x is within delta distance
of c but it's not equal to c itself.
0:06:45.190,0:06:50.949
Now it's time for the judge to come in and
decide who has won.
0:06:50.949,0:06:55.930
How does the judge decide? [ANSWER!]
0:06:55.930,0:07:01.360
Rui: For the x that the skeptic chooses and
see the corresponding y.
0:07:01.360,0:07:03.289
Vipul: The f(x) value.
0:07:03.289,0:07:10.289
Rui: If the f(x) value is within the horizontal strip then the prover wins.
0:07:12.509,0:07:30.000
Vipul: If |f(x) -- L| < epsilon which is the same
as saying f(x) is in what interval? [ANSWER!]
0:07:30.000,0:07:41.620
L- epsilon to L + epsilon then the prover
wins. Otherwise? [ANSWER!]
0:07:42.120,0:07:46.120
Rui: The skeptic wins.
0:07:46.120,0:07:53.120
[But] the skeptic can choose a really dumb [stupid] x.
0:07:54.039,0:07:57.610
Vipul: That's actually the next question
I want to ask you.
0:07:57.610,0:08:01.240
What does it actually mean to say that this
statement is true?
0:08:01.240,0:08:04.770
Is it just enough that the prover wins? That's
not enough.
0:08:04.770,0:08:07.909
What do you want to say to say that this statement
is true?
0:08:07.909,0:08:11.210
Rui: For every x in the interval.
0:08:11.210,0:08:16.289
Vipul: For every x but not only for every
x you should also say for every epsilon.
0:08:16.289,0:08:22.139
All the moves that the skeptic makes, the prover
should have a strategy, which works for all of them.
0:08:22.139,0:08:25.710
So, this statement is true [if] ...
0:08:25.710,0:08:29.800
This is true if the prover has what for the
game? [ANSWER!]
0:08:30.539,0:08:35.050
Rui: Winning strategy.
Vipul: Winning what?
Rui: Strategy.
0:08:35.050,0:08:38.669
Vipul: Yeah. True if the prover has a winning strategy.
0:08:38.669,0:08:44.910
It is not just enough to say that the prover
won the game some day but the prover should
0:08:44.910,0:08:50.220
be able to win the game regardless of how
smart the skeptic is or regardless of how
0:08:50.220,0:08:53.960
experienced the skeptic is or regardless of
how the skeptic plays.
0:08:53.960,0:09:00.960
That's why all the moves of the skeptic
are prefaced with a "for every." Right?
0:09:02.230,0:09:07.560
Whereas all the moves of the prover are prefaced,
(well there is only one move really of the
0:09:07.560,0:09:11.180
prover) are prefaced with "there exists"
because the prover controls his own choices.
0:09:11.180,0:09:15.360
When it is the prover's turn it's enough
to say "there exists" but since the prover doesn't
0:09:15.360,0:09:21.590
control what the skeptic does all the skeptic
moves are prefaced with "for every."
0:09:21.590,0:09:26.150
By the way, there is a mathematical notation
for these things.
0:09:26.150,0:09:31.730
There are mathematical symbols for these,
which I'm not introducing in this video,
0:09:31.730,0:09:37.920
but if you have seen them and got confused
then you can look at the future video where
0:09:37.920,0:09:40.500
I explain the mathematical symbols.
Negation of limit statement and non-existence of limit
We now consider the explicit description of the definition for the case that the skeptic has a winning strategy for the limit game for
, i.e., for the limit statement being false.
In words, the definition is:
There exists
such that for every
, there exists
satisfying
and
.
Let's review the definition in conjunction with the game along with a deeper semantic understanding of the steps:
Step no. |
Clause of definition for original limit statement (i.e., prover has a winning strategy) |
Clause of definition for skeptic having a winning strategy |
Who moves? |
What is chosen? |
Constraints on the choice |
Comment
|
1 |
For every  |
There exists such that |
Skeptic |
 |
Must be positive |
Whether we use "for every" or "there exists" depends on who we're rooting for.
|
2 |
there exists such that |
for every , |
Prover |
 |
Must be positive |
Whether we use "for every" or "there exists" depends on who we're rooting for.
|
3 |
for all satisfying , |
there exists satisfying and |
Skeptic |
 |
Must be within the interval  |
Whether we use "for every" or "there exists" depends on who we're rooting for.
|
4 |
we have  |
. |
Neither; it's time for the judge to decide |
-- |
If , the prover wins. Else, the skeptic wins. |
The conditions are negatives of one another.
|
{{#widget:YouTube|id=N0U8Y11nlPk}}
Full timed transcript: [SHOW MORE]
0:01:26.720,0:01:33.720
Ok, so in this talk, we are going to give the definition
of what it means to say that this statement,
0:01:34.250,0:01:37.940
the one up here, is false.
0:01:37.940,0:01:41.300
So far we've looked at what it means for this
statement to be true.
0:01:41.300,0:01:44.960
Now we are going to look at what it means
for the statement to be false.
0:01:44.960,0:01:48.340
Basically, you just use the same definition,
but you would change a little bit of what
0:01:48.340,0:01:49.490
it looks like.
0:01:49.490,0:01:54.130
Let me first remind you of the limit game
because that is a very nice way of thinking
0:01:54.130,0:01:57.380
about what it means to be true and false.
0:01:57.380,0:01:58.860
What does the limit game say?
0:01:58.860,0:02:01.680
It is a game between two players, a prover
and a skeptic.
0:02:01.680,0:02:04.680
What is the goal of the prover? [ANSWER!]
0:02:04.680,0:02:06.310
Rui: To show he is right.
0:02:06.310,0:02:07.930
Vipul: To show that this is true.
0:02:07.930,0:02:08.489
Rui: True.
0:02:08.489,0:02:12.830
Vipul: The skeptic is trying to show that
this is false, or at least trying to come
0:02:12.830,0:02:16.730
up with the strongest evidence to suggest
that this is false.
0:02:16.730,0:02:18.090
How does the game proceed?
0:02:18.090,0:02:23.349
The skeptic begins by choosing an epsilon
greater than zero.
0:02:23.349,0:02:25.200
What is the skeptic effectively trying to
pick?
0:02:25.200,0:02:30.769
The skeptic is effectively trying to pick
this neighborhood of L and trying to challenge
0:02:30.769,0:02:36.579
the prover to trap the function value for
x within that neighborhood.
0:02:36.579,0:02:40.719
What's that neighborhood the skeptic is
secretly picking? [ANSWER!]
0:02:40.719,0:02:43.909
Rui: L -- epsilon [to L + epsilon]
0:02:43.909,0:02:50.909
Vipul: Ok, the prover chooses a delta greater
than zero so the prover is now basically trying
0:02:53.040,0:03:00.040
to pick a neighborhood of c, the point near the
domain points, and
0:03:02.650,0:03:09.650
then the skeptic will then pick a value x, which is within the interval delta distance
of c except the point c itself.
0:03:10.120,0:03:16.200
That's either delta interval on the left
or delta interval on the right of c.
0:03:16.200,0:03:20.569
Then the judge comes along and computes this
value, absolute value f(x) minus...Are we,
0:03:20.569,0:03:21.739
is this in the picture?
0:03:21.739,0:03:22.700
Rui: Yes.
0:03:22.700,0:03:27.329
Vipul: If it is less than epsilon then the
prover would have won, but now we want to
0:03:27.329,0:03:34.329
see if the skeptic wins if it is greater or
equal to epsilon, that means f(x) is not in
0:03:35.569,0:03:36.129
the epsilon...
0:03:36.129,0:03:37.249
Rui: Neighborhood.
0:03:37.249,0:03:42.459
Vipul: This video assumes you have already
seen the previous videos where we give these
0:03:42.459,0:03:48.689
definitions and so I'm sort of reviewing it
quickly, but not explaining it in full detail.
0:03:48.689,0:03:54.069
So, the skeptic wins if f(x) is outside this
interval, that means the prover failed to
0:03:54.069,0:03:58.069
rise to the skeptic's challenge of trapping
the function.
0:03:58.069,0:04:05.069
Let's now try to work out concretely what
the definition would read.
0:04:06.590,0:04:10.439
The skeptic is the one in control because
you want to figure out whether the skeptic
0:04:10.439,0:04:12.639
has a winning strategy.
0:04:12.639,0:04:17.690
Ok, so let me just say this clearly, this
is just saying when does the skeptic win?
0:04:17.690,0:04:21.090
Now in order to say this limit statement is
false, we need something stronger. What do
0:04:21.090,0:04:25.360
we need to say this is false? [ANSWER!]
0:04:25.360,0:04:26.450
The skeptic should have...
0:04:26.450,0:04:28.820
Rui: Should have a winning strategy.
0:04:28.820,0:04:30.410
Vipul: A winning strategy.
0:04:30.410,0:04:34.229
The skeptic should have a strategy so that
whatever the prover does, the skeptic has
0:04:34.229,0:04:36.139
some way of winning.
0:04:36.139,0:04:41.229
What should this read...if you actually translate
it to the definition?
0:04:41.229,0:04:44.169
Rui: There exists an...
0:04:44.169,0:04:46.000
Vipul: There exists epsilon
0:04:46.000,0:04:51.000
Rui: ...an epsilon greater than zero.
0:04:58.000,0:05:00.000
Vipul: Okay. Such that...
0:05:00.280,0:05:07.210
Rui: For every delta greater than zero.
0:05:07.210,0:05:10.870
Vipul: So the skeptic, when it's the skeptic's
move the skeptic says "there exists."
0:05:10.870,0:05:14.310
If anything works, the skeptic can pick that,
but when it's the provers move, the skeptic
0:05:14.310,0:05:15.699
has no control.
0:05:15.699,0:05:30.699
This should read, for every delta greater
than zero...What will the next part read?
0:05:31.770,0:05:33.930
Rui: There exists an x.
0:05:33.930,0:05:40.930
Vipul: Exists x in this interval.
0:05:44.289,0:05:45.340
Rui: Yeah.
0:05:45.340,0:05:50.159
Vipul: Which you often see it written in a
slightly different form.
0:05:50.159,0:05:57.159
Maybe, I don't have space here, so here
it is also written as "0 ...", are we down here?
0:05:59.960,0:06:01.560
Rui: Yes.
0:06:01.560,0:06:04.470
Vipul: This is the form it's usually written in
concise definitions.
0:06:04.470,0:06:20.710
We have this...So the definition, maybe it's not
clear, but the definition would read like that.
0:06:20.710,0:06:25.419
So there exists Epsilon greater than zero such
that for every delta greater than zero there
0:06:25.419,0:06:30.879
exists x, in here, which you could also write
like this, such that, I guess I should put
0:06:30.879,0:06:35.310
the "such that." [writes it down]
0:06:35.310,0:06:39.849
Such that. absolute value of f(x) -- L is greater
than or equal to epsilon
0:06:39.849,0:06:44.680
Let me just compare it with the usual definition
for the limit to exist.
0:06:44.680,0:06:47.750
The colors are in a reverse chrome.
0:06:47.750,0:06:52.860
That's fine. For every epsilon greater than
zero became there exists epsilon greater than
0:06:52.860,0:06:55.879
zero because the player who is in control
has changed.
0:06:55.879,0:06:59.789
There exists delta greater than zero became
for every delta greater than zero, for all
0:06:59.789,0:07:05.139
x with this became their exists x satisfying
this condition.
0:07:05.139,0:07:07.629
What happened to the last clause?
0:07:07.629,0:07:12.099
The less than Epsilon begin greater than or
equal to.
0:07:12.099,0:07:17.069
The last clause just got reversed in meaning,
all the others, we just changed the quantifier
0:07:17.069,0:07:22.389
from "for all" to "there exists" and from "there
exists" to "for all" and that is just because
0:07:22.389,0:07:25.770
we changed who is winning.
0:07:25.770,0:07:30.439
If you have seen some logic, if you ever see
logic, then there are some general rules of
0:07:30.439,0:07:33.650
logic as to how to convert a statement to
its opposite statement.
0:07:33.650,0:07:38.610
This is a general rule that "for all" becomes
"there exists" and "there exists" becomes "for all."
Non-existence of limit
The statement
does not exist could mean one of two things:
is not defined around
, i.e., there is no
for which
is defined on
. In this case, it does not even make sense to try taking a limit.
is defined around
, except possibly at
, i.e., there is
for which
is defined on
. So, it does make sense to try taking a limit. However, the limit still does not exist.
The formulation of the latter case is as follows:
For every
, there exists
such that for every
, there exists
satisfying
and such that
.
We can think of this in terms of a slight modification of the limit game, where, in our modification, there is an extra initial move by the prover to propose a value
for the limit. The limit does not exist if the skeptic has a winning strategy for this modified game.
An example of a function that does not have a limit at a specific point is the sine of reciprocal function. Explicitly, the limit:
does not exist. The skeptic's winning strategy is as follows: regardless of the
chosen by the prover, pick a fixed
(independent of
, so
can be decided in advance of the game -- note that the skeptic could even pick
and the strategy would still work). After the prover has chosen a value
, find a value
such that the
function value lies outside
. This is possible because the interval
has width
, hence cannot cover the entire interval
, which has width 2. However, the range of the
function on
is all of
.
Crucially, the inability of the prover to trap the function value close to any point as
is the reason the limit fails to exist.
{{#widget:YouTube|id=JoVuC4pksWs}}
Full timed transcript: [SHOW MORE]
0:00:31.170,0:00:38.170
Vipul: Ok, so this talk is going to be about
why under certain circumstances limits don't exist
0:00:39.800,0:00:46.800
We are going to take this example of a function
which is defined like this: sin of one over x
0:00:47.699,0:00:51.360
Obviously, that definition doesn't work
when x equals zero.
0:00:51.360,0:00:57.260
So this is a function defined only for all non-zero
reals.
0:00:57.260,0:01:01.050
The goal is to figure out what the limit as
x approaches 0 of f(x) is.
0:01:01.050,0:01:06.630
Here is a graph of the function. This is a
y axis, and x axis.
0:01:06.630,0:01:08.490
The function looks like this.
0:01:08.490,0:01:10.680
It is oscillatory.
0:01:10.680,0:01:16.270
As you approach zero it oscillates more, faster
and faster.
0:01:16.270,0:01:19.070
What are the upper and lower limits of oscillation?
0:01:19.070,0:01:25.580
Actually all these things should be the same
height.
0:01:25.580,0:01:29.760
My drawing wasn't good, but, it should all
be the same height, above and below.
0:01:29.760,0:01:31.290
What are these upper and lower limits? [ANSWER!]
0:01:31.290,0:01:32.790
Rui: 1 and -1.
0:01:32.790,0:01:39.790
Vipul: So the lower limit is negative one
and the upper limit is one. Ok, good.
0:01:39.829,0:01:46.829
So what does it mean, what is the limit at
zero for this function? [ANSWER!]
0:01:46.850,0:01:53.850
This is where...you need to really think, so
I might say ok the limit is, looks like it's zero.
0:01:58.259,0:01:58.509
0:01:58.469,0:02:04.749
At zero, you say that looks neat, that looks
right because you see when the x value approaches,
0:02:04.749,0:02:09.190
comes close to zero, the f(x) value also comes
close to zero.
0:02:09.190,0:02:12.700
It keeps oscillating between -1and 1,
and it keeps coming.
0:02:12.700,0:02:19.700
I draw a very small ball around zero, like
that.
0:02:19.780,0:02:22.700
The function is going to keep entering this
ball.
0:02:22.700,0:02:27.060
A ball or a square one or whatever.
0:02:27.060,0:02:34.060
A very small neighborhood of this origin point
here in this two-dimensional picture.
0:02:35.230,0:02:40.459
The function graph is going to enter that
repeatedly.
0:02:40.459,0:02:42.010
Do you think the limit is zero? [ANSWER!]
0:02:42.010,0:02:42.830
Rui: No.
0:02:42.830,0:02:46.860
Vipul: No? Why not? Isn't it coming really
close to zero?
0:02:46.860,0:02:47.430
Rui: Sometimes.
0:02:47.430,0:02:49.140
Vipul: What do you mean "sometimes?"
0:02:49.140,0:02:56.140
Rui: It means sometimes it is real close to
zero and then it flies away.
0:02:56.870,0:03:03.870
Vipul: Ok, "flies away." [Hmm] So what's
your objection? What is not happening?
0:03:04.019,0:03:06.010
Rui: We can not trap.
0:03:06.010,0:03:07.239
Vipul: We cannot trap...
0:03:07.239,0:03:11.909
Rui: ...trap it in a neighborhood of zero.
0:03:11.909,0:03:18.480
Vipul: Function not trapped.
0:03:18.480,0:03:20.110
What should the limit be if it is not zero?
0:03:20.110,0:03:24.849
Should it be half, two-thirds, what should
the limit be? [ANSWER!]
0:03:24.849,0:03:31.849
(I'll explain this later), what do you think
the limit should be?
0:03:34.659,0:03:36.730
Rui: It doesn't have a limit.
0:03:36.730,0:03:38.299
Vipul: It doesn't have a limit.
0:03:38.299,0:03:39.790
Ok, so what does that mean?
0:03:39.790,0:03:45.290
Whatever limit you claim the function has
you are wrong...If you claim the function had
0:03:45.290,0:03:49.170
any numerical limit, if you claim if it is half you
are wrong.
0:03:49.170,0:03:50.640
If you claim minus half you are wrong.
0:03:50.640,0:03:52.720
If you claim the limit is 50, you are wrong.
0:03:52.720,0:03:54.959
Whatever claim you make about the limit,
you are wrong.
0:03:54.959,0:04:00.780
So let's try to think of this in terms of the
game between a prover and a skeptic.
0:04:00.780,0:04:02.730
(You should go and review that video
0:04:02.730,0:04:09.730
or read the corresponding material to understand
what I am going to say.)
0:04:09.829,0:04:13.969
It's good if you have also seen the video
on the definition of limit statement being
0:04:13.969,0:04:17.709
false, which builds on that.
0:04:17.709,0:04:21.620
What I am now asking you, what does it mean
to say the limit does not exist?
0:04:21.620,0:04:23.980
As x approaches c [limit] of f(x) does not exist.
0:04:23.980,0:04:27.810
Here c is zero, but that is not relevant...
that is not necessary for the definition.
0:04:27.810,0:04:32.910
Well it is the usual way we say that the
limit statement is false except we need to
0:04:32.910,0:04:37.170
add one step in the beginning, which is for
every L in R [the reals].
0:04:37.170,0:04:42.460
It says that for every L in R [the reals] the statement
limit x approaches c, f(x) equals L, is false.
0:04:42.460,0:04:43.900
So how does it read?
0:04:43.900,0:04:48.220
It says, for every L in R [the reals] there exists epsilon
greater than zero such that for every delta
0:04:48.220,0:04:55.030
greater than zero there exists x, within the
delta neighborhood of c such that f(x) is
0:04:55.030,0:04:58.590
not in the epsilon neighborhood of L.
0:04:58.590,0:05:05.590
How would you interpret this in terms of a
game between a prover and a skeptic?[ANSWER, THINKING ALONG!]
0:05:06.470,0:05:11.570
Rui: For every limit the prover proposes...
0:05:11.570,0:05:16.420
Vipul: This is not quite the same as the limit
game which you may have seen in a previous
0:05:16.420,0:05:21.170
video which was assuming that the limit was
already given as a part of the game.
0:05:21.170,0:05:28.170
This is sort of a somewhat more general game or
a more meta game where part of the game
0:05:28.420,0:05:31.950
is also the prover trying to specify what
the limit should be.
0:05:31.950,0:05:37.100
The first step the prover plays, the prover
is in black, skeptic is in red.
0:05:37.100,0:05:43.290
The first step the prover plays, proposes
a value of the limit. Then?
0:05:43.290,0:05:47.280
Rui: The skeptic chooses an epsilon.
0:05:47.280,0:05:50.020
Vipul: What's the goal of the skeptic in choosing
the epsilon?
0:05:50.020,0:05:56.740
The goal of the skeptic is.. so let's say
the prover chose a limit value L here, that's
0:05:56.740,0:05:58.470
numerical value L here.
0:05:58.470,0:06:00.050
The skeptic picks epsilon.
0:06:00.050,0:06:06.650
The skeptic will pick epsilon, which means
the skeptic is picking this band from L minus
0:06:06.650,0:06:12.400
epsilon to L plus epsilon.
0:06:12.400,0:06:14.270
Now what does the prover try to do?
0:06:14.270,0:06:19.000
The prover tries to pick a delta. What is
the prover trying to do?
0:06:19.000,0:06:24.490
Find a neighborhood of c, such that the
function in that neighborhood of c the function
0:06:24.490,0:06:28.370
is trapped within epsilon of L.
0:06:28.370,0:06:32.740
So in our case, c is zero in this example,
so the prover will be trying to pick a neighborhood
0:06:32.740,0:06:39.740
of zero, is something like... zero plus delta
on the right and zero minus delta on the left.
0:06:44.620,0:06:45.750
What's the goal of the prover?
0:06:45.750,0:06:50.840
To say that whenever x is in this interval,
for all x,
0:06:50.840,0:06:53.500
The prover is trying to say that all for x
in here, the function [difference from L] is less than epsilon.
0:06:53.500,0:06:56.170
The skeptic who is trying to disprove that.
0:06:56.170,0:06:59.060
What does the skeptic need to do?
0:06:59.060,0:07:03.900
Rui: Every time the prover finds an x.
0:07:03.900,0:07:07.540
Vipul: Well the prover finds, picks the delta,
what does the skeptic try to do?
0:07:07.540,0:07:08.480
Rui: Just pick an x.
0:07:08.480,0:07:10.550
Vipul: Picks an x such that the function...
0:07:10.550,0:07:12.140
Rui: Is out of the...
0:07:12.140,0:07:13.960
Vipul: Is outside that thing.
0:07:13.960,0:07:24.960
Let me make this part a little bit more...so
here you have... the same colors.
0:07:25.150,0:07:41.150
This is
the axis...The skeptic...The prover has picked
this point and the skeptic has picked epsilon.
0:07:41.780,0:07:46.670
So this is L plus epsilon, L minus epsilon.
0:07:46.670,0:07:50.460
The prover is now, it so happens that c is
zero here.
0:07:50.460,0:07:56.690
So that everything is happening near the y
axis.
0:07:56.690,0:08:03.690
Now, the prover wants to pick a delta, the
prover wants to pick, like this, should be
0:08:07.320,0:08:07.910
the same.
0:08:07.910,0:08:14.910
So this is c plus delta which c is zero, so
zero plus delta and zero minus delta.
0:08:17.810,0:08:21.960
Now, under what conditions...What happens
next?
0:08:21.960,0:08:28.240
The prover is implicitly trying to claim that
the function, when the x value is close here,
0:08:28.240,0:08:30.520
the function value is trapped here.
0:08:30.520,0:08:35.089
What the skeptic wants to show is that, that's
not true.
0:08:35.089,0:08:39.830
If it isn't true, in order to do that, the
skeptic should pick a value of x.
0:08:39.830,0:08:46.830
So the skeptic needs to pick a value of x
somewhere in this interval such that at that
0:08:48.110,0:08:55.110
value of f(x)...let me just make the x axis...so
the skeptic wants to pick a value of x, maybe
0:08:59.209,0:09:06.209
its somewhere here, such that when you evaluate
the function at x it lies outside.
0:09:07.269,0:09:11.720
If when you evaluate the function at x, and it lies
outside this strip then the skeptic wins and
0:09:11.720,0:09:16.290
if the value of the function of x is inside
the strip then the prover wins.
0:09:16.290,0:09:23.290
Now looking back at this function, the question
is, can the prover pick an L such that regardless,
0:09:25.209,0:09:31.779
so can the prover pick a value of L such that...Is
this whole thing coming?
0:09:31.779,0:09:37.860
Such that regardless of the epsilon that the
skeptic picks, there exists a delta such that
0:09:37.860,0:09:44.439
for all x the function is trapped? Or is it
instead true that the skeptic will win? (i.e.) Is
0:09:44.439,0:09:50.579
it true that whatever L the prover picks there
exists an epsilon, since the skeptic picks
0:09:50.579,0:09:57.360
an epsilon, such that whatever delta the prover
picks the function in not in fact, trapped
0:09:57.360,0:10:00.399
here. What do you think looking at the picture
here?
0:10:00.399,0:10:05.329
Can you trap the function in a rectangle
like this? [ANSWER!]
0:10:05.329,0:10:06.100
Rui: No.
0:10:06.100,0:10:09.930
Vipul: Well, not if it is a very small rectangle.
0:10:09.930,0:10:16.930
What should the skeptic's strategy be?
0:10:17.060,0:10:23.930
The claim is that the limit does not exist,
that is the claim.
0:10:23.930,0:10:25.990
The claim is that this limit doesn't exist.
0:10:25.990,0:10:29.750
What is the skeptic's strategy?
0:10:29.750,0:10:31.990
What do you mean by skeptic strategy?
0:10:31.990,0:10:37.370
Well, the skeptic should have some strategy
that works, so the skeptic should pick an
0:10:37.370,0:10:43.290
epsilon that is smart and then the skeptic
should pick an x that works.
0:10:43.290,0:10:50.209
What epsilon should the skeptic pick? Suppose
the skeptic picks epsilon as 50 million,
0:10:50.209,0:10:52.050
is that a winning strategy?
0:10:52.050,0:10:52.790
Rui: No.
0:10:52.790,0:10:53.899
Vipul: Why not?
0:10:53.899,0:10:58.300
Rui: He should pick something between -1 and
1, right?
0:10:58.300,0:11:01.920
Vipul: Well epsilon is a positive number so
what do you mean?
0:11:01.920,0:11:04.600
Rui: Oh, anything between one, smaller.
0:11:04.600,0:11:05.230
Vipul: Smaller than...
0:11:05.230,0:11:08.999
Rui: Less than one. Epsilon.
0:11:08.999,0:11:12.470
Vipul: Less than one. Why will that work?
0:11:12.470,0:11:19.470
Rui: Because even if it is less than one then
anything, no matter what kind of delta...
0:11:20.930,0:11:27.930
Vipul: Whatever L the prover picked...What
is the width of this interval? The distance
0:11:28.209,0:11:29.589
from the top and the bottom is?
0:11:29.589,0:11:30.279
Rui: 2
0:11:30.279,0:11:30.980
Vipul: [2 times] epsilon.
0:11:30.980,0:11:31.680
Rui: [2 times] epsilon.
0:11:31.680,0:11:38.680
Vipul: 2 epsilon. If epsilon
is less than one, the skeptic's strategy is
pick epsilon less than one any epsilon.
0:11:43.089,0:11:50.089
The skeptic can fix epsilon in the beginning, maybe pick
epsilon as 0.1 or something, but any epsilon
0:11:50.610,0:11:52.019
less than one will do.
0:11:52.019,0:11:59.019
In fact epsilon equal to one will do. Let
us play safe and pick epsilon as 0.1.
0:11:59.810,0:12:00.999
Why does it work?
0:12:00.999,0:12:06.600
Because this 2 epsilon cannot include both
one and minus one.
0:12:06.600,0:12:12.649
It cannot cover this entire thing because
this has width two, from one to minus one.
0:12:12.649,0:12:17.589
If the skeptic picks an epsilon less than
one, regardless of the L the prover has tried,
0:12:17.589,0:12:23.079
the strip is not wide enough to include everything
from minus one to one.
0:12:23.079,0:12:27.990
Regardless of what Delta the prover picks,
we know that however small an interval we
0:12:27.990,0:12:32.180
pick around zero, the function is going to
take all values from negative one to one in
0:12:32.180,0:12:35.759
that small interval.
0:12:35.759,0:12:40.819
Now the skeptic will be able to find an x
such that the function value lies outside
0:12:40.819,0:12:42.290
the interval.
0:12:42.290,0:12:45.579
The skeptic should...the key idea is that
the skeptic pick epsilon small enough, in
0:12:45.579,0:12:50.360
this case the skeptic's choice of epsilon
doesn't depend on what L the prover chose.
0:12:50.360,0:12:51.269
It need not.
0:12:51.269,0:12:52.889
The strategy doesn't.
0:12:52.889,0:12:59.889
Then after the prover has picked a delta,
picked an x such that the function lies outside.
0:13:01.249,0:13:07.410
Regardless of the L the prover picks,
that L doesn't work as a limit because
0:13:07.410,0:13:10.550
the skeptic wins and so the limit doesn't
exist.
Strategic aspects
The strategy of small
In the game formulation of the limit, the following loose statements are true:
- "Smaller is smarter" for the skeptic, i.e., the smaller the choice of
, the better the outlook is for the skeptic to win.
- "Smaller is smarter" for the prover, i.e., the smaller the choice of
, the better the outlook is for the prover to win.
In other words, each side benefits by making the crucial move of that side as small as possible. However, there does not exist any single arbitrarily small number -- this is related to the observation in the motivation section that there is no such thing as a single arbitrarily close number. Thus, saying "choose as small a value as possible" is not a coherent strategy. What we can say is the following:
- If a value of
works for a given value of
, the same value of
also works for larger choices of
.
- If a value of
works for a given value of
, smaller values of
also work for the same choice of
.
Prover's strategy revisited
The prover, in choosing a winning strategy, must specify a rule that can determine a value of
that works in terms of the value of
specified by the skeptic. In other words, the prover must have a way of specifying
as a function of
.
The skeptic also chooses
in the next move. However, the prover has no way of knowing the value of
that the skeptic plans to pick. Thus, in order for the prover to have a winning strategy, the prover's choice of
should be such that no matter what
the skeptic picks, the prover wins.
Skeptic's strategy revisited
The skeptic, in choosing a winning strategy, must specify the value of
and then specify how to pick a value of
that works. When picking the value of
, the skeptic does not know what
the prover will pick. Thus, the skeptic's choice of
cannot be dependent on the prover's subsequent choice of
.
However, when picking the value of
, the skeptic is aware of (and constrained by) the prover's choice of
.
Misconceptions
Most misconceptions associated with the formal
definition of limit have to do with the ordering of the moves in the game, who's in charge of what move, and what information each person has at the time of making the move. We describe some common misconceptions below.
{{#widget:YouTube|id=F0r_offAc5M}}
Full timed transcript: [SHOW MORE]
0:00:15.500,0:00:19.140
Vipul: Okay. This talk is going to be about
certain misconceptions
0:00:19.140,0:00:22.440
that people have regarding limits and these
are misconceptions that
0:00:22.440,0:00:25.840
people generally acquire after...
0:00:25.840,0:00:29.180
These are not the misconceptions that
people have before studying limits,
0:00:29.180,0:00:32.730
these are misconceptions you might have after
studying limits,
0:00:32.730,0:00:35.059
after studying the epsilon delta definition.
0:00:35.059,0:00:38.550
I'm going to describe these misconceptions
in terms of the limit game,
0:00:38.550,0:00:41.900
the prover skeptic game of the limit. Though
the misconceptions
0:00:41.900,0:00:45.850
themselves don't depend on
the understanding of the
0:00:45.850,0:00:49.059
game but to understand exactly what's
happening, it's better to think
0:00:49.059,0:00:51.010
of it in terms of the game.
0:00:51.010,0:00:55.370
First recall the definition. So limit as x
approaches c of f(x) is a
0:00:55.370,0:01:01.629
number L; so c and L are both numbers, real
numbers. f is a function,
0:01:01.629,0:01:06.380
x is approaching c. And we said this is true
if the following -- for
0:01:06.380,0:01:10.180
every epsilon greater than zero, there exists
a delta greater than
0:01:10.180,0:01:14.800
zero such that for all x which are within delta
distance of c, f(x) is
0:01:14.800,0:01:17.590
within epsilon distance of L. Okay?
0:01:17.590,0:01:24.590
Now, how do we describe this in terms for
limit game?
0:01:26.530,0:01:33.530
KM: So, skeptic starts off with the first
part of the definition.
0:01:34.990,0:01:38.189
Vipul: By picking the epsilon? Okay, that's
the thing written in
0:01:38.189,0:01:42.939
black. What's the skeptic trying to do? What's the
goal of the skeptic?
0:01:42.939,0:01:49.100
KM: To try and pick an epsilon that would
not work.
0:01:49.100,0:01:53.450
Vipul: So the goal of the skeptic is to try
to show that the statement is false.
0:01:53.450,0:01:54.100
KM: Yeah.
0:01:54.100,0:01:57.790
Vipul: Right? In this case the skeptic should
try to start by choosing
0:01:57.790,0:02:02.220
an epsilon that is really [small] -- the goal of
the skeptic is to pick an
0:02:02.220,0:02:04.500
epsilon that's really small, what is the
skeptic trying to challenge
0:02:04.500,0:02:07.920
the prover into doing by picking the epsilon?
The skeptic is trying to
0:02:07.920,0:02:11.959
challenge the prover into trapping the function
close to L when x is
0:02:11.959,0:02:17.040
close to c. And the way the skeptic specifies
what is meant by "close to L" is
0:02:17.040,0:02:19.860
by the choice of epsilon. Okay?
0:02:19.860,0:02:24.900
When picking epsilon the skeptic is
effectively picking this interval, L -
0:02:24.900,0:02:30.700
epsilon, L + epsilon). Okay? And basically
that's what the skeptic is
0:02:30.700,0:02:33.680
doing. The prover is then picking a delta.
What is the goal of the
0:02:33.680,0:02:36.239
prover in picking the delta? The prover is
saying, "Here's how I can
0:02:36.239,0:02:40.099
trap the function within that interval. I'm
going to pick a delta and
0:02:40.099,0:02:43.520
my claim is that if the x value within delta distance of c, except the
0:02:43.520,0:02:47.000
point c itself, so my claim is for any x value
there the function is
0:02:47.000,0:02:48.260
trapped in here."
0:02:48.260,0:02:52.819
So, the prover picks the delta and then the
skeptic tries to
0:02:52.819,0:02:56.709
test the prover's claim by picking an x
0:02:56.709,0:02:59.670
which is within the interval specified by
the prover and then they
0:02:59.670,0:03:03.379
both check whether f(x) is within epsilon
distance [of L]. If it is
0:03:03.379,0:03:07.940
then the prover wins and if it is not, if
this [|f(x) - L|]is not less
0:03:07.940,0:03:09.989
than epsilon then the skeptic wins. Okay?
0:03:09.989,0:03:13.659
So, the skeptic is picking the neighborhood
of the target point which
0:03:13.659,0:03:17.030
in this case is just the open interval of
radius epsilon, the prover
0:03:17.030,0:03:21.940
is picking the delta which is effectively the
neighborhood of the domain
0:03:21.940,0:03:25.760
point except the point c as I've said open
interval (c - delta, c +
0:03:25.760,0:03:30.870
delta) excluding c and then the skeptic picks
an x in the neighborhood
0:03:30.870,0:03:35.700
specified by prover and if the function value
is within the interval
0:03:35.700,0:03:38.830
specified by the skeptic then the prover wins.
0:03:38.830,0:03:41.989
Now, what does it mean to say the statement
is true in terms of the
0:03:41.989,0:03:43.080
game?
0:03:43.080,0:03:50.080
KM: So, it means that the prover is always
going to win the game.
0:03:51.849,0:03:55.629
Vipul: Well, sort of. I mean the prover may
play it stupidly. The
0:03:55.629,0:04:00.750
prover can win the game if the prover plays
well. So, the prover has a
0:04:00.750,0:04:03.230
winning strategy for the game. Okay?
0:04:05.230,0:04:10.299
The statement is true if the prover has a
winning strategy for the
0:04:10.299,0:04:14.090
game and that means the prover has a way
of playing the game such that
0:04:14.090,0:04:17.320
whatever the skeptic does the prover is going
to win the game. The
0:04:17.320,0:04:20.789
statement is considered false if the skeptic
has a winning strategy
0:04:20.789,0:04:23.370
for the game which means the skeptic has a
way of playing so that
0:04:23.370,0:04:25.729
whatever the prover does the skeptic can win
the game.
0:04:25.729,0:04:27.599
Or if the game doesn't make sense at all
...
0:04:27.599,0:04:29.460
maybe the function is not defined on
0:04:29.460,0:04:31.050
the immediate left and right of c.
0:04:31.050,0:04:32.370
If the function isn't defined then we
0:04:32.370,0:04:34.160
cannot even make sense of the statement.
0:04:34.160,0:04:36.990
Either way -- the skeptic has a winning strategy
0:04:36.990,0:04:37.770
or the game doesn't make sense --
0:04:41.770,0:04:43.470
then the statement is false.
0:04:43.470,0:04:47.660
If the prover has a winning strategy
the statement is true.
0:04:47.660,0:04:54.660
With this background in mind let's look
at some common misconceptions.
0:04:56.540,0:05:03.540
Okay. Let's say we are trying to prove that
the limit as x approaches
0:05:27.620,0:05:31.530
2 of x^2 is 4, so is that statement correct?
The statement we're
0:05:31.530,0:05:32.060
trying to prove?
0:05:32.060,0:05:32.680
KM: Yes.
0:05:32.680,0:05:35.960
Vipul: That's correct. Because in fact x^2
is a continuous function
0:05:35.960,0:05:40.160
and the limit of a continuous function at
the point is just the
0:05:40.160,0:05:43.030
value at the point and 2^2 is 4. But we're
going to now try to prove
0:05:43.030,0:05:48.530
this formally using the epsilon-delta definition
of limit, okay? Now
0:05:48.530,0:05:51.229
in terms of the epsilon-delta definition or
rather in terms of this
0:05:51.229,0:05:55.160
game setup, what we need to do is we need
to describe a winning
0:05:55.160,0:06:01.460
strategy for the prover. Okay? We need to
describe delta in terms of
0:06:01.460,0:06:05.240
epsilon. The prover essentially ... the only
move the prover makes is
0:06:05.240,0:06:09.130
this choice of delta. Right? The skeptic picked
epsilon, the prover
0:06:09.130,0:06:12.810
picked delta then the skeptic picks x and
then they judge who won. The
0:06:12.810,0:06:15.810
only choice the prover makes is the choice
of delta, right?
0:06:15.810,0:06:16.979
KM: Exactly.
0:06:16.979,0:06:20.080
Vipul: The prover has to specify delta in terms
of epsilon.
0:06:20.080,0:06:24.819
So, here is my strategy. My strategy is I'm
going to choose delta as,
0:06:24.819,0:06:29.509
I as a prover is going to choose delta as
epsilon over the absolute
0:06:29.509,0:06:33.690
value of x plus 2 [|x + 2|]. Okay?
0:06:33.690,0:06:36.880
Now, what I want to show that this strategy
works. So, what I'm claiming
0:06:36.880,0:06:39.840
is that if ... so let me just finish this
and then you can tell me where
0:06:39.840,0:06:43.419
I went wrong here, okay? I'm claiming that
this strategy works which
0:06:43.419,0:06:47.130
means I'm claiming that if the skeptic now
picks any x which is within
0:06:47.130,0:06:54.130
delta distance of 2; the target point,
0:06:56.710,0:07:01.490
then the function value is within epsilon
distance of 4, the claimed
0:07:01.490,0:07:04.080
limit. That's what I want to show.
0:07:04.080,0:07:08.300
Now is that true? Well, here's how I do
it. I say, I start by
0:07:08.300,0:07:13.539
taking this expression, I factor it as
|x - 2||x + 2|. The absolute
0:07:13.539,0:07:16.810
value of product is the product of the absolute
values so this can be
0:07:16.810,0:07:21.599
split like that. Now I say, well, we know
that |x - 2| is less than
0:07:21.599,0:07:24.979
delta and this is a positive thing. So we
can write this as less than delta
0:07:24.979,0:07:31.979
times absolute value x plus 2. Right? And
this delta is epsilon over
0:07:35.599,0:07:37.620
|x + 2| and we get epsilon.
0:07:37.620,0:07:40.460
So, this thing equals something, less than
something, equals
0:07:40.460,0:07:43.580
something, equals something, you have a chain
of things, there's one
0:07:43.580,0:07:47.720
step that you have less than. So overall we
get that this expression,
0:07:47.720,0:07:53.740
this thing is less than epsilon. So, we have
shown that whatever x the
0:07:53.740,0:08:00.370
skeptic would pick, the function value lies
within the epsilon
0:08:00.370,0:08:05.030
distance of the claimed limit. As long as the skeptic picks x within
0:08:05.030,0:08:09.240
delta distance of the target point.
0:08:09.240,0:08:16.240
Does this strategy work? Is this a proof?
What's wrong with this?
0:08:24.270,0:08:31.270
Do you think there's anything wrong
with the algebra I've done here?
0:08:33.510,0:08:40.510
KM: Well, we said that ...
0:08:40.910,0:08:47.910
Vipul: So, is there anything wrong in the
algebra here? This is this,
0:08:50.160,0:08:51.740
this is less than delta, delta ... So, this
part
0:08:51.740,0:08:52.089
seems fine, right?
0:08:52.089,0:08:52.339
KM: Yes.
0:08:52.330,0:08:55.640
Vipul: There's nothing wrong in the algebra
here. So, what could be
0:08:55.640,0:09:00.310
wrong? Our setup seems fine. If the x value
is within delta distance
0:09:00.310,0:09:03.350
of 2 then the function value is within epsilon
distance of 4. That's
0:09:03.350,0:09:05.360
exactly what we want to prove, right?
0:09:05.360,0:09:11.120
So, there's nothing wrong this point onward.
So, the error happened
0:09:11.120,0:09:14.440
somewhere here. What do you think
was wrong
0:09:14.440,0:09:21.160
here? In the strategy choice step? What do
you think went wrong in the
0:09:21.160,0:09:24.010
strategy choice step?
0:09:24.010,0:09:28.850
Well, okay, so in what order do they play their moves?
Skeptic will choose the epsilon,
0:09:28.850,0:09:29.760
then?
0:09:29.760,0:09:35.130
KM: Then the prover chooses delta.
0:09:35.130,0:09:36.080
Vipul: Prover chooses delta. Then?
0:09:36.080,0:09:39.529
KM: Then the skeptic has to choose the x value.
0:09:39.529,0:09:42.470
Vipul: x value. So, when the prover is deciding
the strategy, when the
0:09:42.470,0:09:45.860
prover is choosing the delta, what information
does the prover have?
0:09:45.860,0:09:48.410
KM: He just has the information on epsilon.
0:09:48.410,0:09:50.500
Vipul: Just the information on epsilon. So?
0:09:50.500,0:09:57.060
KM: So, in this case the mistake was that
because he didn't know the x value yet?
0:09:57.060,0:10:03.100
Vipul: The strategy cannot depend on x.
0:10:03.100,0:10:04.800
KM: Yeah.
0:10:04.800,0:10:09.790
Vipul: So, the prover is picking the
delta based on x but the
0:10:09.790,0:10:12.660
prover doesn't know x at this stage when
picking the delta. The delta
0:10:12.660,0:10:15.910
that the prover chooses has to be completely
a function of epsilon
0:10:15.910,0:10:19.680
alone, it cannot depend on the future moves
of the skeptic because the
0:10:19.680,0:10:23.700
prover cannot read the skeptic's mind. Okay?
And doesn't know what the
0:10:23.700,0:10:24.800
skeptic plans to do.
0:10:24.800,0:10:31.800
So that is the ... that's the proof. I call
this the ...
0:10:42.240,0:10:43.040
Can you see what I call this?
0:10:43.040,0:10:45.399
KM: The strongly telepathic prover.
0:10:45.399,0:10:51.470
Vipul: So, do you know what I meant by that?
Well, I meant the prover
0:10:51.470,0:10:58.470
is reading the skeptic's mind. All
right? It's called telepathy.
0:11:07.769,0:11:10.329
0:11:10.329,0:11:17.329
Okay, the next one.
0:11:25.589,0:11:30.230
This one says there's a function defined piecewise. Okay? It's defined
0:11:30.230,0:11:34.829
as g(x) is x when x is rational and zero when
x is irrational. So,
0:11:34.829,0:11:41.829
what would this look like? Well, pictorially, there's a line y
0:11:42.750,0:11:49.510
equals x and there's the x-axis and the
graph is just the irrational x
0:11:49.510,0:11:52.750
coordinate parts of this line and the rational
x coordinate parts of
0:11:52.750,0:11:56.350
this line. It's kind of like both these
lines but only parts of
0:11:56.350,0:11:58.529
them. Right?
0:11:58.529,0:12:02.079
Now we want to show that limit as x approaches
zero of g(x) is
0:12:02.079,0:12:06.899
zero. So just intuitively, do you think the statement
is true? As x goes
0:12:06.899,0:12:09.910
to zero, does this function go to zero?
0:12:09.910,0:12:10.610
KM: Yes.
0:12:10.610,0:12:17.610
Vipul: Because both the pieces are going to
zero. That's the intuition. Okay?
0:12:20.610,0:12:24.089
This is the proof we have here. So the idea
is we again think about it
0:12:24.089,0:12:27.790
in terms of the game. The skeptic first picks
the epsilon, okay? Now
0:12:27.790,0:12:30.779
the prover has to choose the delta, but
there are really two cases
0:12:30.779,0:12:35.200
on x, right? x rational and x irrational.
So the prover chooses the
0:12:35.200,0:12:39.459
delta based on whether the x is rational
or irrational, so if
0:12:39.459,0:12:43.880
the x is rational then the prover just picks
delta equals epsilon, and
0:12:43.880,0:12:48.339
that's good enough for rational x, right?
Because for rational x the
0:12:48.339,0:12:51.410
slope of the line is one so picking delta
as epsilon is good enough.
0:12:51.410,0:12:55.760
For irrational x, if the skeptic's planning
to choose an irrational x
0:12:55.760,0:12:59.730
then the prover can just choose any delta
actually. Like just fix
0:12:59.730,0:13:03.880
a delta in advance. Like delta is one or
something. Because if x is
0:13:03.880,0:13:10.430
irrational then it's like a constant function
and therefore, like, for
0:13:10.430,0:13:14.970
any delta the function is trapped within epsilon
distance of the claimed
0:13:14.970,0:13:16.970
limit zero. Okay?
0:13:16.970,0:13:19.950
So the prover makes two cases based
on whether the skeptic is going
0:13:19.950,0:13:26.950
to pick a rational or an irrational x
and based on that if
0:13:27.040,0:13:30.730
it's rational this is the prover's strategy,
if it's irrational then
0:13:30.730,0:13:34.050
the prover can just pick any delta.
0:13:34.050,0:13:37.630
Can you tell me what's wrong with this proof?
0:13:37.630,0:13:44.630
KM: So, he [the prover] is still kind of
basing it on what the skeptic is going to
0:13:44.750,0:13:45.800
pick next.
0:13:45.800,0:13:49.100
Vipul: Okay. It's actually pretty much the
same problem [as the
0:13:49.100,0:13:55.449
preceding one], in a somewhat milder form.
The prover is making
0:13:55.449,0:13:59.959
cases based on what the skeptic is going to
do next, and choosing a
0:13:59.959,0:14:01.940
strategy according to that. But the prover
doesn't actually know what
0:14:01.940,0:14:05.089
the skeptic is going to do next, so the prover
should actually have a
0:14:05.089,0:14:08.970
single strategy that works in both cases.
So cases will be made to
0:14:08.970,0:14:12.209
prove that the strategy works but the prover
has to have a single
0:14:12.209,0:14:12.459
strategy.
0:14:12.449,0:14:15.370
Now in this case the correct way of doing the proof is just, the
0:14:15.370,0:14:18.779
prover can pick delta as epsilon because that
will work in both cases.
0:14:18.779,0:14:20.019
KM: Exactly.
0:14:20.019,0:14:23.320
Vipul: Yeah. But in general if you have two
different piece
0:14:23.320,0:14:26.579
definitions then the way you would do it so
you would pick delta as
0:14:26.579,0:14:30.300
the min [minimum] of the deltas that work in
the two different pieces,
0:14:30.300,0:14:32.910
because you want to make sure that
both cases are covered. But
0:14:32.910,0:14:36.730
the point is you have to do that -- take
the min use that rather than
0:14:36.730,0:14:39.730
just say, "I'm going to choose my delta
based on what the skeptic is
0:14:39.730,0:14:42.589
going to move next." Okay?
0:14:42.589,0:14:49.120
So this is a milder form of the same
misconception that that was there in
0:14:49.120,0:14:56.120
the previous example we saw.
0:15:04.620,0:15:11.620
So, this is what I call the mildly telepathic
prover, right? The
0:15:14.970,0:15:18.579
prover is still behaving telepathically
predicting the skeptic's future
0:15:18.579,0:15:23.740
moves but it's not so bad. The prover is
just making, like, doing a
0:15:23.740,0:15:25.470
coin toss type of telepathy. Whereas in the
earlier one is prover is
0:15:25.470,0:15:30.790
actually, deciding exactly what x the skeptic
would pick. But it's still
0:15:30.790,0:15:32.790
the same problem and the reason why I think
people will have this
0:15:32.790,0:15:36.329
misconception is because they don't think
about it in terms of the
0:15:36.329,0:15:38.970
sequence in which the moves are made, and
the information that each
0:15:38.970,0:15:45.970
party has at any given stage of the game.
0:15:50.889,0:15:57.889
Let's do this one.
0:16:10.930,0:16:15.259
So, this is a limit claim, right? It says
that the limit as x approaches
0:16:15.259,0:16:22.259
1 of 2x is 2, okay? How do we go about showing
this? Well, the idea is
0:16:23.699,0:16:27.990
let's play the game, right? Let's say
the skeptic picks epsilon as
0:16:27.990,0:16:34.990
0.1, okay? The prover picks delta as 0.05.
The skeptic is when picking
0:16:35.139,0:16:38.790
epsilon as 0.1, the skeptic is saying, "Please
trap the function
0:16:38.790,0:16:43.800
between 1.9 and 2.1. Okay? Find the delta
small enough so that the
0:16:43.800,0:16:48.389
function value is trapped between 1.9 and
2.1. The prover picks delta
0:16:48.389,0:16:55.389
as 0.05 which means the prover is now getting
the input value trapped
0:16:57.850,0:17:04.850
between 0.95 and 1.05. That's 1 plus minus
this thing. And now the
0:17:05.439,0:17:09.070
prover is claiming that if the x value is
within this much distance of
0:17:09.070,0:17:13.959
1 except the value equal to 1, then the function
value is within 0.1
0:17:13.959,0:17:17.630
distance of 2. So, the skeptic tries picking
x within the interval
0:17:17.630,0:17:23.049
specified by the prover, so maybe the skeptic
picks 0.97 which is
0:17:23.049,0:17:26.380
within 0.05 distance of 1.
0:17:26.380,0:17:31.570
And then they check that 2x [the function f(x)] is
1.94, that is at the distance of 0.06
0:17:31.570,0:17:38.570
from 2. So, it's within 0.1 of the claimed
limit 2. So who won the game?
0:17:38.780,0:17:42.650
If the thing is within the interval then who
wins?
0:17:42.650,0:17:43.320
KM: The prover.
0:17:43.320,0:17:46.720
Vipul: The prover wins, right? So, the prover
won the game so therefore
0:17:46.720,0:17:52.100
this limit statement is true, right? So, what's
wrong with this as a
0:17:52.100,0:17:57.370
proof that the limit statement is true? How
is this not a proof that
0:17:57.370,0:18:03.870
the limit statement is true? This what I've
written here, why is that
0:18:03.870,0:18:05.990
not a proof that the limit statement is true?
0:18:05.990,0:18:11.960
KM: Because it's only an example for the
specific choice of epsilon and x.
0:18:11.960,0:18:16.200
Vipul: Yes, exactly. So, it's like a single
play of the game, the
0:18:16.200,0:18:20.470
prover wins, but the limit statement doesn't
just say that the prover
0:18:20.470,0:18:24.380
wins the game, it says the prover has a winning
strategy. It says that
0:18:24.380,0:18:27.660
the prover can win the game regardless of
how the skeptic plays;
0:18:27.660,0:18:31.070
there's a way for the prover to do that.
This just gives one example
0:18:31.070,0:18:34.640
where the prover won the game, but it doesn't
tell us that regardless
0:18:34.640,0:18:37.280
of the epsilon the skeptic picks the prover
can pick a delta such that
0:18:37.280,0:18:41.090
regardless of the x the skeptic picks, the
function is within the
0:18:41.090,0:18:45.530
thing. So that's the issue here. Okay?
0:18:45.530,0:18:51.160
Now you notice -- I'm sure you've noticed
this but the way the game and the
0:18:51.160,0:18:58.160
limit definition. The way the limit definition
goes, you see that all
0:18:59.870,0:19:04.260
the moves of the skeptic we write "for every"
"for all." Right? And
0:19:04.260,0:19:07.390
for all the moves of the prover we write "there
exists." Why do we do
0:19:07.390,0:19:11.140
that? Because we are trying to get a winning
strategy for the prover,
0:19:11.140,0:19:14.309
so the prover controls his own moves. Okay?
0:19:14.309,0:19:15.250
KM: Exactly.
0:19:15.250,0:19:18.630
Vipul: So, therefore wherever it's a prover
move it will be a there
0:19:18.630,0:19:22.240
exists. Where there is a skeptic's move
the prover has to be prepared
0:19:22.240,0:19:29.240
for anything the skeptic does. All those moves
are "for every."
0:19:30.559,0:19:33.850
One last one. By the way, this one was called,
"You say you want a
0:19:33.850,0:19:36.870
replay?" Which is basically they're just
saying that just one play is
0:19:36.870,0:19:40.890
not good enough. If the statement is actually
true, the prover should
0:19:40.890,0:19:45.370
be willing to accept it if the skeptic wants a
replay and say they want to
0:19:45.370,0:19:47.679
play it again, the prover should say "sure"
and "I'm going to win
0:19:47.679,0:19:53.320
again." That's what it would mean for
the limit statement to be true.
0:19:53.320,0:20:00.320
One last one. Just kind of pretty similar
to the one we just saw. But with
0:20:16.690,0:20:23.690
a little twist.
0:20:39.020,0:20:46.020
Okay, this one, let's see. We are saying
that the limit as x
0:20:50.450,0:20:56.900
approaches zero of sin(1/x) is zero, right?
Let's see how we prove
0:20:56.900,0:21:01.409
this. If the statement true ... well, do you
think the statement is
0:21:01.409,0:21:08.409
true? As x approach to zero, is sin 1 over
x approaching zero? So
0:21:13.980,0:21:20.980
here's the picture of sin(1/x). y-axis.
It's an oscillatory function
0:21:22.010,0:21:27.870
and it has this kind of picture. Does it doesn't
go to zero as x
0:21:27.870,0:21:29.270
approaches zero?
0:21:29.270,0:21:30.669
KM: No.
0:21:30.669,0:21:35.539
Vipul: No. So, you said that this statement
is false, but I'm going to
0:21:35.539,0:21:38.700
try to show it's true. Here's how I do
that. Let's say the skeptic
0:21:38.700,0:21:44.510
picks epsilon as two, okay? And then the prover
... so, the epsilon is
0:21:44.510,0:21:48.520
two so that's the interval of width two
about the game limit zero. The
0:21:48.520,0:21:55.150
prover picks delta as 1/pi. Whatever x the
skeptic picks, okay?
0:21:55.150,0:22:02.150
Regardless of the x that the
skeptic picks, the function is trapped
within epsilon of the game limit. Is that
0:22:10.340,0:22:16.900
true? Yes, because sin
(1/x) is between minus 1 and 1, right? Therefore
0:22:16.900,0:22:20.100
since the skeptic
picked an epsilon of 2, the function value
0:22:20.100,0:22:24.030
is completely trapped in
the interval from -1 to 1, so therefore the
0:22:24.030,0:22:27.919
prover managed to trap it
within distance of 2 of the claimed limit zero.
0:22:27.919,0:22:30.970
Okay? Regardless of what
the skeptic does, right? It's not just saying
0:22:30.970,0:22:34.370
that the prover won the
game once, it's saying whatever x the skeptic
0:22:34.370,0:22:40.740
picks the prover can
still win the game. Right? Regardless if the
0:22:40.740,0:22:43.780
x the skeptic picks, the
prover picked a delta such that the function
0:22:43.780,0:22:48.100
is trapped. It's
completely trapped, okay? It's not an issue
0:22:48.100,0:22:51.130
of whether the skeptic
picked a stupid x. Do you think that this
0:22:51.130,0:22:52.130
proves the statement?
0:22:52.130,0:22:59.130
KM: No, I mean in this case it still depended
on the epsilon that the
0:23:01.030,0:23:01.820
skeptic chose.
0:23:01.820,0:23:04.980
Vipul: It's still dependent on the epsilon
that the skeptic chose? So,
0:23:04.980,0:23:05.679
yes, that's exactly the problem.
0:23:05.679,0:23:09.370
So, we proved that the statement -- we prove
that from this part onward
0:23:09.370,0:23:12.500
but it still, we didn't prove it for all
epsilon, we only prove for
0:23:12.500,0:23:16.309
epsilon is 2, and 2 is a very big number,
right? Because the
0:23:16.309,0:23:19.970
oscillation is all happening between minus
1 and 1, and if in fact the
0:23:19.970,0:23:26.970
skeptic had pick epsilon as 1 or something
smaller than 1 then the two
0:23:27.030,0:23:32.169
epsilon strip width would not cover the entire
-1, +1
0:23:32.169,0:23:35.490
interval, and then whatever the prover did
the skeptic could actually
0:23:35.490,0:23:39.530
pick an x and show that it's not trapped.
So, in fact the reason why
0:23:39.530,0:23:43.110
the prover could win the game from this point
onward is that the
0:23:43.110,0:23:45.900
skeptic made a stupid choice of epsilon.
Okay?
0:23:45.900,0:23:52.289
In all these situation, all these misconceptions,
the main problem is,
0:23:52.289,0:23:58.919
that we're not ... keeping in mind the order
which the moves I made
0:23:58.919,0:24:04.179
and how much information each claim has at
the stage where that move
0:24:04.179,0:24:04.789
is being made.
Strongly telepathic prover
Spot the error in this:
Consider the limit problem
. The
proof corresponding to this problem would involve a game between a prover and a skeptic. To show that the limit statement is true, it suffices to exhibit a winning strategy for the prover for the game. The strategy is as follows. Pick
. Let's prove that this works.
Specific claim: For any skeptic-picked
, if the prover picks
such that
, then regardless of the
that the skeptic picks with
, we have
.
Proof of claim: We have:

The error is as follows: [SHOW MORE]
Recall the sequence of moves made in the game. First, the skeptic picks

. Then, the prover picks

.
Then, the skeptic picks a test value of

to challenge the prover's claim of the function being trapped. In particular, this means that at the stage that the prover picks the value of

, the prover is
unaware of the value of

that the skeptic plans to pick. Hence, the prover's strategy for choosing

cannot use

. Rather, the prover must have a strategy for

purely in terms of

, which is the only piece of information known to the prover at that stage in the game.
This also explains why we called this error the strongly telepathic prover, i.e., it involved the prover reading the skeptic's mind about future planned moves, which is impermissible.
Although this strategy is wrong, it can be fixed to get a correct strategy, i.e., this is the right way to
start thinking about how this type of problem could be attacked. What the prover needs to do is pick a choice of

that works for all

that the skeptic can pick in the constrained interval. The algebra done here provides some guidelines on how the prover can make such a choice, but another idea, namely, the idea of a
cut-off value, is needed to complete the strategy.
Mildly telepathic prover
Spot the error in this:
Consider the limit problem:

We want to show that 
For this game, we need to exhibit a winning strategy for the prover. The winning strategy is as follows. The skeptic first chooses
. The prover now makes two cases. If the skeptic is planning to pick a rational value of
, then the prover chooses the strategy
. If the skeptic is planning to choose an irrational value of
, then the prover can pick any
.
Clearly, the prover's strategy works in both cases, so we have a winning strategy.
Th error is as follows: [SHOW MORE]
Recall the sequence of moves made in the game. First, the skeptic picks

. Then, the prover picks

.
Then, the skeptic picks a test value of

to challenge the prover's claim of the function being trapped. In particular, this means that at the stage that the prover picks the value of

, the prover is
unaware of the value of

that the skeptic plans to pick. Hence, the prover's strategy for choosing

cannot rely on specifics about what

the skeptic plans to choose.
This error is similar to the preceding error. Both involve impermissible telepathy on the prover's part in reading the skeptic's mind. The strongly telepathic prover error is more severe in the sense that it involves the prover reading the exact value of
that the skeptic plans to play, whereas the mildly telepathic prover error only involves the prover guessing the type of value (rational or irrational) that the skeptic plans to play.
The fix for the mildly telepathic prover error is that the prover chooses a
combined strategy that
simultaneously works for both eventualities. In this situation, the strategy

works for both situations (rational and irrational

). In general, for a function with two piece definitions for rational and irrational points in the domain, we need to take the
min of the

-strategies that work for the definitions individually. A similar approach works for different definitions on the left and right.
You say you want a replay?
Spot the error in this:
Consider the limit problem
. Let's think of this in terms of an
game. The skeptic begins by picking
. The prover chooses
. The skeptic now chooses
. This value of
is within the
-distance of
. It's now checked that
is within
-distance of the claimed limit
. The prover has thus won the game, and we have established the truth of the limit statement.
The error is as follows: [SHOW MORE]
This involves
only one play of the

limit game. The prover did win this play of the game. However, for us to declare the limit statement to be true, we need to establish that the prover has a
winning strategy for the game, which means we need to demonstrate how the prover would pick a

in terms of each choice of

(preferably by specifying

explicitly as a function of

) and then show that the strategy works for all

within

-distance of the point on the domain side.
It so happens that in this case, the limit statement is true and the prover did play the game according to one possible winning strategy:

. However, since we weren't actually told the winning strategy, let alone given an explanation of why it works, what we're given fails as a proof.
Playing to lose
Spot the error in this:
Here's an easy proof that
. We need to show that the prover has a winning strategy for the game. Let's say the skeptic starts out by picking
. The prover then picks
. It can now easily be verified that for
,
, because the
function is trapped within
. Thus, the prover has succeeded in trapping the function within the $\varepsilon$-interval specified by the skeptic, and hence won the game. The limit statement is therefore true.
The error is as follows: [SHOW MORE]
This involves
only one choice of

. The proof does show that with the choice

, the prover wins the game. However, in order to show that the limit statement is true, one would need to demonstrate that the prover wins the game for
every possible choice of

. In particular, from the skeptic's viewpoint,
smaller is smarter, so the prover needs to have a strategy to win the game for arbitrarily small

.
In fact, the limit statement is false, and for any choice of

, the prover
cannot win the game, because the range of the function on the immediate left and immediate right of zero is
![{\displaystyle [-1,1]}](https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/51e3b7f14a6f70e614728c583409a0b9a8b9de01)
.
Conceptual definition and various cases
Formulation of conceptual definition
Below is the conceptual definition of limit. Suppose
is a function defined in a neighborhood of the point
, except possibly at the point
itself. We say that:
if:
- For every choice of neighborhood of
(where the term neighborhood is suitably defined)
- there exists a choice of neighborhood of
(where the term neighborhood is suitably defined) such that
- for all
that are in the chosen neighborhood of 
is in the chosen neighborhood of
.
{{#widget:YouTube|id=bE_aKfmUHN8}}
Full timed transcript: [SHOW MORE]
0:00:15.570,0:00:19.570
Vipul: Ok, so in this talk I'm going to
do the conceptual definition
0:00:19.570,0:00:26.320
of limit, which is important for a number
of reasons. The main reason
0:00:26.320,0:00:31.349
is it allows you to construct definitions
of limit, not just for this
0:00:31.349,0:00:34.430
one variable, function of one variable, two
sided limit which you have
0:00:34.430,0:00:38.930
hopefully seen before you saw this video.
Also for a number of other
0:00:38.930,0:00:43.210
limit cases which will include limits to infinity,
functions of two
0:00:43.210,0:00:47.789
variables, etc. So this is a general blueprint
for thinking about
0:00:47.789,0:00:54.789
limits. So let me put this definition here
in front for this. As I am
0:00:54.890,0:00:59.289
going, I will write things in more general.
So the starting thing is...
0:00:59.289,0:01:03.899
first of all f should be defined around the
point c, need not be
0:01:03.899,0:01:08.810
defined at c, but should be defined everywhere
around c. I won't write
0:01:08.810,0:01:11.750
that down, I don't want to complicate things
too much. So we start
0:01:11.750,0:01:18.750
with saying for every epsilon greater than
zero. Why are we picking
0:01:19.920,0:01:21.689
this epsilon greater than zero?
0:01:21.689,0:01:22.790
Rui: Why?
0:01:22.790,0:01:26.070
Vipul: What is the goal of this epsilon? Where
will it finally appear?
0:01:26.070,0:01:28.520
It will finally appear here. Is this captured?
0:01:28.520,0:01:29.520
Rui: Yes.
0:01:29.520,0:01:32.920
Vipul: Which means what we actually are picking
when we...if you've
0:01:32.920,0:01:37.720
seen the limit as a game video or you know
how to make a limit as a
0:01:37.720,0:01:41.700
game. This first thing has been chosen by
the skeptic, right, and the
0:01:41.700,0:01:45.840
skeptic is trying to challenge the prover
into trapping f(x) within L - epsilon to
0:01:45.840,0:01:50.210
L + epsilon. Even if you haven't
seen that [the game], the main focus of
0:01:50.210,0:01:55.570
picking epsilon is to pick this interval surrounding
L. So instead of
0:01:55.570,0:02:02.570
saying, for every epsilon greater than zero,
let's say for every
0:02:04.259,0:02:11.259
choice of neighborhood of L. So what I mean
by that, I have not
0:02:19.650,0:02:23.760
clearly defined it so this is a definition
which is not really a
0:02:23.760,0:02:28.139
definition, sort of the blueprint for definitions.
It is what you fill
0:02:28.139,0:02:31.570
in the details [of] and get a correct definition.
So by neighborhood,
0:02:31.570,0:02:36.180
I mean, in this case, I would mean something
like (L - epsilon, L +
0:02:36.180,0:02:43.180
epsilon). It is an open interval surrounding
L. Ok, this one. The
0:02:44.590,0:02:47.160
conceptual definition starts for every choice
of neighborhood of
0:02:47.160,0:02:54.160
L. The domain neighborhood, I haven't really
defined, but that is the
0:02:58.359,0:03:05.359
point, it is the general conceptual definition.
There exists...what
0:03:09.810,0:03:11.530
should come next? [ANSWER!]
0:03:11.530,0:03:16.530
Rui: A delta?
Vipul: That is what the concrete definition
0:03:16.530,0:03:18.530
says, but what would the
conceptual thing say?
0:03:18.530,0:03:21.680
Rui: A neighborhood.
Vipul: Of what? [ANSWER!]
0:03:21.680,0:03:28.680
Rui: Of c.
Vipul: Of c, of the domain. The goal of picking
0:03:34.639,0:03:37.970
delta is to find a
neighborhood of c. Points to the immediate
0:03:37.970,0:03:44.919
left and immediate
right of c. There exists a choice of neighborhood
0:03:44.919,0:03:51.919
of c such that, by
the way I sometimes abbreviate, such that,
0:03:59.850,0:04:06.109
as s.t., okay, don't get
confused by that. Okay, what next? Let's
0:04:06.109,0:04:12.309
bring out the thing. The next
thing is for all x with |x - c| less than
0:04:12.309,0:04:19.309
... all x in the neighborhood
except the point c itself. So what should
0:04:20.040,0:04:27.040
come here? For all x in the
neighborhood of c, I put x not equal to c.
0:04:36.570,0:04:37.160
Is that clear?
0:04:37.160,0:04:37.520
Rui: Yes.
0:04:37.520,0:04:44.520
Vipul: x not equal to c in the neighborhood
chosen for c. The reason
0:04:49.310,0:04:53.360
we're excluding the point c that we take the
limit at the point and we
0:04:53.360,0:04:55.770
just care about stuff around, we don't care
about what is happening at
0:04:55.770,0:05:02.770
the point. For c...this chosen neighborhood...I
am writing the black
0:05:09.880,0:05:14.440
for choices that the skeptic makes and the
red for the choices the
0:05:14.440,0:05:16.490
prover makes, actually that's reverse of what
I did in the other
0:05:16.490,0:05:21.320
video, but that's ok. They can change colors.
If you have seen that
0:05:21.320,0:05:24.710
limit game thing, this color pattern just
[means] ... the black
0:05:24.710,0:05:28.400
matches with the skeptic choices and the red
matches what the prover
0:05:28.400,0:05:32.710
chooses. If you haven't seen that, it is
not an issue. Just imagine
0:05:32.710,0:05:35.820
it's a single color.
0:05:35.820,0:05:40.820
What happens next? What do we need to check
in order to say this limit
0:05:40.820,0:05:42.950
is L? So f(x) should be where?
0:05:42.950,0:05:44.980
Rui: In the neighborhood of L.
0:05:44.980,0:05:48.060
Vipul: Yeah. In the concrete definition we
said f(x) minus L is less
0:05:48.060,0:05:51.440
than epsilon. Right, but that is just stating
that f(x) is in the
0:05:51.440,0:05:58.440
chosen neighborhood. So f(x) is in the chosen
neighborhood of...Now
0:06:08.470,0:06:15.470
that we have this blueprint for the definition.
This is a blueprint
0:06:25.660,0:06:32.660
for the definition. We'll write it in blue.
What I mean is, now if I
0:06:34.930,0:06:40.700
ask you to define a limit, in a slightly different
context; you just
0:06:40.700,0:06:46.280
have to figure out in order to make this rigorous
definition. What
0:06:46.280,0:06:49.240
word do you need to understand the meaning
of? [ANSWER!]
0:06:49.240,0:06:53.780
Rui: Neighborhood.
Vipul: Neighborhood, right. That's the magic
0:06:53.780,0:06:59.810
word behind which I am
hiding the details. If you can understand
0:06:59.810,0:07:06.280
what I mean by neighborhood
then you can turn this into a concrete definition.
Functions of one variable case
The following definitions of neighborhood are good enough to define limits.
- For points in the interior of the domain, for functions of one variable: We can take an open interval centered at the point. For a point
, such an open interval is of the form
. Note that if we exclude the point
itself, we get
.
- For the point
, for functions of one variable: We take intervals of the form
, where
.
- For the point
, for functions of one variable: We can take interval of the form
, where
.
We can now list the nine cases of limits, combining finite and infinite possibilities:
Case |
Definition
|
 |
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
|
 |
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
|
 |
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
|
 |
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
|
 |
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
|
 |
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
|
 |
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
|
 |
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
|
 |
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
|
{{#widget:YouTube|id=EOQby7b-WrA}}
Limit of sequence versus real-sense limit
Recall that the limit of a real-valued function to infinity is defined as follows:
means that:
- For every

- there exists
(we're thinking of the neighborhood
) such that
- for all
(i.e.
)
- we have
(i.e.,
).
Suppose now instead that
is a function restricted to the natural numbers. We can think of
as a sequence, namely the sequence
. In that case:
(in words, the sequence converges to
) means that:
- For every

- there exists
such that
- for all
satisfying
,
- we have
(i.e.,
).
The definitions differ both in their second and third line. However, the difference in the second line (the use of a real number versus a natural number to specify the threshold for the trapping interval) is not important, i.e., we could swap these lines between the definitions without changing the sense of either definition. The key difference between the definitions lies in their third lines. In the real-sense limit definition case, we require trapping of the function value close to the claimed limit for all sufficiently large reals whereas the sequence limit definition requires trapping only for all sufficiently large natural numbers.
To understand this distinction, consider the following: if
is defined on reals, and it has a real-sense limit, i.e.,
for some
, then it must also be true that
. However, it is possible for
to have a sequence limit but not have a real-sense limit. For instance, the function
has
undefined but
is zero, because
takes the value 0 at all integers.
{{#widget:YouTube|id=P9APtpIE4y8}}
Full timed transcript: [SHOW MORE]
0:00:15.530,0:00:22.530
Vipul: Okay. So this talk is going to be about
limit at infinity for functions on real numbers
0:00:24.300,0:00:28.980
and the concept of limits of sequences, how
these definitions are essentially almost the
0:00:28.980,0:00:34.790
same thing and how they differ.
0:00:34.790,0:00:41.790
Okay. So let's begin by reviewing the definition
of the limit as x approaches infinity of f(x).
0:00:42.360,0:00:47.390
Or rather what it means for that limit to
be a number L. Well, what it means is that
0:00:47.390,0:00:52.699
for every epsilon greater than zero, so we
first say for every neighborhood of L, small
0:00:52.699,0:00:59.429
neighborhood of L, given by radius epsilon
there exists a neighborhood of infinity which
0:00:59.429,0:01:03.010
is specified by choosing some a such that
that is
0:01:03.010,0:01:08.670
the interval (a,infinity) ...
0:01:08.670,0:01:15.220
... such that for all x in the interval from
a to infinity. That is for all x within the
0:01:15.220,0:01:20.430
chosen neighborhood of infinity, the f(x)
value is within the chosen neighborhood of
0:01:20.430,0:01:23.390
L. Okay?
0:01:23.390,0:01:28.049
If you want to think about it in terms of
the game between the prover and the skeptic,
0:01:28.049,0:01:34.560
the prover is claiming that the limit as x
approaches infinity of f(x) is L. The skeptic
0:01:34.560,0:01:38.930
begins by picking a neighborhood of L which
is parameterized by its radius epsilon. The
0:01:38.930,0:01:41.619
prover picks the
neighborhood of infinity which is parameterized
0:01:41.619,0:01:48.350
by its lower end a. Then the skeptic picks
a value x between a and infinity. Then they
0:01:48.350,0:01:51.990
check whether absolute value f(x) minus L
[symbolically: |f(x) - L|] is less than epsilon.
0:01:51.990,0:01:56.090
That is they check whether f(x) is in the
chosen neighborhood of L (the neighborhood
0:01:56.090,0:02:00.640
chosen by the skeptic). If it is,
then the prover wins. The prover has managed
0:02:00.640,0:02:05.810
to trap the function: for x large enough,
the prover has managed to trap the function
0:02:05.810,0:02:12.810
within epsilon distance of L. If not, then
the skeptic wins. The statement is true if
0:02:13.610,0:02:18.680
the prover has a winning the strategy for
the game.
0:02:18.680,0:02:21.730
Now, there is a similar definition which one
has for sequences. So, what's a sequence?
0:02:21.730,0:02:26.349
Well, it's just a function from the natural
numbers. And, here, we're talking of sequences
0:02:26.349,0:02:31.610
of real numbers. So, it's a function from
the naturals to the reals and we use the same
0:02:31.610,0:02:37.400
letter f for a good reason. Usually we write
sequences with subscripts, a_n type of thing.
0:02:37.400,0:02:42.409
But I'm using it as a function just to highlight
the similarities. So, limit as n approaches
0:02:42.409,0:02:47.519
infinity, n restricted to the natural numbers
... Usually if it's clear we're talking of
0:02:47.519,0:02:52.830
a sequence, we can remove this part [pointing
to the n in N constraint specification] just
0:02:52.830,0:02:54.980
say limit n approaches infinity f(n),
but since we want to be really clear here,
0:02:54.980,0:02:57.220
I have put this line. Okay?
0:02:57.220,0:03:02.709
So, this limit equals L means "for every epsilon
greater than 0 ..." So, it starts in the same
0:03:02.709,0:03:09.170
way. The skeptic picks a neighborhood of L.
Then the next line is a little different but
0:03:09.170,0:03:16.170
that's not really the crucial part. The skeptic
is choosing epsilon. The prover picks n_0,
0:03:18.799,0:03:22.830
a natural number. Now, here the prover is
picking a real number. Here the prover is
0:03:22.830,0:03:26.700
picking a natural number. That's not really
the big issue. You could in fact change this
0:03:26.700,0:03:33.659
line to match. You could interchange these
lines. It wouldn't affect either definition.
0:03:33.659,0:03:40.599
The next line is the really important one
which is different. In here [pointing to real-sense
0:03:40.599,0:03:47.430
limit], the condition has to be valid for
all x, for all real numbers x which are bigger
0:03:47.430,0:03:51.900
than the threshold which the prover has chosen.
Here on the other hand [pointing to the sequence
0:03:51.900,0:03:56.970
limit] the condition has to be valid for all
natural numbers which are bigger than the
0:03:56.970,0:04:00.659
threshold the prover has chosen. By the way,
some of you may have seen the definition with
0:04:00.659,0:04:07.659
an equality sign here. It doesn't make a difference
to the definition. It does affect what n_0
0:04:09.010,0:04:12.019
you can choose, it will go up or down by one,
but that's not
0:04:12.019,0:04:17.310
really a big issue. The big issue, the big
difference between these two definitions is
0:04:17.310,0:04:23.050
that in this definition you are insisting
that the condition here is valid for all real
0:04:23.050,0:04:30.050
x. So, you are insisting or rather the game
is forcing the prover to figure out how to
0:04:31.650,0:04:36.940
trap the function values for all real x. Whereas
here, the game is only requiring the prover
0:04:36.940,0:04:39.639
to trap the function values for all large
enough
0:04:39.639,0:04:42.880
natural numbers. So, here [real-sense limit]
it's all large enough real numbers. Here [sequence
0:04:42.880,0:04:49.250
limit] it's all large enough natural numbers.
Okay?
0:04:49.250,0:04:56.250
So, that's the only difference essentially.
Now, you can see from the way we have written
0:04:57.050,0:04:59.900
this that this [real-sense limit] is much
stronger. So, if you do have a function which
0:04:59.900,0:05:06.880
is defined on real so that both of these concepts
can be discussed. If it were just a sequence
0:05:06.880,0:05:10.080
and there were no function to talk about then
obviously, we can't even talk about this.
0:05:10.080,0:05:16.860
If there's a function defined on the reals
or on all large enough reals, then we can
0:05:16.860,0:05:21.470
try taking both of these. The existence of
this [pointing at the real-sense limit] and
0:05:21.470,0:05:24.580
[said "or", meant "and"] it's being equal
to L as much stronger than this [the sequence
0:05:24.580,0:05:27.250
limit] equal to L. If this is equal to L then
definitely this [the sequence limit] is equal
0:05:27.250,0:05:29.330
to L. Okay?
0:05:29.330,0:05:32.080
But maybe there are situations where this
[the sequence limit] is equal to some number
0:05:32.080,0:05:38.240
but this thing [the real-sense limit] doesn't
exist. So, I want to take one example here.
0:05:38.240,0:05:45.240
I have written down an example and we can
talk a bit about that is this. So, here is
0:05:45.509,0:05:52.509
a function. f(x) = sin(pi x). This is sin
(pi x) and the corresponding
0:05:55.630,0:06:00.530
function if you just restrict [it] to the
natural numbers is just sin (pi n). Now, what
0:06:00.530,0:06:06.759
does sin (pi n) look like for a natural number
n? In fact for any integer n? pi times
0:06:06.759,0:06:13.759
n is an integer multiple of pi. sin of integer
multiples of pi is zero. Let's make a picture
0:06:18.370,0:06:25.370
of sin ...
0:06:27.289,0:06:33.360
It's oscillating. Right? Integer multiples
of pi are precisely the ones where it's meeting
0:06:33.360,0:06:40.330
the axis. So, in fact we are concerned about
the positive one because we are talking of
0:06:40.330,0:06:45.840
the sequence (natural number [inputs]). Okay?
And so, if you are looking at this sequence,
0:06:45.840,0:06:51.090
all the terms here are zero. So, the limit
is also zero. So, this limit [the sequence
0:06:51.090,0:06:53.030
limit] is zero.
0:06:53.030,0:07:00.030
Okay. What about this limit? Well, we have
the picture again. Is it going anywhere? No.
0:07:05.349,0:07:07.650
It's oscillating between minus one and one
[symbolically: oscillating in [-1,1]]. It's
0:07:07.650,0:07:11.669
not settling down to any number. It's not...
You cannot trap it near any particular number
0:07:11.669,0:07:17.280
because it's all over the map between minus
one and one. For the same reason that sin(1/x)
0:07:17.280,0:07:22.840
doesn't approach anything as x approaches
zero, the same reason sin x or sin(pi x) doesn't
0:07:22.840,0:07:29.840
approach anything as x approaches infinity.
So, the limit for the real thing, this does
0:07:31.099,0:07:37.539
not exist. So, this gives an example where
the real thing [the real-sense limit] doesn't
0:07:37.539,0:07:44.539
exist and the sequence thing [sequence limit]
does exist and so here is the overall summary.
0:07:44.690,0:07:46.979
If the real sense limit,
that is this one [pointing to definition of
0:07:46.979,0:07:51.039
real sense limit] exists, [then] the sequence
limit also exists and they're both equal.
0:07:51.039,0:07:54.419
On the other hand, you can have a situation
with the real sense limit, the limit for the
0:07:54.419,0:08:00.819
function of reals doesn't exist but the sequence
limit still exists like this set up. Right?
0:08:00.819,0:08:05.569
Now, there is a little caveat that I want
to add. If the real sense limit doesn't exist
0:08:05.569,0:08:11.069
as a finite number but it's say plus infinity
then the sequence limit also has to be plus
0:08:11.069,0:08:16.150
infinity. If the real sense limit is minus
infinity, then the sequence limit also has
0:08:16.150,0:08:20.330
to be minus infinity. So, this type of situation,
where the real sense limit doesn't exist but
0:08:20.330,0:08:26.840
the sequence exists, well, will happen in
kind of oscillatory type of situations. Where
0:08:26.840,0:08:31.409
the real sense you have an oscillating thing
and in the sequence thing on the other hand
0:08:31.409,0:08:36.330
you somehow manage to pick a bunch of points
where that oscillation doesn't create a problem.
0:08:36.330,0:08:36.789
Okay?
0:08:36.789,0:08:43.630
Now, why is this important? Well, it's important
because in a lot of cases when you have to
0:08:43.630,0:08:50.630
calculate limits of sequences, you just calculate
them by doing, essentially, just calculating
0:08:53.230,0:09:00.230
the limits of the function defining the sequence
as a limit of a real valued function. Okay?
0:09:00.230,0:09:03.460
So, for instance if I ask you what is limit
...
0:09:03.460,0:09:10.460
Okay. I'll ask you what is limit [as] n approaches
infinity of n^2(n + 1)/(n^3 + 1) or something
0:09:15.200,0:09:22.200
like that. Right? Some rational function.
You just do this calculation as if you were
0:09:25.430,0:09:29.720
just doing a limit of a real function, function
of real numbers, right? The answer you get
0:09:29.720,0:09:33.060
will be the correct one. If it's a finite
number it will be the same finite number.
0:09:33.060,0:09:37.850
In this case it will just be one. But any
rational function, if the answer is finite,
0:09:37.850,0:09:44.070
same answer for the sequence. If it is plus
infinity, same answer for the sequence. If
0:09:44.070,0:09:46.250
it is minus infinity, same answer as for the
sequence.
0:09:46.250,0:09:53.250
However, if the answer you get for the real-sense
limit is oscillatory type of non existence,
0:09:54.660,0:09:59.410
then that's inconclusive as far as the sequence
is concerned. You actually have to think about
0:09:59.410,0:10:05.520
the sequence case and figure out for yourself
what happens to the limit. Okay? If might
0:10:05.520,0:10:07.230
in
fact be the case that the sequence limit actually
0:10:07.230,0:10:11.380
does exist even though the real sense [limit]
is oscillatory. Okay.
Real-valued functions of multiple variables case
We consider the multiple input variables as a vector input variable, as the definition is easier to frame from this perspective.
The correct notion of neighborhood is as follows: for a point
, we define the neighborhood parametrized by a positive real number
as the open ball of radius
centered at
, i.e., the set of all points
such that the distance from
to
is less than
. This distance is the same as the norm of the difference vector
. The norm is sometimes denoted
. This open ball is sometimes denoted
.
Suppose
is a real-valued (i.e., scalar) function of a vector variable
. Suppose
is a point such that
is defined "around"
, except possibly at
. In other words, there is an open ball centered at
such that
is defined everywhere on that open ball, except possibly at
.
With these preliminaries out of the way, we can define the notion of limit. We say that:
if the following holds:
- For every

- there exists
such that
- for all
satisfying
(i.e.,
is in a ball of radius
centered at
but not the point
itself -- note that the
notation is for the norm, or length, of a vector)
- we have
. Note that
and
are both scalars, so the
here is the usual absolute value function.
{{#widget:YouTube|id=usb3jew_QVI}}