Limit: Difference between revisions

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{{perspectives}}
{{perspectives}}
 
{{core term}}
==Motivation==
==Motivation==


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This interpretation is sometimes termed the "two finger test" where one finger is used to follow the graph for <math>x</math> slightly less than <math>c</math> and the other finger is used to follow the graph for <math>x</math> slightly greater than <math>c</math>.
This interpretation is sometimes termed the "two finger test" where one finger is used to follow the graph for <math>x</math> slightly less than <math>c</math> and the other finger is used to follow the graph for <math>x</math> slightly greater than <math>c</math>.
The interpretation is problematic in that it is not really a definition, and fails to have computational utility for wildly oscillatory functions or functions with other forms of weird behavior.


===Two key ideas===
===Two key ideas===
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Epsilon-delta definition. That was just an intuitive idea,
epsilon-delta definition. This is just an intuitive idea,
and a few somewhat
and a few somewhat


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0:04:27.449,0:04:34.449
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graph. y is f(x). When x is to the initial
graph. y is f(x). When x is to the immediate
left of c, the value, y
left of c, the value, y


0:04:35.749,0:04:42.749
0:04:35.749,0:04:42.749
value, the y approach f(x) value is ... are
value, the y equals f(x) value is ... are
these values, so this or
these values, so this or


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concept of limit is usually a concept of two
concept of limit is usually a concept of two
sides of limit, which
sided limit, which


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0:06:28.259,0:06:33.419
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0:07:03.499,0:07:07.749
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sort of that. For the left-hand limit, you
sort of that: for the left-hand limit, you
basically sort of follow
basically sort of follow


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0:07:15.789,0:07:21.129
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the graph on the right and see where they're
the graph on the right and see where we're
headed to, and add the y
headed to, and get the y


0:07:21.129,0:07:22.240
0:07:21.129,0:07:22.240
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0:07:52.610,0:07:55.889
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values are different. You could also have
value is different. You could also have
a situation where the value
a situation where the value


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0:08:00.460,0:08:03.139
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the limits still exist because the left-hand
the limit still exists because the left-hand
limit and right-hand
limit and right-hand


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0:08:33.640,0:08:38.270
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fingers can meet each other, then the place
fingers can meet each other, then the place
where they meet, the Y
where they meet, the y


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0:08:38.270,0:08:41.870
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This, hopefully, you have seen in great detail
This, hopefully, you have seen in great detail
where you've done
when you've done


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0:08:59.819,0:09:05.779
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0:10:18.220,0:10:21.899
have to develop a pure cut concept of limit
have to develop a clear cut concept of limit
to be able to answer this
to be able to answer this


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0:10:52.660,0:10:55.139
0:10:52.660,0:10:55.139
doesn't [inaudible 00:10:36] we actually have
doesn't exist; we actually have
to try to make a picture
to try to make a picture


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0:10:55.139,0:10:57.660
of this and try to understand what the limit
of this and try to understand what the limit
is here.
is going to be.


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0:10:57.660,0:11:04.660
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this, this ... you're sort of getting close
this, this ... you're sort of getting close
to here but still not quite
to zero but still not quite


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0:14:21.579,0:14:28.579
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0:14:43.249,0:14:49.329
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One kind of logic is that the other limit
One kind of logic is that, yeah, the limit
is zero? Why? Well, it's
is zero? Why? Well, it's


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0:14:49.329,0:14:52.949
kind of balance around here. It's a bit above
kind of balanced around zero, right? It's a bit
and below, and it keeps
above and below, and it keeps


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0:14:52.949,0:14:59.949
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If you think of limit as something that's
If you think of limit as something it's
approaching, then as x
approaching, then as x


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oscillating with the minus 1 and 1. However,
oscillating within [-1,1]. However
smaller interval you
small an interval you


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0:15:50.300,0:15:54.540
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0:20:32.040,0:20:35.000
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behavior sort of at this time that point or
behavior, sort of at that point or
farther away than that
farther away than that


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other key idea here. Actually I did these
other key idea here. Actually I did these
in [inaudible 00:20:30].
in reverse order.


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0:20:46.660,0:20:52.060
That's how it is coming, actually, but I'll
That's how it was coming naturally, but I'll
just say it again.
just say it again.


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tracked near the point for the limit notion
trapped near the point for the limit notion
to be true. This type of
to be true. This type of


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we'll see Epsilon definition, we'll do a bit
we'll see the epsilon delta definition, we'll do a bit
of formalism to that, and
of formalism to that, and


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0:22:00.640,0:22:01.870
understanding.
understanding.</toggledisplay>
 
'''Checkpoint questions''':


</toggledisplay>
* To figure out the limit of a function at <math>2</math>, does the value of the function at <math>2.1</math> matter? Does the value of the function at <math>2.01</math> matter? <math>2.001</math>? How close is close enough?
* What is the limit <math>\lim_{x \to 0} \sin(1/x)</math>? What's the intuitive idea behind the reasoning? More formal versions of this reasoning will be introduced after we have seen the <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> definition.


==Definition for finite limit for function of one variable==
==Definition for finite limit for function of one variable==
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<math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>
<math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>


if the following holds (the single sentence is broken down into multiple points to make it clearer):
if the following holds:


* For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> (the symbol <math>\varepsilon</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon")
{{quotation|For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math>, we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math>.}}
* there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that (the symbol <math>\delta</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta")
 
* for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (explicitly, <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c, c+ \delta) = (c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math>),
The definition is broken down into its four clauses below:
* we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (explicitly, <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>).
 
{| class="sortable" border="1"
! Clause !! Interval description !! Symbol explanations
|-
| For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || <math>\varepsilon \in (0,\infty)</math> || The symbol <math>\varepsilon</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon".<br>Although the definition customarily uses the letter <math>\varepsilon</math>, it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
|-
| there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || <math>\delta \in (0,\infty)</math> || The symbol <math>\delta</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta"<br>Although the definition customarily uses the letter <math>\varepsilon</math>, it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
|-
| for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> || <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c, c+ \delta) = (c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math> || The symbol <math>| \ \  |</math> stands for the [[absolute value function]].<br><math>\in</math> stands for "is in the set" so the statements should be read as saying that <math>x</math> is in the set described in the two equivalent ways.<br><math>\cup</math> stands for the union, so the statement that <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c, c+ \delta)</math> should be parsed as saying that <math>x \in (c - \delta,c)</math> ''or'' <math>x \in (c, c + \delta)</math><br><math>\setminus</math> stands for set difference, so the statement <math>x \in (c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math> can be parsed as saying that <math>x</math> could be any value in <math>(c - \delta, c + \delta)</math> '''except''' <math>c</math>. The point <math>c</math> is excluded because we do not want the value of <math>f</math> at <math>c</math> to affect the limit notion.
|-
| we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> || <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> || The symbol <math>| \ \  |</math> stands for the [[absolute value function]].<br><math>\in</math> stands for "is in the set" so the statement should be read as saying that <math>f(x)</math> is in the set <math>(L - \varepsilon, L + \varepsilon)</math>.
|}


The '''limit''' (also called the '''two-sided limit''') <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x)</math> is defined as a value <math>L \in \R</math> such that <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>. By the [[uniqueness theorem for limits]], there is at most one value of <math>L \in \R</math> for which <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>. Hence, it makes sense to talk of ''the'' limit when it exists.
The '''limit''' (also called the '''two-sided limit''') <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x)</math> is defined as a value <math>L \in \R</math> such that <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>. By the [[uniqueness theorem for limits]], there is at most one value of <math>L \in \R</math> for which <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>. Hence, it makes sense to talk of ''the'' limit when it exists.
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L that's called the limit.</toggledisplay>
L that's called the limit.</toggledisplay>


''Note'': Although the definition customarily uses the letters <math>\varepsilon</math> and <math>\delta</math>, any other letters can be used, as long as these letters are different from each other and from the letters already in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
'''Checkpoint questions''':
 
* In order to make sense of <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> where must the function <math>f</math> be defined? Must <math>f</math> be defined ''at'' <math>c</math>? If <math>f(c)</math> exists, what can we say about its value?
* What's the formal definition of limit, i.e., what does <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> mean?
* How would you write the formal definition of limit using intervals rather than absolute value inequalities to describe where <math>x</math> and <math>f(x)</math> should be?
* Why is there a "<math>0 < </math>" in the inequality <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> in the <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> definition? Why doesn't a <math>0 < </math> appear in the <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> part of the definition?
* In order to be able to talk of ''the'' limit <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x)</math>, what additional fact do we need beyond the definition of what <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> means?


===Left hand limit===
===Left-hand limit===


Suppose <math>f</math> is a [[function]] of one variable and <math>c \in \R</math> is a point such that <math>f</math> is defined on the immediate left of <math>c</math> (note that <math>f</math> may or may not be defined at <math>c</math>). In other words, there exists some value <math>t  > 0</math> such that <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c-t,c)</math>.
Suppose <math>f</math> is a [[function]] of one variable and <math>c \in \R</math> is a point such that <math>f</math> is defined on the immediate left of <math>c</math> (note that <math>f</math> may or may not be defined at <math>c</math>). In other words, there exists some value <math>t  > 0</math> such that <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c-t,c)</math>.
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<math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math>
<math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math>


if the following holds (the single sentence is broken down into multiple points to make it clearer):
if the following holds:
 
{{quotation|For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < c - x < \delta</math>, we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math>.}}
 
The definition is broken down into its four clauses below:


* For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>
{| class="sortable" border="1"
* there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that
! Clause !! Interval description !! Symbol explanations
* for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < c - x < \delta</math> (explicitly, <math>x \in (c - \delta,c)</math>),
|-
* we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (explicitly, <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>.
| For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || <math>\varepsilon \in (0,\infty)</math> || The symbol <math>\varepsilon</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon".<br>Although the definition customarily uses the letter <math>\varepsilon</math>, it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
|-
| there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || <math>\delta \in (0,\infty)</math> || The symbol <math>\delta</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta"<br>Although the definition customarily uses the letter <math>\varepsilon</math>, it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
|-
| for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < c - x < \delta</math> || <math>x \in (c - \delta,c)</math> || The symbol <math>| \ \  |</math> stands for the [[absolute value function]].<br><math>\in</math> stands for "is in the set" so the statements should be read as saying that <math>x</math> is in the set <math>(c - \delta,c)</math> describing the immediate <math>\delta</math>-left of <math>c</math>.
|-
| we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> || <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> || The symbol <math>| \ \  |</math> stands for the [[absolute value function]].<br><math>\in</math> stands for "is in the set" so the statement should be read as saying that <math>f(x)</math> is in the set <math>(L - \varepsilon, L + \varepsilon)</math>.
|}


The '''left hand limit''' (acronym '''LHL''') <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x)</math> is defined as a value <math>L \in \R</math> such that <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math>. By the [[uniqueness theorem for limits]] (one-sided version), there is at most one value of <math>L \in \R</math> for which <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math>. Hence, it makes sense to talk of ''the'' left hand limit when it exists.
The '''left-hand limit''' (acronym '''LHL''') <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x)</math> is defined as a value <math>L \in \R</math> such that <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math>. By the [[uniqueness theorem for limits]] (one-sided version), there is at most one value of <math>L \in \R</math> for which <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math>. Hence, it makes sense to talk of ''the'' left hand limit when it exists.


===Right hand limit===
===Right-hand limit===


Suppose <math>f</math> is a [[function]] of one variable and <math>c \in \R</math> is a point such that <math>f</math> is defined on the immediate right of <math>c</math> (note that <math>f</math> may or may not be defined at <math>c</math>). In other words, there exists some value <math>t  > 0</math> such that <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c,c+t)</math>.
Suppose <math>f</math> is a [[function]] of one variable and <math>c \in \R</math> is a point such that <math>f</math> is defined on the immediate right of <math>c</math> (note that <math>f</math> may or may not be defined at <math>c</math>). In other words, there exists some value <math>t  > 0</math> such that <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c,c+t)</math>.
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<math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</math>
<math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</math>


if the following holds (the single sentence is broken down into multiple points to make it clearer):
if the following holds:
 
{{quotation|For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < x - c < \delta</math>, we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math>.}}
 
The definition is broken down into its four clauses below:
 
{| class="sortable" border="1"
! Clause !! Interval description !! Symbol explanations
|-
| For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || <math>\varepsilon \in (0,\infty)</math> || The symbol <math>\varepsilon</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon".<br>Although the definition customarily uses the letter <math>\varepsilon</math>, it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
|-
| there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || <math>\delta \in (0,\infty)</math> || The symbol <math>\delta</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta"<br>Although the definition customarily uses the letter <math>\varepsilon</math>, it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
|-
| for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < x - c < \delta</math> || <math>x \in (c,c + \delta)</math> || The symbol <math>| \ \  |</math> stands for the [[absolute value function]].<br><math>\in</math> stands for "is in the set" so the statements should be read as saying that <math>x</math> is in the set <math>(c,c + \delta)</math> describing the immediate <math>\delta</math>-right of <math>c</math>.
|-
| we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> || <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> || The symbol <math>| \ \  |</math> stands for the [[absolute value function]].<br><math>\in</math> stands for "is in the set" so the statement should be read as saying that <math>f(x)</math> is in the set <math>(L - \varepsilon, L + \varepsilon)</math>.
|}


* For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>
The '''right-hand limit''' (acronym '''RHL''') <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x)</math> is defined as a value <math>L \in \R</math> such that <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</math>. By the [[uniqueness theorem for limits]] (one-sided version), there is at most one value of <math>L \in \R</math> for which <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</matH>. Hence, it makes sense to talk of ''the'' right hand limit when it exists.
* there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that
 
* for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < x - c < \delta</math> (explicitly, <math>x \in (c,c + \delta)</math>),
===Side-by-side comparison of the definitions===
* we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (explicitly, <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>.


The '''right hand limit''' (acronym '''RHL''') <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x)</math> is defined as a value <math>L \in \R</math> such that <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</math>. By the [[uniqueness theorem for limits]] (one-sided version), there is at most one value of <math>L \in \R</math> for which <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</matH>. Hence, it makes sense to talk of ''the'' right hand limit when it exists.
{| class="sortable" border="1"
! Clause for two-sided limit <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> !! Clause for left hand limit <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math> !! Clause for right hand limit <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</math>!! Comments
|-
| For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || identical so far
|-
| there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || still identical
|-
| for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math>, i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math> || for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < c - x < \delta</math>, i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c)</math> || for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < x - c < \delta</math>, i.e., <math>x \in (c,c + \delta)</math> || this is the part that differs, in so far as it is the direction of domain approach that differs between the definitions.
|-
| we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math>, i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> || we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math>, i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> || we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math>, i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> || this part is again identical. Note that the left versus right is only about the direction of approach in the domain, not about the direction of approach of the function value.
|}


<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=qBjqc78KGx0}}</center>
<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=qBjqc78KGx0}}</center>
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0:11:07.000,0:11:09.000
0:11:07.000,0:11:09.000
Okay? [END!]</toggledisplay>
Okay? [END!]</toggledisplay>
'''Checkpoint questions''':
* In order to make sense of <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math>, where must the function <math>f</math> be defined? Must <math>f</math> be defined ''at'' <math>c</math>? If <math>f(c)</math> exists, what can we say about its value?
* The definitions of left hand limit, right hand limit and ordinary (two-sided) limit are pretty similar. There is only one clause that differs across the three definitions. What clause is this, and how does it differ across the definitions? Explain both in inequality notation and in interval notation.
* Why should we be careful when dealing with one-sided limits in the context of function compositions?


===Relation between the limit notions===
===Relation between the limit notions===


The two-sided limit exists if and only if (both the left hand limit and right hand limit exist and they are equal to each other).
The two-sided limit exists if and only if (both the left hand limit and right hand limit exist) '''and''' (they are equal to each other).
 
Explicitly, <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x)</math> exists if '''all three''' of these conditions hold:
 
* <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x)</math> exists.
* <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x)</math> exists.
* <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = \lim_{x \to c^+} f(x)</math>.
 
Moreover, in the event that both one-sided limits exist and are equal, the two-sided limit is equal to both of them.
 
Further, a particular value of <math>\delta > 0</math> works for a particular value of <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> in the two-sided limit definition if and only if it works in both the left hand limit definition and the right hand limit definition.


==Definition of finite limit for function of one variable in terms of a game==
==Definition of finite limit for function of one variable in terms of a game==
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<math>\!\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>
<math>\!\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>


Note that there is one trivial sense in which the above statement can be false, or rather, meaningless, namely, that <math>f</math> is not defined on the immediate left or immediate right of <math>c</math>. In that case, the limit statement above is false, but moreover, it is meaningless to even consider the notion of limit.
Note that there is one trivial sense in which the above statement can be false, or rather, meaningless, namely, that <math>f</math> is not defined on the immediate left or immediate right of <math>c</math>. In that case, the limit statement above is false, but moreover, it is meaningless to even consider the notion of limit. We therefore omit this sense from consideration and consider instead only the situation where <math>f</math> is defined on the immediate left and immediate right of <math>c</math>.


The game is between two players, a '''Prover''' whose goal is to prove that the limit statement is true, and a '''Skeptic''' (also called a '''Verifier''' or sometimes a '''Disprover''') whose goal is to show that the statement is false. The game has three moves:
The game is between two players, a '''Prover''' whose goal is to prove that the limit statement is true, and a '''Skeptic''' (also called a '''Verifier''' or sometimes a '''Disprover''') whose goal is to show that the statement is false. The game has three moves:


# First, the skeptic chooses <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, or equivalently, chooses the target interval <math>(L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>.
# First, the skeptic chooses <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, or equivalently, chooses the target interval <math>(L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> in which the skeptic is challenging the prover to ''trap'' the function.
# Then, the prover chooses <math>\delta > 0</math>, or equivalently, chooses the interval <math>(c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math>.
# Then, the prover chooses <math>\delta > 0</math>, or equivalently, chooses the interval <math>(c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math>.
# Then, the skeptic chooses a value <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math>, or equivalently, <math>x \in (c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math>, which is the same as <math>(c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>.
# Then, the skeptic chooses a value <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math>, or equivalently, <math>x \in (c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math>, which is the same as <math>(c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>.


Now, if <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>), the prover wins. Otherwise, the skeptic wins (see the subtlety about the domain of definition issue below the picture).
Now, if <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>), the prover wins. Otherwise, the skeptic wins.


We say that the limit statement
We say that the limit statement
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<math>\!\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>
<math>\!\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>


is '''true''' if the prover has a winning strategy for this game. The ''winning strategy'' for the prover basically constitutes a strategy to choose an appropriate <math>\delta</math> in terms of the <matH>\varepsilon</math> chosen by the skeptic. Thus, it is an expression of <math>\delta</math> as a function of <math>\varepsilon</math>.
is '''true''' if the prover has a '''winning strategy''' for this game. The ''winning strategy'' for the prover basically constitutes a strategy to choose an appropriate <math>\delta</math> in terms of the <math>\varepsilon</math> chosen by the skeptic. Thus, it is an expression of <math>\delta</math> as a function of <math>\varepsilon</math>. Verbally, the goal of the prover is to choose a value of <math>\delta</math> so that when the input is restricted to being within <math>\delta</math> distance of <math>c</math>, the output is '''trapped''' to within <math>\varepsilon</math> distance of the claimed limit <math>L</math>.


We say that the limit statement
We say that the limit statement
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is '''false''' if the skeptic has a winning strategy for this game. The '''winning strategy''' for the skeptic involves a choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>, ''and'' a strategy that chooses a value of <math>x</math> (constrained in the specified interval) based on the prover's choice of <math>\delta</math>.
is '''false''' if the skeptic has a winning strategy for this game. The '''winning strategy''' for the skeptic involves a choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>, ''and'' a strategy that chooses a value of <math>x</math> (constrained in the specified interval) based on the prover's choice of <math>\delta</math>.


[[File:Epsilondeltagamepicture.png|1000px]]
Let's review the definition in conjunction with the game along with a deeper semantic understanding of the steps:
 
 
'''Slight subtlety regarding domain of definition''': The domain of definition issue leads to a couple of minor subtleties:
{| class="sortable" border="1"
! Step no. !! Clause of definition !! Who moves? !! What is chosen? !! Constraints on the choice !! Comment
|-
| 1 || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || Skeptic || <math>\varepsilon</math> || Must be positive || The "for every" corresponds to the idea that the move is made by the side that does ''not'' have a winning strategy, because we want to argue that the side that ''does'' have a winning strategy can win ''no matter what''.
|-
| 2 || there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || Prover || <math>\delta</math> || Must be positive || The "there exists" corresponds to the idea that the move is made by the side that has a winning strategy, because that side gets to choose a favorable value of the variable (in this case <math>\delta</math>).
|-
| 3 || for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math>, || Skeptic || <math>x</math> || Must be within the interval <math>(c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math> || The "for all" corresponds to the idea that the move is made by the side that does ''not'' have a winning strategy, because we want to argue that the side that ''does'' have a winning strategy can win ''no matter what''.
|-
| 4 || we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> || Neither; it's time for the judge to decide || -- || If <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> (the condition that we desire) the prover wins. Else, the skeptic wins. ||
|}
 
[[File:Epsilondeltagamepicture.png|1000px]]
 
'''Slight subtlety regarding domain of definition''': <toggledisplay>The domain of definition issue leads to a couple of minor subtleties:


* A priori, it is possible that the <math>x</math> chosen by the skeptic is outside the domain of <math>f</math>, so it does not make sense to evaluate <math>f(x)</math>. In the definition given above, this would lead to the game being won by the skeptic. In particular, if <math>f</math> is not defined on the immediate left or right of <math>c</math>, the skeptic can always win by picking <math>x</math> outside the domain.
* A priori, it is possible that the <math>x</math> chosen by the skeptic is outside the domain of <math>f</math>, so it does not make sense to evaluate <math>f(x)</math>. In the definition given above, this would lead to the game being won by the skeptic. In particular, if <math>f</math> is not defined on the immediate left or right of <math>c</math>, the skeptic can always win by picking <math>x</math> outside the domain.
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** We could require (as part of the game rules) that the prover pick <math>\delta</math> such that <math>(c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \} \subseteq \operatorname{dom} f</math>. This pre-empts the problem of picking <math>x</math>-values outside the domain.
** We could require (as part of the game rules) that the prover pick <math>\delta</math> such that <math>(c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \} \subseteq \operatorname{dom} f</math>. This pre-empts the problem of picking <math>x</math>-values outside the domain.
** We could require (as part of the game rules) that the skeptic pick <math>x</math> ''in'' the domain, i.e., pick <math>x</math> with <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> and <math>x \in \operatorname{dom} f</math>.
** We could require (as part of the game rules) that the skeptic pick <math>x</math> ''in'' the domain, i.e., pick <math>x</math> with <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> and <math>x \in \operatorname{dom} f</math>.
** We could alter the rule so that if the skeptic picks <math>x</math> outside the domain, the prover wins (instead of the skeptic winning).
** We could alter the rule so that if the skeptic picks <math>x</math> outside the domain, the prover wins (instead of the skeptic winning).</toggledisplay>


<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=Kh253PUghFk}}</center>
<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=Kh253PUghFk}}</center>
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I explain the mathematical symbols.</toggledisplay>
I explain the mathematical symbols.</toggledisplay>


===Negation of limit statement and non-existence of limit===
We now consider the explicit description of the definition for the case that the skeptic has a winning strategy for the limit game for <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>, i.e., for the limit statement being false.
In words, the definition is:
{{quotation|There exists <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> such that for every <math>\delta > 0</math>, there exists <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0  < |x - c| < \delta</math> and <math>|f(x) - L| \ge \varepsilon</math>.}}
Let's review the definition in conjunction with the game along with a deeper semantic understanding of the steps:
{| class="sortable" border="1"
! Step no. !! Clause of definition for original limit statement (i.e., prover has a winning strategy) !! Clause of definition for skeptic having a winning strategy !! Who moves? !! What is chosen? !! Constraints on the choice !! Comment
|-
| 1 || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || There exists <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> such that || Skeptic || <math>\varepsilon</math> || Must be positive || Whether we use "for every" or "there exists" depends on who we're rooting for.
|-
| 2 || there exists <math>\delta > 0</matH> such that || for every <math>\delta > 0</math>, || Prover || <math>\delta</math> || Must be positive || Whether we use "for every" or "there exists" depends on who we're rooting for.
|-
| 3 || for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math>, || there exists <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> and || Skeptic || <math>x</math> || Must be within the interval <math>(c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math> || Whether we use "for every" or "there exists" depends on who we're rooting for.
|-
| 4 || we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> || <math>|f(x) - L| \ge \varepsilon</math>. || Neither; it's time for the judge to decide || -- || If <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>, the prover wins. Else, the skeptic wins. || The conditions are negatives of one another.
|}
<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=N0U8Y11nlPk}}</center>
<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=N0U8Y11nlPk}}</center>


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# <math>f</math> is not ''defined'' around <math>c</math>, i.e., there is no <math>t > 0</math> for which <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c - t, c + t) \setminus \{ c \}</math>. In this case, it does not even make sense to try taking a limit.
# <math>f</math> is not ''defined'' around <math>c</math>, i.e., there is no <math>t > 0</math> for which <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c - t, c + t) \setminus \{ c \}</math>. In this case, it does not even make sense to try taking a limit.
# <math>f</math> is defined around <math>c</math>, around <math>c</math>, i.e., there is <math>t > 0</math> for which <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c - t, c + t) \setminus \{ c \}</math>. So, it does make sense to try taking a limit. However, the limit still does not exist.
# <math>f</math> is defined around <math>c</math>, except possibly at <math>c</math>, i.e., there is <math>t > 0</math> for which <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c - t, c + t) \setminus \{ c \}</math>. So, it does make sense to try taking a limit. However, the limit still does not exist.


The formulation of the latter case is as follows:
The formulation of the latter case is as follows:
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does not exist. The skeptic's winning strategy is as follows: regardless of the <math>L</math> chosen by the prover, pick a fixed <math>\varepsilon < 1</math> (independent of <math>L</math>, so <math>\varepsilon</math> can be decided in advance of the game -- note that the skeptic could even pick <math>\varepsilon = 1</math> and the strategy would still work). After the prover has chosen a value <math>\delta</math>, find a value <math>x \in (0 - \delta,0 + \delta) \setminus \{ 0 \}</math> such that the <math>\sin(1/x)</math> function value lies outside <math>(L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>. This is possible because the interval <math>(L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> has width <math>2 \varepsilon</math>, hence cannot cover the entire interval <math>[-1,1]</math>, which has width 2. However, the range of the <math>\sin(1/x)</math> function on <math>(0 - \delta,0 + \delta) \setminus \{ 0 \}</math> is all of <math>[-1,1]</math>.
does not exist. The skeptic's winning strategy is as follows: regardless of the <math>L</math> chosen by the prover, pick a fixed <math>\varepsilon < 1</math> (independent of <math>L</math>, so <math>\varepsilon</math> can be decided in advance of the game -- note that the skeptic could even pick <math>\varepsilon = 1</math> and the strategy would still work). After the prover has chosen a value <math>\delta</math>, find a value <math>x \in (0 - \delta,0 + \delta) \setminus \{ 0 \}</math> such that the <math>\sin(1/x)</math> function value lies outside <math>(L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>. This is possible because the interval <math>(L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> has width <math>2 \varepsilon</math>, hence cannot cover the entire interval <math>[-1,1]</math>, which has width 2. However, the range of the <math>\sin(1/x)</math> function on <math>(0 - \delta,0 + \delta) \setminus \{ 0 \}</math> is all of <math>[-1,1]</math>.
{{quotation|Crucially, the inability of the prover to trap the function value close to any point as <math>x \to 0</math> is the reason the limit fails to exist.}}


[[File:Sin1byxlimitat0.png|800px]]
[[File:Sin1byxlimitat0.png|800px]]
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Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay>
Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay>
0:00:15.500,0:00:19.140
0:00:31.170,0:00:38.170
Vipul: Okay. This talk is going to be about
Vipul: Ok, so this talk is going to be about
certain misconceptions
why under certain circumstances limits don't exist


0:00:19.140,0:00:22.440
0:00:39.800,0:00:46.800
that people have regarding limits and these
We are going to take this example of a function
are misconceptions that
which is defined like this: sin of one over x


0:00:22.440,0:00:25.840
0:00:47.699,0:00:51.360
people generally acquire after...
Obviously, that definition doesn't work
when x equals zero.


0:00:25.840,0:00:29.180
0:00:51.360,0:00:57.260
These are not the misconceptions that
So this is a function defined only for all non-zero
people have before studying limits,
reals.


0:00:29.180,0:00:32.730
0:00:57.260,0:01:01.050
these are misconceptions you might have after
The goal is to figure out what the limit as
studying limits,
x approaches 0 of f(x) is.


0:00:32.730,0:00:35.059
0:01:01.050,0:01:06.630
after studying the epsilon delta definition.
Here is a graph of the function. This is a
y axis, and x axis.


0:00:35.059,0:00:38.550
0:01:06.630,0:01:08.490
I'm going to describe these misconceptions
The function looks like this.
in terms of the limit game,


0:00:38.550,0:00:41.900
0:01:08.490,0:01:10.680
the prover skeptic game of the limit. Though
It is oscillatory.
the misconceptions


0:00:41.900,0:00:45.850
0:01:10.680,0:01:16.270
themselves can be, sort of, don't depend
As you approach zero it oscillates more, faster
on the understanding of the
and faster.


0:00:45.850,0:00:49.059
0:01:16.270,0:01:19.070
game but to understand exactly what's
What are the upper and lower limits of oscillation?
happening, it's better to think
 
0:01:19.070,0:01:25.580
Actually all these things should be the same
height.


0:00:49.059,0:00:51.010
0:01:25.580,0:01:29.760
of it in terms of the game.
My drawing wasn't good, but, it should all
be the same height, above and below.


0:00:51.010,0:00:55.370
0:01:29.760,0:01:31.290
First recall the definition. So limit as x
What are these upper and lower limits? [ANSWER!]
approaches c of f(x) is a


0:00:55.370,0:01:01.629
0:01:31.290,0:01:32.790
number L; so c and L are both numbers, real
Rui: 1 and -1.
numbers. f is a function,


0:01:01.629,0:01:06.380
0:01:32.790,0:01:39.790
x is approaching c. And we said this is true
Vipul: So the lower limit is negative one
if the following -- for
and the upper limit is one. Ok, good.


0:01:06.380,0:01:10.180
0:01:39.829,0:01:46.829
every epsilon greater than zero, there exists
So what does it mean, what is the limit at
a delta greater than
zero for this function? [ANSWER!]


0:01:10.180,0:01:14.800
0:01:46.850,0:01:53.850
zero such that for all x which are given delta
This is where...you need to really think, so
distance of c, f(x) is
I might say ok the limit is, looks like it's zero.


0:01:14.800,0:01:17.590
0:01:58.259,0:01:58.509
within epsilon distance of L. Okay?


0:01:17.590,0:01:24.590
0:01:58.469,0:02:04.749
Now, how do we describe this in terms for
At zero, you say that looks neat, that looks
limit game?
right because you see when the x value approaches,


0:01:26.530,0:01:33.530
0:02:04.749,0:02:09.190
KM: So, skeptic starts off with the first
comes close to zero, the f(x) value also comes
part of the definition.
close to zero.


0:01:34.990,0:01:38.189
0:02:09.190,0:02:12.700
Vipul: By picking the epsilon? Okay, that's
It keeps oscillating between -1and 1,
the thing written in
and it keeps coming.


0:01:38.189,0:01:42.939
0:02:12.700,0:02:19.700
black. What's the skeptic trying to do? What's the
I draw a very small ball around zero, like
goal of the skeptic?
that.


0:01:42.939,0:01:49.100
0:02:19.780,0:02:22.700
KM: To try and pick an epsilon that would
The function is going to keep entering this
not work.
ball.


0:01:49.100,0:01:53.450
0:02:22.700,0:02:27.060
Vipul: So the goal of the skeptic is to try
A ball or a square one or whatever.
to show that the statement is false.


0:01:53.450,0:01:54.100
0:02:27.060,0:02:34.060
KM: Yeah.
A very small neighborhood of this origin point
here in this two-dimensional picture.


0:01:54.100,0:01:57.790
0:02:35.230,0:02:40.459
Vipul: Right? In this case the skeptic should
The function graph is going to enter that
try to start by choosing
repeatedly.


0:01:57.790,0:02:02.220
0:02:40.459,0:02:42.010
an epsilon that is really -- the goal of
Do you think the limit is zero? [ANSWER!]
the skeptic is to pick an


0:02:02.220,0:02:04.500
0:02:42.010,0:02:42.830
epsilon that's really small, what is the
Rui: No.
skeptic trying to challenge


0:02:04.500,0:02:07.920
0:02:42.830,0:02:46.860
the prover into doing by picking the epsilon?
Vipul: No? Why not? Isn't it coming really
The skeptic is trying to
close to zero?


0:02:07.920,0:02:11.959
0:02:46.860,0:02:47.430
challenge the prover into trapping the function
Rui: Sometimes.
close to L when x is


0:02:11.959,0:02:17.040
0:02:47.430,0:02:49.140
close to c. And the skeptic specifies what
Vipul: What do you mean "sometimes?"
is meant by "close to L" is


0:02:17.040,0:02:19.860
0:02:49.140,0:02:56.140
by the choice of epsilon. Okay?
Rui: It means sometimes it is real close to
zero and then it flies away.


0:02:19.860,0:02:24.900
0:02:56.870,0:03:03.870
When picking epsilon the skeptic is  
Vipul: Ok, "flies away." [Hmm] So what's
effectively picking this interval, L -
your objection? What is not happening?


0:02:24.900,0:02:30.700
0:03:04.019,0:03:06.010
epsilon, L + epsilon). Okay? And basically
Rui: We can not trap.
that's what the skeptic is


0:02:30.700,0:02:33.680
0:03:06.010,0:03:07.239
doing. The prover is then picking a delta.
Vipul: We cannot trap...
What is the goal of the


0:02:33.680,0:02:36.239
0:03:07.239,0:03:11.909
prover in picking the delta? The prover is
Rui: ...trap it in a neighborhood of zero.
saying, "Here's how I can


0:02:36.239,0:02:40.099
0:03:11.909,0:03:18.480
trap the function within that interval. I'm
Vipul: Function not trapped.
going to pick a delta and


0:02:40.099,0:02:43.520
0:03:18.480,0:03:20.110
my claim is that if the x value within delta distance of c, except the
What should the limit be if it is not zero?


0:02:43.520,0:02:47.000
0:03:20.110,0:03:24.849
point c itself, so my claim is for any x value
Should it be half, two-thirds, what should
there the function is
the limit be? [ANSWER!]


0:02:47.000,0:02:48.260
0:03:24.849,0:03:31.849
trapped in here."
(I'll explain this later), what do you think
the limit should be?


0:02:48.260,0:02:52.819
0:03:34.659,0:03:36.730
So, the prover picks the delta and then the
Rui: It doesn't have a limit.
skeptic tries to meet the


0:02:52.819,0:02:56.709
0:03:36.730,0:03:38.299
prover's claim or rather, test the prover's
Vipul: It doesn't have a limit.
claim by picking an x


0:02:56.709,0:02:59.670
0:03:38.299,0:03:39.790
which is within the interval specified by
Ok, so what does that mean?
the prover and then they


0:02:59.670,0:03:03.379
0:03:39.790,0:03:45.290
both check whether f(x) is within epsilon
Whatever limit you claim the function has
distance [of L]. If it is
you are wrong...If you claim the function had


0:03:03.379,0:03:07.940
0:03:45.290,0:03:49.170
then the prover wins and if it is not, if
any numerical limit, if you claim if it is half you
this [|f(x) - L|]is not less
are wrong.


0:03:07.940,0:03:09.989
0:03:49.170,0:03:50.640
than epsilon then the skeptic wins. Okay?
If you claim minus half you are wrong.


0:03:09.989,0:03:13.659
0:03:50.640,0:03:52.720
So, the skeptic is picking the neighborhood
If you claim the limit is 50, you are wrong.
of the target point which


0:03:13.659,0:03:17.030
0:03:52.720,0:03:54.959
in this case is just the open interval of
Whatever claim you make about the limit,
radius epsilon, the prover
you are wrong.


0:03:17.030,0:03:21.940
0:03:54.959,0:04:00.780
is picking the delta which is effectively the
So let's try to think of this in terms of the
neighborhood of the domain
game between a prover and a skeptic.


0:03:21.940,0:03:25.760
0:04:00.780,0:04:02.730
point except the point c as I've said open
(You should go and review that video
interval (c - delta, c +


0:03:25.760,0:03:30.870
0:04:02.730,0:04:09.730
delta) excluding c and then the skeptic picks
or read the corresponding material to understand
an x in the neighborhood
what I am going to say.)


0:03:30.870,0:03:35.700
0:04:09.829,0:04:13.969
specified by prover and if the function value
It's good if you have also seen the video
is within the interval
on the definition of limit statement being


0:03:35.700,0:03:38.830
0:04:13.969,0:04:17.709
specified by the skeptic then the prover wins.
false, which builds on that.


0:03:38.830,0:03:41.989
0:04:17.709,0:04:21.620
Now, what does it mean to say the statement
What I am now asking you, what does it mean
is true in terms of the
to say the limit does not exist?


0:03:41.989,0:03:43.080
0:04:21.620,0:04:23.980
game?
As x approaches c [limit] of f(x) does not exist.


0:03:43.080,0:03:50.080
0:04:23.980,0:04:27.810
KM: So, it means that the prover is always
Here c is zero, but that is not relevant...
going to win the game.
that is not necessary for the definition.


0:03:51.849,0:03:55.629
0:04:27.810,0:04:32.910
Vipul: Well, sort of. I mean the prover may
Well it is the usual way we say that the
play it stupidly. The
limit statement is false except we need to


0:03:55.629,0:04:00.750
0:04:32.910,0:04:37.170
prover can win the game if the prover plays
add one step in the beginning, which is for
well. So, the prover has a
every L in R [the reals].


0:04:00.750,0:04:03.230
0:04:37.170,0:04:42.460
winning strategy for the game. Okay?
It says that for every L in R [the reals] the statement
limit x approaches c, f(x) equals L, is false.


0:04:05.230,0:04:10.299
0:04:42.460,0:04:43.900
The statement is true if the prover has a
So how does it read?
winning strategy for [the
 
0:04:43.900,0:04:48.220
It says, for every L in R [the reals] there exists epsilon
greater than zero such that for every delta


0:04:10.299,0:04:14.090
0:04:48.220,0:04:55.030
game] and that means the prover has a way
greater than zero there exists x, within the
of playing the game such that
delta neighborhood of c such that f(x) is


0:04:14.090,0:04:17.320
0:04:55.030,0:04:58.590
whatever the skeptic does the prover is going
not in the epsilon neighborhood of L.
to win the game. The


0:04:17.320,0:04:20.789
0:04:58.590,0:05:05.590
statement is considered false if the skeptic
How would you interpret this in terms of a
has a winning strategy
game between a prover and a skeptic?[ANSWER, THINKING ALONG!]


0:04:20.789,0:04:23.370
0:05:06.470,0:05:11.570
for the game which means the skeptic has a
Rui: For every limit the prover proposes...
way of playing so that


0:04:23.370,0:04:25.729
0:05:11.570,0:05:16.420
whatever the prover does the skeptic can win
Vipul: This is not quite the same as the limit
the game.
game which you may have seen in a previous


0:04:25.729,0:04:27.599
0:05:16.420,0:05:21.170
Or if the game doesn't make sense at all
video which was assuming that the limit was
...
already given as a part of the game.


0:04:27.599,0:04:29.460
0:05:21.170,0:05:28.170
maybe the function is not defined on
This is sort of a somewhat more general game or
a more meta game where part of the game


0:04:29.460,0:04:31.050
0:05:28.420,0:05:31.950
the immediate left and right of c.
is also the prover trying to specify what
the limit should be.


0:04:31.050,0:04:32.370
0:05:31.950,0:05:37.100
If the function isn't defined then we
The first step the prover plays, the prover
is in black, skeptic is in red.


0:04:32.370,0:04:34.160
0:05:37.100,0:05:43.290
cannot even make sense of the statement.
The first step the prover plays, proposes
a value of the limit. Then?


0:04:34.160,0:04:36.990
0:05:43.290,0:05:47.280
Either way -- the skeptic has a winning strategy
Rui: The skeptic chooses an epsilon.


0:04:36.990,0:04:37.770
0:05:47.280,0:05:50.020
or the game doesn't make sense --
Vipul: What's the goal of the skeptic in choosing
the epsilon?


0:04:41.770,0:04:43.470
0:05:50.020,0:05:56.740
then the statement is false.
The goal of the skeptic is.. so let's say
the prover chose a limit value L here, that's


0:04:43.470,0:04:47.660
0:05:56.740,0:05:58.470
If the prover has a winning strategy
numerical value L here.
the statement is true.


0:04:47.660,0:04:54.660
0:05:58.470,0:06:00.050
With this background in mind let's look
The skeptic picks epsilon.
at some common misconceptions.


0:04:56.540,0:05:03.540
0:06:00.050,0:06:06.650
Okay. Let's say we are trying to prove that
The skeptic will pick epsilon, which means
the limit as x approaches
the skeptic is picking this band from L minus


0:05:27.620,0:05:31.530
0:06:06.650,0:06:12.400
2 of x^2 is 4, so is that statement correct?
epsilon to L plus epsilon.
The statement we're
 
0:06:12.400,0:06:14.270
Now what does the prover try to do?


0:05:31.530,0:05:32.060
0:06:14.270,0:06:19.000
trying to prove?
The prover tries to pick a delta. What is
the prover trying to do?


0:05:32.060,0:05:32.680
0:06:19.000,0:06:24.490
KM: Yes.
Find a neighborhood of c, such that the
function in that neighborhood of c the function


0:05:32.680,0:05:35.960
0:06:24.490,0:06:28.370
Vipul: That's correct. Because in fact x^2
is trapped within epsilon of L.
is a continuous function


0:05:35.960,0:05:40.160
0:06:28.370,0:06:32.740
and the limit of a continuous function at
So in our case, c is zero in this example,
the point is just the
so the prover will be trying to pick a neighborhood


0:05:40.160,0:05:43.030
0:06:32.740,0:06:39.740
value at the point and 2^2 is 4. But we're
of zero, is something like... zero plus delta
going to now try to prove
on the right and zero minus delta on the left.


0:05:43.030,0:05:48.530
0:06:44.620,0:06:45.750
this formally using the epsilon-delta definition
What's the goal of the prover?
of limit, okay? Now


0:05:48.530,0:05:51.229
0:06:45.750,0:06:50.840
in terms of the epsilon-delta definition or
To say that whenever x is in this interval,
rather in terms of this
for all x,


0:05:51.229,0:05:55.160
0:06:50.840,0:06:53.500
game setup, what we need to do is we need
The prover is trying to say that all for x
to describe a winning
in here, the function [difference from L] is less than epsilon.


0:05:55.160,0:06:01.460
0:06:53.500,0:06:56.170
strategy for the prover. Okay? We need to
The skeptic who is trying to disprove that.
describe delta in terms of


0:06:01.460,0:06:05.240
0:06:56.170,0:06:59.060
epsilon. The prover essentially ... the only
What does the skeptic need to do?
move the prover makes is


0:06:05.240,0:06:09.130
0:06:59.060,0:07:03.900
this choice of delta. Right? The skeptic picked
Rui: Every time the prover finds an x.
epsilon, the prover


0:06:09.130,0:06:12.810
0:07:03.900,0:07:07.540
picked delta then the skeptic picks x and
Vipul: Well the prover finds, picks the delta,
then they judge who won. The
what does the skeptic try to do?


0:06:12.810,0:06:15.810
0:07:07.540,0:07:08.480
only choice the prover makes is the choice
Rui: Just pick an x.
of delta, right?


0:06:15.810,0:06:16.979
0:07:08.480,0:07:10.550
KM: Exactly.
Vipul: Picks an x such that the function...


0:06:16.979,0:06:20.080
0:07:10.550,0:07:12.140
Vipul: The prover chooses the delta in terms
Rui: Is out of the...
of epsilon.


0:06:20.080,0:06:24.819
0:07:12.140,0:07:13.960
So, here is my strategy. My strategy is I'm
Vipul: Is outside that thing.
going to choose delta as,
 
0:07:13.960,0:07:24.960
Let me make this part a little bit more...so
here you have... the same colors.


0:06:24.819,0:06:29.509
0:07:25.150,0:07:41.150
I as a prover is going to choose delta as
This is
epsilon over the absolute
the axis...The skeptic...The prover has picked
this point and the skeptic has picked epsilon.


0:06:29.509,0:06:33.690
0:07:41.780,0:07:46.670
value of x plus 2 [|x + 2|]. Okay?
So this is L plus epsilon, L minus epsilon.


0:06:33.690,0:06:36.880
0:07:46.670,0:07:50.460
Now, what I want to show that this strategy
The prover is now, it so happens that c is
works. So, what I'm aiming
zero here.


0:06:36.880,0:06:39.840
0:07:50.460,0:07:56.690
is that if ... so let me just finish this
So that everything is happening near the y
and then you can tell me where
axis.


0:06:39.840,0:06:43.419
0:07:56.690,0:08:03.690
I went wrong here, okay? I'm claiming that
Now, the prover wants to pick a delta, the
this strategy works which
prover wants to pick, like this, should be


0:06:43.419,0:06:47.130
0:08:07.320,0:08:07.910
means I'm claiming that if the skeptic now
the same.
picks any x which is within


0:06:47.130,0:06:54.130
0:08:07.910,0:08:14.910
delta distance of 2; the target point,
So this is c plus delta which c is zero, so
zero plus delta and zero minus delta.


0:06:56.710,0:07:01.490
0:08:17.810,0:08:21.960
then the function value is within epsilon
Now, under what conditions...What happens
distance of 4, the claimed
next?


0:07:01.490,0:07:04.080
0:08:21.960,0:08:28.240
limit. That's what I want to show.
The prover is implicitly trying to claim that
the function, when the x value is close here,


0:07:04.080,0:07:08.300
0:08:28.240,0:08:30.520
Now is that true? Well, here's how I do
the function value is trapped here.
it. I think, I started by


0:07:08.300,0:07:13.539
0:08:30.520,0:08:35.089
picking this expression, I factored it as
What the skeptic wants to show is that, that's
|x - 2||x + 2|. The absolute
not true.


0:07:13.539,0:07:16.810
0:08:35.089,0:08:39.830
value of product is the product of the absolute
If it isn't true, in order to do that, the
values so this can be
skeptic should pick a value of x.


0:07:16.810,0:07:21.599
0:08:39.830,0:08:46.830
split like that. Now I see, while we know
So the skeptic needs to pick a value of x
that |x - 2| is less than
somewhere in this interval such that at that


0:07:21.599,0:07:24.979
0:08:48.110,0:08:55.110
delta and this is a positive thing. So we
value of f(x)...let me just make the x axis...so
can either less than delta
the skeptic wants to pick a value of x, maybe


0:07:24.979,0:07:31.979
0:08:59.209,0:09:06.209
times absolute value x plus 2. Right? And
its somewhere here, such that when you evaluate
this delta is epsilon over
the function at x it lies outside.


0:07:35.599,0:07:37.620
0:09:07.269,0:09:11.720
|x + 2| and we get epsilon.
If when you evaluate the function at x, and it lies
outside this strip then the skeptic wins and


0:07:37.620,0:07:40.460
0:09:11.720,0:09:16.290
So, this thing equals something, less than
if the value of the function of x is inside
something, equals
the strip then the prover wins.
 
0:09:16.290,0:09:23.290
Now looking back at this function, the question
is, can the prover pick an L such that regardless,


0:07:40.460,0:07:43.580
0:09:25.209,0:09:31.779
something, equals something, you have a chain
so can the prover pick a value of L such that...Is
of things, there's one
this whole thing coming?


0:07:43.580,0:07:47.720
0:09:31.779,0:09:37.860
step that you have less than. So overall we
Such that regardless of the epsilon that the
get that this expression,
skeptic picks, there exists a delta such that


0:07:47.720,0:07:53.740
0:09:37.860,0:09:44.439
this thing is less than epsilon. So, we have
for all x the function is trapped? Or is it
shown that whatever x the
instead true that the skeptic will win? (i.e.) Is


0:07:53.740,0:08:00.370
0:09:44.439,0:09:50.579
skeptic would pick, the function value lies
it true that whatever L the prover picks there
within the epsilon
exists an epsilon, since the skeptic picks


0:08:00.370,0:08:05.030
0:09:50.579,0:09:57.360
distance of the claimed limit. Whatever the
an epsilon, such that whatever delta the prover
skeptic picks (x within the
picks the function in not in fact, trapped


0:08:05.030,0:08:09.240
0:09:57.360,0:10:00.399
delta distance of the target point).
here. What do you think looking at the picture
here?


0:08:09.240,0:08:16.240
0:10:00.399,0:10:05.329
Does this strategy work? Is this a proof?
Can you trap the function in a rectangle
What's wrong with this?
like this? [ANSWER!]


0:08:24.270,0:08:31.270
0:10:05.329,0:10:06.100
Do you think there's anything wrong
Rui: No.
with the algebra down here?


0:08:33.510,0:08:40.510
0:10:06.100,0:10:09.930
KM: Well, we said that ...
Vipul: Well, not if it is a very small rectangle.


0:08:40.910,0:08:47.910
0:10:09.930,0:10:16.930
Vipul: So, is there anything wrong in the
What should the skeptic's strategy be?
algebra here? This is this,


0:08:50.160,0:08:51.740
0:10:17.060,0:10:23.930
this is less than delta, delta ... So, this
The claim is that the limit does not exist,
part
that is the claim.


0:08:51.740,0:08:52.089
0:10:23.930,0:10:25.990
seems fine, right?
The claim is that this limit doesn't exist.


0:08:52.089,0:08:52.339
0:10:25.990,0:10:29.750
KM: Yes.
What is the skeptic's strategy?


0:08:52.330,0:08:55.640
0:10:29.750,0:10:31.990
Vipul: There's nothing wrong in the algebra
What do you mean by skeptic strategy?
here. So, what could be


0:08:55.640,0:09:00.310
0:10:31.990,0:10:37.370
wrong? Our setup seems fine. If the x value
Well, the skeptic should have some strategy
is within delta distance
that works, so the skeptic should pick an


0:09:00.310,0:09:03.350
0:10:37.370,0:10:43.290
of 2 then the function value is within epsilon
epsilon that is smart and then the skeptic
this is 4. That's
should pick an x that works.


0:09:03.350,0:09:05.360
0:10:43.290,0:10:50.209
exactly what we want to prove, correct?
What epsilon should the skeptic pick? Suppose
the skeptic picks epsilon as 50 million,


0:09:05.360,0:09:11.120
0:10:50.209,0:10:52.050
So, there's nothing wrong this point onward.
is that a winning strategy?
So, the error happened


0:09:11.120,0:09:14.440
0:10:52.050,0:10:52.790
somewhere here. Where do you think that part
Rui: No.
you think what is wrong


0:09:14.440,0:09:21.160
0:10:52.790,0:10:53.899
here? In the strategy choice step? What do
Vipul: Why not?
you think went wrong in the


0:09:21.160,0:09:24.010
0:10:53.899,0:10:58.300
strategy choice step?
Rui: He should pick something between -1 and
1, right?


0:09:24.010,0:09:28.850
0:10:58.300,0:11:01.920
What? Okay, so let's go over the game. Skeptic
Vipul: Well epsilon is a positive number so
will choose the epsilon,
what do you mean?


0:09:28.850,0:09:29.760
0:11:01.920,0:11:04.600
then?
Rui: Oh, anything between one, smaller.


0:09:29.760,0:09:35.130
0:11:04.600,0:11:05.230
KM: Then the prover chooses delta.
Vipul: Smaller than...


0:09:35.130,0:09:36.080
0:11:05.230,0:11:08.999
Vipul: Prover chooses delta. Then?
Rui: Less than one. Epsilon.


0:09:36.080,0:09:39.529
0:11:08.999,0:11:12.470
KM: Then the skeptic has to choose the x value.
Vipul: Less than one. Why will that work?


0:09:39.529,0:09:42.470
0:11:12.470,0:11:19.470
Vipul: x value. So, when the prover is deciding
Rui: Because even if it is less than one then
the strategy, when the
anything, no matter what kind of delta...


0:09:42.470,0:09:45.860
0:11:20.930,0:11:27.930
prover is choosing the delta, what information
Vipul: Whatever L the prover picked...What
does the prover have?
is the width of this interval? The distance


0:09:45.860,0:09:48.410
0:11:28.209,0:11:29.589
KM: He just has the information epsilon.
from the top and the bottom is?


0:09:48.410,0:09:50.500
0:11:29.589,0:11:30.279
Vipul: Just the information on epsilon. So?
Rui: 2


0:09:50.500,0:09:57.060
0:11:30.279,0:11:30.980
KM: So, in this case the mistake was that
Vipul: [2 times] epsilon.
because he didn't know the x value yet?


0:09:57.060,0:10:03.100
0:11:30.980,0:11:31.680
Vipul: The strategy cannot depend on x.
Rui: [2 times] epsilon.


0:10:03.100,0:10:04.800
0:11:31.680,0:11:38.680
KM: Yeah.
Vipul: 2 epsilon. If epsilon
is less than one, the skeptic's strategy is
pick epsilon less than one any epsilon.


0:10:04.800,0:10:09.790
0:11:43.089,0:11:50.089
Vipul: So, the prover is sort of picking the
The skeptic can fix epsilon in the beginning, maybe pick
delta based on x but the
epsilon as 0.1 or something, but any epsilon


0:10:09.790,0:10:12.660
0:11:50.610,0:11:52.019
prover doesn't know x at this stage when
less than one will do.
picking the delta. The delta


0:10:12.660,0:10:15.910
0:11:52.019,0:11:59.019
that the prover chooses has to be completely
In fact epsilon equal to one will do. Let
a function of epsilon
us play safe and pick epsilon as 0.1.


0:10:15.910,0:10:19.680
0:11:59.810,0:12:00.999
alone, it cannot depend on the future moves
Why does it work?
of the skeptic because the


0:10:19.680,0:10:23.700
0:12:00.999,0:12:06.600
prover cannot read the skeptic's mind. Okay?
Because this 2 epsilon cannot include both
And doesn't know what the
one and minus one.


0:10:23.700,0:10:24.800
0:12:06.600,0:12:12.649
skeptic plans to do.
It cannot cover this entire thing because
this has width two, from one to minus one.


0:10:24.800,0:10:31.800
0:12:12.649,0:12:17.589
So that is the ... that's the ... I call
If the skeptic picks an epsilon less than
this ... can you see what I
one, regardless of the L the prover has tried,


0:10:42.240,0:10:43.040
0:12:17.589,0:12:23.079
call this?
the strip is not wide enough to include everything
from minus one to one.


0:10:43.040,0:10:45.399
0:12:23.079,0:12:27.990
KM: The strongly telepathic prover.
Regardless of what Delta the prover picks,
we know that however small an interval we


0:10:45.399,0:10:51.470
0:12:27.990,0:12:32.180
Vipul: So, do you know what I meant by that?
pick around zero, the function is going to
Well, I meant the prover
take all values from negative one to one in


0:10:51.470,0:10:58.470
0:12:32.180,0:12:35.759
is sort of reading the skeptic's mind. All
that small interval.
right? It's called


0:11:07.769,0:11:10.329
0:12:35.759,0:12:40.819
telepathy.
Now the skeptic will be able to find an x
such that the function value lies outside


0:11:10.329,0:11:17.329
0:12:40.819,0:12:42.290
Okay, the next one.
the interval.


0:11:25.589,0:11:30.230
0:12:42.290,0:12:45.579
This one says that the function defined this
The skeptic should...the key idea is that
way. Okay? It's defined
the skeptic pick epsilon small enough, in


0:11:30.230,0:11:34.829
0:12:45.579,0:12:50.360
as g(x) is x when x is rational and zero when
this case the skeptic's choice of epsilon
x is irrational. So,
doesn't depend on what L the prover chose.


0:11:34.829,0:11:41.829
0:12:50.360,0:12:51.269
what would this look like? Well, it's like
It need not.
this. There's a line y


0:11:42.750,0:11:49.510
0:12:51.269,0:12:52.889
equals x and there's the x-axis and the
The strategy doesn't.
graph is just the irrational x


0:11:49.510,0:11:52.750
0:12:52.889,0:12:59.889
coordinate parts of this line and the rational
Then after the prover has picked a delta,
x coordinate parts of
picked an x such that the function lies outside.


0:11:52.750,0:11:56.350
0:13:01.249,0:13:07.410
this line. It's kind of like both these
Regardless of the L the prover picks,
lines but only parts of
that L doesn't work as a limit because


0:11:56.350,0:11:58.529
0:13:07.410,0:13:10.550
them. Right?
the skeptic wins and so the limit doesn't
exist.</toggledisplay>


0:11:58.529,0:12:02.079
==Strategic aspects==
Now we want to show that limit as x approaches
zero of g(x) is


0:12:02.079,0:12:06.899
===The strategy of small===
zero. So just in here, do you think the statement
is true? That x goes


0:12:06.899,0:12:09.910
In the game formulation of the limit, the following loose statements are true:
to zero, does this function go to zero?


0:12:09.910,0:12:10.610
* "Smaller is smarter" for the skeptic, i.e., the smaller the choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>, the better the outlook is for the skeptic to win.
KM: Yes.
* "Smaller is smarter" for the prover, i.e., the smaller the choice of <math>\delta</math>, the better the outlook is for the prover to win.


0:12:10.610,0:12:17.610
In other words, each side benefits by making the crucial move of that side as small as possible. However, there does not exist any ''single'' arbitrarily small number -- this is related to the observation in the [[#Two key ideas|motivation section]] that there is no such thing as a ''single'' arbitrarily close number. Thus, saying "choose as small a value as possible" is not a coherent strategy. What we can say is the following:
Vipul: Because both the pieces are going to
zero. That's the inclusion. Okay?


0:12:20.610,0:12:24.089
* If a value of <math>\delta > 0</math> works for a given value of <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, the same value of <math>\delta > 0</math> also works for larger choices of <math>\varepsilon</math>.
This is the proof we have here. So the idea,
* If a value of <math>\delta > 0</math> works for a given value of <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, smaller values of <math>\delta > 0</math> also work for the same choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>.
we again think about it


0:12:24.089,0:12:27.790
===Prover's strategy revisited===
in terms of the game. The skeptic first picks
the epsilon, okay? Now


0:12:27.790,0:12:30.779
The prover, in choosing a winning strategy, must specify a rule that can determine a value of <math>\delta</math> that works in terms of the value of <math>\varepsilon</math> specified by the skeptic. In other words, the prover must have a way of specifying <math>\delta</math> ''as a function of'' <math>\varepsilon</math>.
that we would have to choose the delta, but
there are really two cases


0:12:30.779,0:12:35.200
The skeptic also chooses <math>x</math> in the next move. However, the prover has no way of knowing the value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to pick. Thus, in order for the prover to have a winning strategy, the prover's choice of <math>\delta</math> should be such that ''no matter what'' <math>x</math> the skeptic picks, the prover wins.
on x, right? x rational and x irrational.
So the prover chooses the


0:12:35.200,0:12:39.459
===Skeptic's strategy revisited===
delta based on sort of whether the x is rational
or irrational, so if


0:12:39.459,0:12:43.880
The skeptic, in choosing a winning strategy, must specify the value of <math>\varepsilon</math> and then specify how to pick a value of <math>x</math> that works. When picking the value of <math>\varepsilon</math>, the skeptic does not know what <math>\delta</math> the prover will pick. Thus, the skeptic's choice of <math>\varepsilon</math> cannot be dependent on the prover's subsequent choice of <math>\delta</math>.
the x is rational then the prover just picks
delta equals epsilon, and


0:12:43.880,0:12:48.339
However, when picking the value of <math>x</math>, the skeptic is aware of (and constrained by) the prover's choice of <math>\delta</math>.
that's good enough for rational x, right?
Because for rational x the


0:12:48.339,0:12:51.410
==Misconceptions==
slope of the line is one so picking delta
as epsilon is good enough.


0:12:51.410,0:12:55.760
Most misconceptions associated with the formal <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> definition of limit have to do with the ordering of the moves in the game, who's in charge of what move, and what information each person has at the time of making the move. We describe some common misconceptions below.
For irrational x, if the skeptic's planning
to choose an irrational x


0:12:55.760,0:12:59.730
<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=F0r_offAc5M}}</center>
then the prover can just choose any delta
actually. Like just pick


0:12:59.730,0:13:03.880
Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay>
the delta in advance. Like delta is one or
0:00:15.500,0:00:19.140
something. Because if x is
Vipul: Okay. This talk is going to be about
certain misconceptions


0:13:03.880,0:13:10.430
0:00:19.140,0:00:22.440
irrational then it's like a constant function
that people have regarding limits and these
and therefore, like, for
are misconceptions that


0:13:10.430,0:13:14.970
0:00:22.440,0:00:25.840
any delta the function is trapped within epsilon
people generally acquire after...
distance of the given


0:13:14.970,0:13:16.970
0:00:25.840,0:00:29.180
limit. Okay?
These are not the misconceptions that
people have before studying limits,


0:13:16.970,0:13:19.950
0:00:29.180,0:00:32.730
So the prover sort of makes two cases based
these are misconceptions you might have after
on whether the skeptic
studying limits,


0:13:19.950,0:13:26.950
0:00:32.730,0:00:35.059
will pick a rational or an irrational x and
after studying the epsilon delta definition.
sort of based on that if


0:13:27.040,0:13:30.730
0:00:35.059,0:00:38.550
it's rational this is the prover's strategy,
I'm going to describe these misconceptions
if it's irrational then
in terms of the limit game,


0:13:30.730,0:13:34.050
0:00:38.550,0:00:41.900
the prover can just do any delta.
the prover skeptic game of the limit. Though
the misconceptions


0:13:34.050,0:13:37.630
0:00:41.900,0:00:45.850
Can you tell me what's wrong with this proof?
themselves don't depend on
the understanding of the


0:13:37.630,0:13:44.630
0:00:45.850,0:00:49.059
KM: So, you're still kind of basing it on
game but to understand exactly what's
what the skeptic is going to
happening, it's better to think


0:13:44.750,0:13:45.800
0:00:49.059,0:00:51.010
pick next.
of it in terms of the game.


0:13:45.800,0:13:49.100
0:00:51.010,0:00:55.370
Vipul: Okay. It's actually pretty much the
First recall the definition. So limit as x
same problem [as the
approaches c of f(x) is a


0:13:49.100,0:13:55.449
0:00:55.370,0:01:01.629
preceding one], in a somewhat minor form.
number L; so c and L are both numbers, real
The prover is sort of making
numbers. f is a function,


0:13:55.449,0:13:59.959
0:01:01.629,0:01:06.380
cases based on what the skeptic is going to
x is approaching c. And we said this is true
do next, and choosing a
if the following -- for


0:13:59.959,0:14:01.940
0:01:06.380,0:01:10.180
strategy according to that. But the prover
every epsilon greater than zero, there exists
doesn't actually know what
a delta greater than


0:14:01.940,0:14:05.089
0:01:10.180,0:01:14.800
the skeptic is going to do next, so the prover
zero such that for all x which are within delta
should actually have a
distance of c, f(x) is


0:14:05.089,0:14:08.970
0:01:14.800,0:01:17.590
single strategy that works in both cases.
within epsilon distance of L. Okay?
If cases will be made to


0:14:08.970,0:14:12.209
0:01:17.590,0:01:24.590
prove that the strategy works so the prover
Now, how do we describe this in terms for
has to have a single
limit game?


0:14:12.209,0:14:12.459
0:01:26.530,0:01:33.530
strategy.
KM: So, skeptic starts off with the first
part of the definition.


0:14:12.449,0:14:15.370
0:01:34.990,0:01:38.189
Now in this case the strategy we can choose
Vipul: By picking the epsilon? Okay, that's
the prover just, the
the thing written in


0:14:15.370,0:14:18.779
0:01:38.189,0:01:42.939
prover can pick delta as epsilon because that
black. What's the skeptic trying to do? What's the
will work in both cases.
goal of the skeptic?


0:14:18.779,0:14:20.019
0:01:42.939,0:01:49.100
KM: Exactly.
KM: To try and pick an epsilon that would
not work.


0:14:20.019,0:14:23.320
0:01:49.100,0:01:53.450
Vipul: Yeah. But in general if you have two
Vipul: So the goal of the skeptic is to try
different piece
to show that the statement is false.


0:14:23.320,0:14:26.579
0:01:53.450,0:01:54.100
definitions then the way you would do it so
KM: Yeah.
you would pick delta as


0:14:26.579,0:14:30.300
0:01:54.100,0:01:57.790
the min [minimum] of the delta that work in
Vipul: Right? In this case the skeptic should
the two different pieces,
try to start by choosing


0:14:30.300,0:14:32.910
0:01:57.790,0:02:02.220
because you sort of want to make sure that
an epsilon that is really [small] -- the goal of
both cases are covered. But
the skeptic is to pick an


0:14:32.910,0:14:36.730
0:02:02.220,0:02:04.500
the point is you have to do that -- take
epsilon that's really small, what is the
the min use that rather than
skeptic trying to challenge


0:14:36.730,0:14:39.730
0:02:04.500,0:02:07.920
just say, "I'm going to choose my delta
the prover into doing by picking the epsilon?
based on what the skeptic is
The skeptic is trying to


0:14:39.730,0:14:42.589
0:02:07.920,0:02:11.959
going to move next." Okay?
challenge the prover into trapping the function
close to L when x is


0:14:42.589,0:14:49.120
0:02:11.959,0:02:17.040
This is a minor form of the same misconception
close to c. And the way the skeptic specifies
that that was there in
what is meant by "close to L" is


0:14:49.120,0:14:56.120
0:02:17.040,0:02:19.860
the previous example we saw.
by the choice of epsilon. Okay?


0:15:04.620,0:15:11.620
0:02:19.860,0:02:24.900
So, this is what I call the mildly telepathic
When picking epsilon the skeptic is  
prover, right? The
effectively picking this interval, L -


0:15:14.970,0:15:18.579
0:02:24.900,0:02:30.700
prover is still behaving telepathically
epsilon, L + epsilon). Okay? And basically
predicting the skeptic's future
that's what the skeptic is


0:15:18.579,0:15:23.740
0:02:30.700,0:02:33.680
moves but it's not so bad. The prover is
doing. The prover is then picking a delta.
just making, like, doing a
What is the goal of the


0:15:23.740,0:15:25.470
0:02:33.680,0:02:36.239
coin toss type of telepathy. That isn't
prover in picking the delta? The prover is
the only one the prover is
saying, "Here's how I can


0:15:25.470,0:15:30.790
0:02:36.239,0:02:40.099
actually, deciding exactly what x skeptic
trap the function within that interval. I'm
would take. But it's still
going to pick a delta and


0:15:30.790,0:15:32.790
0:02:40.099,0:02:43.520
the same problem and the reason why I think
my claim is that if the x value within delta distance of c, except the
people will have this


0:15:32.790,0:15:36.329
0:02:43.520,0:02:47.000
misconception is because they don't think
point c itself, so my claim is for any x value
about it in terms of the
there the function is


0:15:36.329,0:15:38.970
0:02:47.000,0:02:48.260
sequence in which the moves are made, and
trapped in here."
the information that each


0:15:38.970,0:15:45.970
0:02:48.260,0:02:52.819
body has at any given stage of the game.
So, the prover picks the delta and then the
skeptic tries to


0:15:50.889,0:15:57.889
0:02:52.819,0:02:56.709
Let's do this one.
test the prover's claim by picking an x


0:16:10.930,0:16:15.259
0:02:56.709,0:02:59.670
So, this is a limit game, right? Let's say
which is within the interval specified by
that limit as x approaches
the prover and then they


0:16:15.259,0:16:22.259
0:02:59.670,0:03:03.379
1 of 2x is 2, okay? How do we go about showing
both check whether f(x) is within epsilon
this? Well, the idea is
distance [of L]. If it is


0:16:23.699,0:16:27.990
0:03:03.379,0:03:07.940
let's play the game, right? Let's say
then the prover wins and if it is not, if
the skeptic it picks epsilon as
this [|f(x) - L|]is not less


0:16:27.990,0:16:34.990
0:03:07.940,0:03:09.989
0.1, okay? The prover picks delta as 0.05.
than epsilon then the skeptic wins. Okay?
The skeptic is then picking


0:16:35.139,0:16:38.790
0:03:09.989,0:03:13.659
epsilon as 0.1, the skeptic is saying, "Please
So, the skeptic is picking the neighborhood
trap the function
of the target point which


0:16:38.790,0:16:43.800
0:03:13.659,0:03:17.030
between 1.9 and 2.1. Okay? Find the delta
in this case is just the open interval of
small enough so that the
radius epsilon, the prover


0:16:43.800,0:16:48.389
0:03:17.030,0:03:21.940
function value is dropped between 1.9 and
is picking the delta which is effectively the
2.1. The prover picks delta
neighborhood of the domain


0:16:48.389,0:16:55.389
0:03:21.940,0:03:25.760
as 0.05 which means the prover is now getting
point except the point c as I've said open
the input value trap
interval (c - delta, c +


0:16:57.850,0:17:04.850
0:03:25.760,0:03:30.870
between 0.95 and 1.05. That's 1 plus minus
delta) excluding c and then the skeptic picks
this thing. And now the
an x in the neighborhood


0:17:05.439,0:17:09.070
0:03:30.870,0:03:35.700
prover is claiming that if the x value is
specified by prover and if the function value
within this much distance of
is within the interval


0:17:09.070,0:17:13.959
0:03:35.700,0:03:38.830
1 except the value equal to 1, then the function
specified by the skeptic then the prover wins.
value is within 0.1


0:17:13.959,0:17:17.630
0:03:38.830,0:03:41.989
distance of 2. So, the skeptic tries picking
Now, what does it mean to say the statement
x within the interval
is true in terms of the


0:17:17.630,0:17:23.049
0:03:41.989,0:03:43.080
prescribed by the prover, so maybe the skeptic
game?
picks 0.97 which is


0:17:23.049,0:17:26.380
0:03:43.080,0:03:50.080
within 0.05 distance of 1.
KM: So, it means that the prover is always
going to win the game.


0:17:26.380,0:17:31.570
0:03:51.849,0:03:55.629
And then they check that f(x) is 1.94, that
Vipul: Well, sort of. I mean the prover may
is at the distance of 0.06
play it stupidly. The


0:17:31.570,0:17:38.570
0:03:55.629,0:04:00.750
from 2. So, it's within 0.1 of the claimed
prover can win the game if the prover plays
limit. Who won the game?
well. So, the prover has a


0:17:38.780,0:17:42.650
0:04:00.750,0:04:03.230
If the thing is within the interval then who
winning strategy for the game. Okay?
wins?


0:17:42.650,0:17:43.320
0:04:05.230,0:04:10.299
KM: The prover.
The statement is true if the prover has a
winning strategy for the


0:17:43.320,0:17:46.720
0:04:10.299,0:04:14.090
Vipul: The prover wins, right? So, the prover
game and that means the prover has a way
won again so therefore
of playing the game such that


0:17:46.720,0:17:52.100
0:04:14.090,0:04:17.320
this limit statement is true, right? So, what's
whatever the skeptic does the prover is going
wrong with this as a
to win the game. The


0:17:52.100,0:17:57.370
0:04:17.320,0:04:20.789
proof that the limit statement is true? How
statement is considered false if the skeptic
is this not a proof that
has a winning strategy


0:17:57.370,0:18:03.870
0:04:20.789,0:04:23.370
the limit statement is true? This what I've
for the game which means the skeptic has a
written here, why is that
way of playing so that


0:18:03.870,0:18:05.990
0:04:23.370,0:04:25.729
not a proof that the limit statement is true?
whatever the prover does the skeptic can win
the game.


0:18:05.990,0:18:11.960
0:04:25.729,0:04:27.599
KM: Because it's only an example for the
Or if the game doesn't make sense at all
specific choice of epsilon and x.
...


0:18:11.960,0:18:16.200
0:04:27.599,0:04:29.460
Vipul: Yes, exactly. So, it's like a single
maybe the function is not defined on
play of the game, the


0:18:16.200,0:18:20.470
0:04:29.460,0:04:31.050
prover wins, but the limit statement doesn't
the immediate left and right of c.
just say that the prover


0:18:20.470,0:18:24.380
0:04:31.050,0:04:32.370
wins the game, it says the prover has a winning
If the function isn't defined then we
strategy. It says that


0:18:24.380,0:18:27.660
0:04:32.370,0:04:34.160
the prover can win the game regardless of
cannot even make sense of the statement.
how the skeptic plays;


0:18:27.660,0:18:31.070
0:04:34.160,0:04:36.990
there's a way for the prover to do that.
Either way -- the skeptic has a winning strategy
This just gives one example


0:18:31.070,0:18:34.640
0:04:36.990,0:04:37.770
where the prover won the game, but it doesn't
or the game doesn't make sense --
tell us that regardless


0:18:34.640,0:18:37.280
0:04:41.770,0:04:43.470
of the epsilon the skeptic takes the prover
then the statement is false.
can pick a delta such that


0:18:37.280,0:18:41.090
0:04:43.470,0:04:47.660
regardless of the x the skeptic picks, the
If the prover has a winning strategy
function is within the
the statement is true.


0:18:41.090,0:18:45.530
0:04:47.660,0:04:54.660
thing. So that's what they should do. Okay?
With this background in mind let's look
at some common misconceptions.


0:18:45.530,0:18:51.160
0:04:56.540,0:05:03.540
Now you notice -- I'm sure you notice this
Okay. Let's say we are trying to prove that
but the way the game and the
the limit as x approaches


0:18:51.160,0:18:58.160
0:05:27.620,0:05:31.530
limit definition. The way the limit definition
2 of x^2 is 4, so is that statement correct?
goes, you see that all
The statement we're


0:18:59.870,0:19:04.260
0:05:31.530,0:05:32.060
the moves of the skeptic be right "for every"
trying to prove?
"for all." Right? And


0:19:04.260,0:19:07.390
0:05:32.060,0:05:32.680
for all the moves of the prover it's "there
KM: Yes.
exists." Why do we do


0:19:07.390,0:19:11.140
0:05:32.680,0:05:35.960
that? Because we are trying to get a winning
Vipul: That's correct. Because in fact x^2
strategy for the prover,
is a continuous function


0:19:11.140,0:19:14.309
0:05:35.960,0:05:40.160
so the prover controls his own moves. Okay?
and the limit of a continuous function at
the point is just the


0:19:14.309,0:19:15.250
0:05:40.160,0:05:43.030
KM: Exactly.
value at the point and 2^2 is 4. But we're
going to now try to prove


0:19:15.250,0:19:18.630
0:05:43.030,0:05:48.530
Vipul: So, therefore wherever it's a prover
this formally using the epsilon-delta definition
move it will be a there
of limit, okay? Now


0:19:18.630,0:19:22.240
0:05:48.530,0:05:51.229
exists. Where there is a skeptic's move
in terms of the epsilon-delta definition or
the prover has to be prepared
rather in terms of this


0:19:22.240,0:19:29.240
0:05:51.229,0:05:55.160
for anything the skeptic does. All those moves
game setup, what we need to do is we need
are "for every."
to describe a winning


0:19:30.559,0:19:33.850
0:05:55.160,0:06:01.460
One last one. By the way, this one was called,
strategy for the prover. Okay? We need to
"You say you want a
describe delta in terms of


0:19:33.850,0:19:36.870
0:06:01.460,0:06:05.240
replay?" Which is basically they're just
epsilon. The prover essentially ... the only
saying that just one play is
move the prover makes is


0:19:36.870,0:19:40.890
0:06:05.240,0:06:09.130
not good enough. If the statement is actually
this choice of delta. Right? The skeptic picked
true, the prover should
epsilon, the prover


0:19:40.890,0:19:45.370
0:06:09.130,0:06:12.810
be willing to accept the skeptic ones, the
picked delta then the skeptic picks x and
reply and say they want to
then they judge who won. The


0:19:45.370,0:19:47.679
0:06:12.810,0:06:15.810
play it again, the prover should say "sure"
only choice the prover makes is the choice
and "I'm going to win
of delta, right?


0:19:47.679,0:19:53.320
0:06:15.810,0:06:16.979
again." That's what it would mean for
KM: Exactly.
the limit statement to be true.


0:19:53.320,0:20:00.320
0:06:16.979,0:06:20.080
One last one. Just kind of pretty similar
Vipul: The prover has to specify delta in terms
to the one we just saw. Just
of epsilon.


0:20:16.690,0:20:23.690
0:06:20.080,0:06:24.819
a little different.
So, here is my strategy. My strategy is I'm
going to choose delta as,


0:20:39.020,0:20:46.020
0:06:24.819,0:06:29.509
Okay, this one, let's see. We are saying
I as a prover is going to choose delta as
that the limit as x
epsilon over the absolute


0:20:50.450,0:20:56.900
0:06:29.509,0:06:33.690
approaches zero of sin(1/x) is zero, right?
value of x plus 2 [|x + 2|]. Okay?
Let's see how we prove


0:20:56.900,0:21:01.409
0:06:33.690,0:06:36.880
this. If the statement true ... well, do you
Now, what I want to show that this strategy
think the statement is
works. So, what I'm claiming


0:21:01.409,0:21:08.409
0:06:36.880,0:06:39.840
true? As x approach to zero, is sin 1 over
is that if ... so let me just finish this
x approaching zero? So
and then you can tell me where


0:21:13.980,0:21:20.980
0:06:39.840,0:06:43.419
here's the picture of sin(1/x). y-axis.
I went wrong here, okay? I'm claiming that
It's an oscillatory function
this strategy works which


0:21:22.010,0:21:27.870
0:06:43.419,0:06:47.130
and it has this kind of picture. Does it doesn't
means I'm claiming that if the skeptic now
go to zero as x
picks any x which is within


0:21:27.870,0:21:29.270
0:06:47.130,0:06:54.130
approaches zero?
delta distance of 2; the target point,


0:21:29.270,0:21:30.669
0:06:56.710,0:07:01.490
KM: No.
then the function value is within epsilon
distance of 4, the claimed


0:21:30.669,0:21:35.539
0:07:01.490,0:07:04.080
Vipul: No. So, you said that this statement
limit. That's what I want to show.
is false, but I'm going to


0:21:35.539,0:21:38.700
0:07:04.080,0:07:08.300
try to show it's true. Here's how I do
Now is that true? Well, here's how I do
that. Let's say the skeptic
it. I say, I start by


0:21:38.700,0:21:44.510
0:07:08.300,0:07:13.539
picks epsilon as two, okay? And then the prover
taking this expression, I factor it as
... so, the epsilon is
|x - 2||x + 2|. The absolute


0:21:44.510,0:21:48.520
0:07:13.539,0:07:16.810
two so that's the interval of width two
value of product is the product of the absolute
about the game limit zero. The
values so this can be


0:21:48.520,0:21:55.150
0:07:16.810,0:07:21.599
prover picks delta as 1/pi. Whatever x the
split like that. Now I say, well, we know
skeptic picks, okay?
that |x - 2| is less than


0:21:55.150,0:22:02.150
0:07:21.599,0:07:24.979
Regardless of the x that the
delta and this is a positive thing. So we
skeptic picks, the function is trapped
can write this as less than delta
within epsilon of the game limit. Is that


0:22:10.340,0:22:16.900
0:07:24.979,0:07:31.979
true? Yes, because sin
times absolute value x plus 2. Right? And
(1/x) is between minus 1 and 1, right? Therefore
this delta is epsilon over


0:22:16.900,0:22:20.100
0:07:35.599,0:07:37.620
since the skeptic
|x + 2| and we get epsilon.
picked an epsilon of 2, the function value


0:22:20.100,0:22:24.030
0:07:37.620,0:07:40.460
is completely trapped in
So, this thing equals something, less than
the interval from -1 to 1, so therefore the
something, equals


0:22:24.030,0:22:27.919
0:07:40.460,0:07:43.580
prover managed to trap it
something, equals something, you have a chain
within distance of 2 of the claimed limit zero.
of things, there's one


0:22:27.919,0:22:30.970
0:07:43.580,0:07:47.720
Okay? Regardless of what
step that you have less than. So overall we
the skeptic does, right? It's not just saying
get that this expression,


0:22:30.970,0:22:34.370
0:07:47.720,0:07:53.740
that the prover won the
this thing is less than epsilon. So, we have
game once, it's saying whatever x the skeptic
shown that whatever x the


0:22:34.370,0:22:40.740
0:07:53.740,0:08:00.370
picks the prover can
skeptic would pick, the function value lies
still win the game. Right? Regardless if the
within the epsilon


0:22:40.740,0:22:43.780
0:08:00.370,0:08:05.030
x is skeptic picks, the
distance of the claimed limit. As long as the skeptic picks x within
prover picked a delta such that the function


0:22:43.780,0:22:48.100
0:08:05.030,0:08:09.240
is trapped. It's
delta distance of the target point.
completely trapped, okay? It's not an issue


0:22:48.100,0:22:51.130
0:08:09.240,0:08:16.240
of whether the skeptic
Does this strategy work? Is this a proof?
picks the stupid x. Do you think that this
What's wrong with this?


0:22:51.130,0:22:52.130
0:08:24.270,0:08:31.270
proves the statement?
Do you think there's anything wrong
with the algebra I've done here?


0:22:52.130,0:22:59.130
0:08:33.510,0:08:40.510
KM: No, I mean in this case it still depended
KM: Well, we said that ...
on the epsilon that the


0:23:01.030,0:23:01.820
0:08:40.910,0:08:47.910
skeptic chose.
Vipul: So, is there anything wrong in the
algebra here? This is this,


0:23:01.820,0:23:04.980
0:08:50.160,0:08:51.740
Vipul: It's still dependent on the epsilon
this is less than delta, delta ... So, this
that the skeptic chose? So,
part


0:23:04.980,0:23:05.679
0:08:51.740,0:08:52.089
yes, that's exactly the problem.
seems fine, right?


0:23:05.679,0:23:09.370
0:08:52.089,0:08:52.339
So, we proved that the statement -- we prove
KM: Yes.
that from this part onward


0:23:09.370,0:23:12.500
0:08:52.330,0:08:55.640
but it still, we didn't prove it for all
Vipul: There's nothing wrong in the algebra
epsilon, we only prove for
here. So, what could be


0:23:12.500,0:23:16.309
0:08:55.640,0:09:00.310
epsilon is 2, and 2 is a very big number,
wrong? Our setup seems fine. If the x value
right? Because the
is within delta distance


0:23:16.309,0:23:19.970
0:09:00.310,0:09:03.350
oscillation is all happening between minus
of 2 then the function value is within epsilon
1 and 1, and if in fact the
distance of 4. That's


0:23:19.970,0:23:26.970
0:09:03.350,0:09:05.360
skeptic had pick epsilon as 1 or something
exactly what we want to prove, right?
smaller than 1 then the two


0:23:27.030,0:23:32.169
0:09:05.360,0:09:11.120
epsilon strip width would not cover the entire
So, there's nothing wrong this point onward.
-1, +1
So, the error happened


0:23:32.169,0:23:35.490
0:09:11.120,0:09:14.440
interval, and then whatever the prover did
somewhere here. What do you think
the skeptic could actually
was wrong


0:23:35.490,0:23:39.530
0:09:14.440,0:09:21.160
pick an x and show that it's not trapped.
here? In the strategy choice step? What do
So, in fact the reason why
you think went wrong in the


0:23:39.530,0:23:43.110
0:09:21.160,0:09:24.010
the prover could win the game from this point
strategy choice step?
onward is that the


0:23:43.110,0:23:45.900
0:09:24.010,0:09:28.850
skeptic made of stupid choice of epsilon.
Well, okay, so in what order do they play their moves?
Okay?
Skeptic will choose the epsilon,


0:23:45.900,0:23:52.289
0:09:28.850,0:09:29.760
In all these situation, all these misconceptions,
then?
the main problem is,


0:23:52.289,0:23:58.919
0:09:29.760,0:09:35.130
that we're not ... keeping in mind the order
KM: Then the prover chooses delta.
which the moves I made


0:23:58.919,0:24:04.179
0:09:35.130,0:09:36.080
and how much information each claim has at
Vipul: Prover chooses delta. Then?
the stage where that move


0:24:04.179,0:24:04.789
0:09:36.080,0:09:39.529
is being made.</toggledisplay>
KM: Then the skeptic has to choose the x value.


==Misconceptions==
0:09:39.529,0:09:42.470
Vipul: x value. So, when the prover is deciding
the strategy, when the


Most misconceptions associated with the formal <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> definition of limit have to do with the ordering of the moves in the game, who's in charge of what move, and what information each person has at the time of making the move. We describe some common misconceptions below.
0:09:42.470,0:09:45.860
prover is choosing the delta, what information
does the prover have?


<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=F0r_offAc5M}}</center>
0:09:45.860,0:09:48.410
KM: He just has the information  on epsilon.


Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay>
0:09:48.410,0:09:50.500
0:00:15.500,0:00:19.140
Vipul: Just the information on epsilon. So?
Vipul: Okay. This talk is going to be about
certain misconceptions


0:00:19.140,0:00:22.440
0:09:50.500,0:09:57.060
that people have regarding limits and these
KM: So, in this case the mistake was that
are misconceptions that
because he didn't know the x value yet?


0:00:22.440,0:00:25.840
0:09:57.060,0:10:03.100
people generally acquire after...
Vipul: The strategy cannot depend on x.


0:00:25.840,0:00:29.180
0:10:03.100,0:10:04.800
These are not the misconceptions that
KM: Yeah.
people have before studying limits,


0:00:29.180,0:00:32.730
0:10:04.800,0:10:09.790
these are misconceptions you might have after
Vipul: So, the prover is picking the
studying limits,
delta based on x but the


0:00:32.730,0:00:35.059
0:10:09.790,0:10:12.660
after studying the epsilon delta definition.
prover doesn't know x at this stage when
picking the delta. The delta


0:00:35.059,0:00:38.550
0:10:12.660,0:10:15.910
I'm going to describe these misconceptions
that the prover chooses has to be completely
in terms of the limit game,
a function of epsilon


0:00:38.550,0:00:41.900
0:10:15.910,0:10:19.680
the prover skeptic game of the limit. Though
alone, it cannot depend on the future moves
the misconceptions
of the skeptic because the


0:00:41.900,0:00:45.850
0:10:19.680,0:10:23.700
themselves don't depend on
prover cannot read the skeptic's mind. Okay?
the understanding of the
And doesn't know what the


0:00:45.850,0:00:49.059
0:10:23.700,0:10:24.800
game but to understand exactly what's
skeptic plans to do.
happening, it's better to think


0:00:49.059,0:00:51.010
0:10:24.800,0:10:31.800
of it in terms of the game.
So that is the ... that's the proof. I call
this the ...


0:00:51.010,0:00:55.370
0:10:42.240,0:10:43.040
First recall the definition. So limit as x
Can you see what I call this?
approaches c of f(x) is a


0:00:55.370,0:01:01.629
0:10:43.040,0:10:45.399
number L; so c and L are both numbers, real
KM: The strongly telepathic prover.
numbers. f is a function,


0:01:01.629,0:01:06.380
0:10:45.399,0:10:51.470
x is approaching c. And we said this is true
Vipul: So, do you know what I meant by that?
if the following -- for
Well, I meant the prover


0:01:06.380,0:01:10.180
0:10:51.470,0:10:58.470
every epsilon greater than zero, there exists
is reading the skeptic's mind. All
a delta greater than
right? It's called telepathy.


0:01:10.180,0:01:14.800
0:11:07.769,0:11:10.329
zero such that for all x which are within delta
distance of c, f(x) is


0:01:14.800,0:01:17.590
0:11:10.329,0:11:17.329
within epsilon distance of L. Okay?
Okay, the next one.


0:01:17.590,0:01:24.590
0:11:25.589,0:11:30.230
Now, how do we describe this in terms for
This one says there's a function defined piecewise. Okay? It's defined
limit game?


0:01:26.530,0:01:33.530
0:11:30.230,0:11:34.829
KM: So, skeptic starts off with the first
as g(x) is x when x is rational and zero when
part of the definition.
x is irrational. So,


0:01:34.990,0:01:38.189
0:11:34.829,0:11:41.829
Vipul: By picking the epsilon? Okay, that's
what would this look like? Well, pictorially, there's a line y
the thing written in


0:01:38.189,0:01:42.939
0:11:42.750,0:11:49.510
black. What's the skeptic trying to do? What's the
equals x and there's the x-axis and the
goal of the skeptic?
graph is just the irrational x


0:01:42.939,0:01:49.100
0:11:49.510,0:11:52.750
KM: To try and pick an epsilon that would
coordinate parts of this line and the rational
not work.
x coordinate parts of


0:01:49.100,0:01:53.450
0:11:52.750,0:11:56.350
Vipul: So the goal of the skeptic is to try
this line. It's kind of like both these
to show that the statement is false.
lines but only parts of


0:01:53.450,0:01:54.100
0:11:56.350,0:11:58.529
KM: Yeah.
them. Right?


0:01:54.100,0:01:57.790
0:11:58.529,0:12:02.079
Vipul: Right? In this case the skeptic should
Now we want to show that limit as x approaches
try to start by choosing
zero of g(x) is


0:01:57.790,0:02:02.220
0:12:02.079,0:12:06.899
an epsilon that is really [small] -- the goal of
zero. So just intuitively, do you think the statement
the skeptic is to pick an
is true? As x goes


0:02:02.220,0:02:04.500
0:12:06.899,0:12:09.910
epsilon that's really small, what is the
to zero, does this function go to zero?
skeptic trying to challenge


0:02:04.500,0:02:07.920
0:12:09.910,0:12:10.610
the prover into doing by picking the epsilon?
KM: Yes.
The skeptic is trying to


0:02:07.920,0:02:11.959
0:12:10.610,0:12:17.610
challenge the prover into trapping the function
Vipul: Because both the pieces are going to
close to L when x is
zero. That's the intuition. Okay?


0:02:11.959,0:02:17.040
0:12:20.610,0:12:24.089
close to c. And the way the skeptic specifies
This is the proof we have here. So the idea
what is meant by "close to L" is
is we again think about it


0:02:17.040,0:02:19.860
0:12:24.089,0:12:27.790
by the choice of epsilon. Okay?
in terms of the game. The skeptic first picks
the epsilon, okay? Now


0:02:19.860,0:02:24.900
0:12:27.790,0:12:30.779
When picking epsilon the skeptic is
the prover has to choose the delta, but
effectively picking this interval, L -
there are really two cases


0:02:24.900,0:02:30.700
0:12:30.779,0:12:35.200
epsilon, L + epsilon). Okay? And basically
on x, right? x rational and x irrational.
that's what the skeptic is
So the prover chooses the


0:02:30.700,0:02:33.680
0:12:35.200,0:12:39.459
doing. The prover is then picking a delta.
delta based on whether the x is rational
What is the goal of the
or irrational, so if


0:02:33.680,0:02:36.239
0:12:39.459,0:12:43.880
prover in picking the delta? The prover is
the x is rational then the prover just picks
saying, "Here's how I can
delta equals epsilon, and


0:02:36.239,0:02:40.099
0:12:43.880,0:12:48.339
trap the function within that interval. I'm
that's good enough for rational x, right?
going to pick a delta and
Because for rational x the


0:02:40.099,0:02:43.520
0:12:48.339,0:12:51.410
my claim is that if the x value within delta distance of c, except the
slope of the line is one so picking delta
as epsilon is good enough.


0:02:43.520,0:02:47.000
0:12:51.410,0:12:55.760
point c itself, so my claim is for any x value
For irrational x, if the skeptic's planning
there the function is
to choose an irrational x


0:02:47.000,0:02:48.260
0:12:55.760,0:12:59.730
trapped in here."
then the prover can just choose any delta
actually. Like just fix


0:02:48.260,0:02:52.819
0:12:59.730,0:13:03.880
So, the prover picks the delta and then the
a delta in advance. Like delta is one or
skeptic tries to
something. Because if x is


0:02:52.819,0:02:56.709
0:13:03.880,0:13:10.430
test the prover's claim by picking an x
irrational then it's like a constant function
and therefore, like, for


0:02:56.709,0:02:59.670
0:13:10.430,0:13:14.970
which is within the interval specified by
any delta the function is trapped within epsilon
the prover and then they
distance of the claimed


0:02:59.670,0:03:03.379
0:13:14.970,0:13:16.970
both check whether f(x) is within epsilon
limit zero. Okay?
distance [of L]. If it is


0:03:03.379,0:03:07.940
0:13:16.970,0:13:19.950
then the prover wins and if it is not, if
So the prover makes two cases based
this [|f(x) - L|]is not less
on whether the skeptic is going


0:03:07.940,0:03:09.989
0:13:19.950,0:13:26.950
than epsilon then the skeptic wins. Okay?
to pick a rational or an irrational x
and based on that if


0:03:09.989,0:03:13.659
0:13:27.040,0:13:30.730
So, the skeptic is picking the neighborhood
it's rational this is the prover's strategy,
of the target point which
if it's irrational then


0:03:13.659,0:03:17.030
0:13:30.730,0:13:34.050
in this case is just the open interval of
the prover can just pick any delta.
radius epsilon, the prover


0:03:17.030,0:03:21.940
0:13:34.050,0:13:37.630
is picking the delta which is effectively the
Can you tell me what's wrong with this proof?
neighborhood of the domain


0:03:21.940,0:03:25.760
0:13:37.630,0:13:44.630
point except the point c as I've said open
KM: So, he [the prover] is still kind of
interval (c - delta, c +
basing it on what the skeptic is going to


0:03:25.760,0:03:30.870
0:13:44.750,0:13:45.800
delta) excluding c and then the skeptic picks
pick next.
an x in the neighborhood


0:03:30.870,0:03:35.700
0:13:45.800,0:13:49.100
specified by prover and if the function value
Vipul: Okay. It's actually pretty much the
is within the interval
same problem [as the


0:03:35.700,0:03:38.830
0:13:49.100,0:13:55.449
specified by the skeptic then the prover wins.
preceding one], in a somewhat milder form.
The prover is making


0:03:38.830,0:03:41.989
0:13:55.449,0:13:59.959
Now, what does it mean to say the statement
cases based on what the skeptic is going to
is true in terms of the
do next, and choosing a


0:03:41.989,0:03:43.080
0:13:59.959,0:14:01.940
game?
strategy according to that. But the prover
doesn't actually know what


0:03:43.080,0:03:50.080
0:14:01.940,0:14:05.089
KM: So, it means that the prover is always
the skeptic is going to do next, so the prover
going to win the game.
should actually have a


0:03:51.849,0:03:55.629
0:14:05.089,0:14:08.970
Vipul: Well, sort of. I mean the prover may
single strategy that works in both cases.
play it stupidly. The
So cases will be made to


0:03:55.629,0:04:00.750
0:14:08.970,0:14:12.209
prover can win the game if the prover plays
prove that the strategy works but the prover
well. So, the prover has a
has to have a single


0:04:00.750,0:04:03.230
0:14:12.209,0:14:12.459
winning strategy for the game. Okay?
strategy.


0:04:05.230,0:04:10.299
0:14:12.449,0:14:15.370
The statement is true if the prover has a
Now in this case the correct way of doing the proof is just, the
winning strategy for the


0:04:10.299,0:04:14.090
0:14:15.370,0:14:18.779
game and that means the prover has a way
prover can pick delta as epsilon because that
of playing the game such that
will work in both cases.


0:04:14.090,0:04:17.320
0:14:18.779,0:14:20.019
whatever the skeptic does the prover is going
KM: Exactly.
to win the game. The


0:04:17.320,0:04:20.789
0:14:20.019,0:14:23.320
statement is considered false if the skeptic
Vipul: Yeah. But in general if you have two
has a winning strategy
different piece


0:04:20.789,0:04:23.370
0:14:23.320,0:14:26.579
for the game which means the skeptic has a
definitions then the way you would do it so
way of playing so that
you would pick delta as


0:04:23.370,0:04:25.729
0:14:26.579,0:14:30.300
whatever the prover does the skeptic can win
the min [minimum] of the deltas that work in
the game.
the two different pieces,


0:04:25.729,0:04:27.599
0:14:30.300,0:14:32.910
Or if the game doesn't make sense at all
because you want to make sure that
...
both cases are covered. But


0:04:27.599,0:04:29.460
0:14:32.910,0:14:36.730
maybe the function is not defined on
the point is you have to do that -- take
the min use that rather than


0:04:29.460,0:04:31.050
0:14:36.730,0:14:39.730
the immediate left and right of c.
just say, "I'm going to choose my delta
based on what the skeptic is


0:04:31.050,0:04:32.370
0:14:39.730,0:14:42.589
If the function isn't defined then we
going to move next." Okay?


0:04:32.370,0:04:34.160
0:14:42.589,0:14:49.120
cannot even make sense of the statement.
So this is a milder form of the same
misconception that that was there in


0:04:34.160,0:04:36.990
0:14:49.120,0:14:56.120
Either way -- the skeptic has a winning strategy
the previous example we saw.


0:04:36.990,0:04:37.770
0:15:04.620,0:15:11.620
or the game doesn't make sense --
So, this is what I call the mildly telepathic
prover, right? The


0:04:41.770,0:04:43.470
0:15:14.970,0:15:18.579
then the statement is false.
prover is still behaving telepathically
predicting the skeptic's future


0:04:43.470,0:04:47.660
0:15:18.579,0:15:23.740
If the prover has a winning strategy
moves but it's not so bad. The prover is
the statement is true.
just making, like, doing a


0:04:47.660,0:04:54.660
0:15:23.740,0:15:25.470
With this background in mind let's look
coin toss type of telepathy. Whereas in the
at some common misconceptions.
earlier one is prover is


0:04:56.540,0:05:03.540
0:15:25.470,0:15:30.790
Okay. Let's say we are trying to prove that
actually, deciding exactly what x the skeptic
the limit as x approaches
would pick. But it's still


0:05:27.620,0:05:31.530
0:15:30.790,0:15:32.790
2 of x^2 is 4, so is that statement correct?
the same problem and the reason why I think
The statement we're
people will have this


0:05:31.530,0:05:32.060
0:15:32.790,0:15:36.329
trying to prove?
misconception is because they don't think
about it in terms of the


0:05:32.060,0:05:32.680
0:15:36.329,0:15:38.970
KM: Yes.
sequence in which the moves are made, and
the information that each


0:05:32.680,0:05:35.960
0:15:38.970,0:15:45.970
Vipul: That's correct. Because in fact x^2
party has at any given stage of the game.
is a continuous function


0:05:35.960,0:05:40.160
0:15:50.889,0:15:57.889
and the limit of a continuous function at
Let's do this one.
the point is just the


0:05:40.160,0:05:43.030
0:16:10.930,0:16:15.259
value at the point and 2^2 is 4. But we're
So, this is a limit claim, right? It says
going to now try to prove
that the limit as x approaches


0:05:43.030,0:05:48.530
0:16:15.259,0:16:22.259
this formally using the epsilon-delta definition
1 of 2x is 2, okay? How do we go about showing
of limit, okay? Now
this? Well, the idea is


0:05:48.530,0:05:51.229
0:16:23.699,0:16:27.990
in terms of the epsilon-delta definition or
let's play the game, right? Let's say
rather in terms of this
the skeptic picks epsilon as


0:05:51.229,0:05:55.160
0:16:27.990,0:16:34.990
game setup, what we need to do is we need
0.1, okay? The prover picks delta as 0.05.
to describe a winning
The skeptic is when picking


0:05:55.160,0:06:01.460
0:16:35.139,0:16:38.790
strategy for the prover. Okay? We need to
epsilon as 0.1, the skeptic is saying, "Please
describe delta in terms of
trap the function


0:06:01.460,0:06:05.240
0:16:38.790,0:16:43.800
epsilon. The prover essentially ... the only
between 1.9 and 2.1. Okay? Find the delta
move the prover makes is
small enough so that the


0:06:05.240,0:06:09.130
0:16:43.800,0:16:48.389
this choice of delta. Right? The skeptic picked
function value is trapped between 1.9 and
epsilon, the prover
2.1. The prover picks delta


0:06:09.130,0:06:12.810
0:16:48.389,0:16:55.389
picked delta then the skeptic picks x and
as 0.05 which means the prover is now getting
then they judge who won. The
the input value trapped


0:06:12.810,0:06:15.810
0:16:57.850,0:17:04.850
only choice the prover makes is the choice
between 0.95 and 1.05. That's 1 plus minus
of delta, right?
this thing. And now the


0:06:15.810,0:06:16.979
0:17:05.439,0:17:09.070
KM: Exactly.
prover is claiming that if the x value is
within this much distance of


0:06:16.979,0:06:20.080
0:17:09.070,0:17:13.959
Vipul: The prover has to specify delta in terms
1 except the value equal to 1, then the function
of epsilon.
value is within 0.1


0:06:20.080,0:06:24.819
0:17:13.959,0:17:17.630
So, here is my strategy. My strategy is I'm
distance of 2. So, the skeptic tries picking
going to choose delta as,
x within the interval


0:06:24.819,0:06:29.509
0:17:17.630,0:17:23.049
I as a prover is going to choose delta as
specified by the prover, so maybe the skeptic
epsilon over the absolute
picks 0.97 which is


0:06:29.509,0:06:33.690
0:17:23.049,0:17:26.380
value of x plus 2 [|x + 2|]. Okay?
within 0.05 distance of 1.


0:06:33.690,0:06:36.880
0:17:26.380,0:17:31.570
Now, what I want to show that this strategy
And then they check that 2x [the function f(x)] is
works. So, what I'm claiming
1.94, that is at the distance of 0.06


0:06:36.880,0:06:39.840
0:17:31.570,0:17:38.570
is that if ... so let me just finish this
from 2. So, it's within 0.1 of the claimed
and then you can tell me where
limit 2. So who won the game?


0:06:39.840,0:06:43.419
0:17:38.780,0:17:42.650
I went wrong here, okay? I'm claiming that
If the thing is within the interval then who
this strategy works which
wins?


0:06:43.419,0:06:47.130
0:17:42.650,0:17:43.320
means I'm claiming that if the skeptic now
KM: The prover.
picks any x which is within


0:06:47.130,0:06:54.130
0:17:43.320,0:17:46.720
delta distance of 2; the target point,
Vipul: The prover wins, right? So, the prover
won the game so therefore


0:06:56.710,0:07:01.490
0:17:46.720,0:17:52.100
then the function value is within epsilon
this limit statement is true, right? So, what's
distance of 4, the claimed
wrong with this as a


0:07:01.490,0:07:04.080
0:17:52.100,0:17:57.370
limit. That's what I want to show.
proof that the limit statement is true? How
is this not a proof that


0:07:04.080,0:07:08.300
0:17:57.370,0:18:03.870
Now is that true? Well, here's how I do
the limit statement is true? This what I've
it. I say, I start by
written here, why is that


0:07:08.300,0:07:13.539
0:18:03.870,0:18:05.990
taking this expression, I factor it as
not a proof that the limit statement is true?
|x - 2||x + 2|. The absolute


0:07:13.539,0:07:16.810
0:18:05.990,0:18:11.960
value of product is the product of the absolute
KM: Because it's only an example for the
values so this can be
specific choice of epsilon and x.


0:07:16.810,0:07:21.599
0:18:11.960,0:18:16.200
split like that. Now I say, well, we know
Vipul: Yes, exactly. So, it's like a single
that |x - 2| is less than
play of the game, the


0:07:21.599,0:07:24.979
0:18:16.200,0:18:20.470
delta and this is a positive thing. So we
prover wins, but the limit statement doesn't
can write this as less than delta
just say that the prover


0:07:24.979,0:07:31.979
0:18:20.470,0:18:24.380
times absolute value x plus 2. Right? And
wins the game, it says the prover has a winning
this delta is epsilon over
strategy. It says that


0:07:35.599,0:07:37.620
0:18:24.380,0:18:27.660
|x + 2| and we get epsilon.
the prover can win the game regardless of
how the skeptic plays;


0:07:37.620,0:07:40.460
0:18:27.660,0:18:31.070
So, this thing equals something, less than
there's a way for the prover to do that.
something, equals
This just gives one example


0:07:40.460,0:07:43.580
0:18:31.070,0:18:34.640
something, equals something, you have a chain
where the prover won the game, but it doesn't
of things, there's one
tell us that regardless


0:07:43.580,0:07:47.720
0:18:34.640,0:18:37.280
step that you have less than. So overall we
of the epsilon the skeptic picks the prover
get that this expression,
can pick a delta such that


0:07:47.720,0:07:53.740
0:18:37.280,0:18:41.090
this thing is less than epsilon. So, we have
regardless of the x the skeptic picks, the
shown that whatever x the
function is within the


0:07:53.740,0:08:00.370
0:18:41.090,0:18:45.530
skeptic would pick, the function value lies
thing. So that's the issue here. Okay?
within the epsilon


0:08:00.370,0:08:05.030
0:18:45.530,0:18:51.160
distance of the claimed limit. As long as the skeptic picks x within
Now you notice -- I'm sure you've noticed
this but the way the game and the


0:08:05.030,0:08:09.240
0:18:51.160,0:18:58.160
delta distance of the target point.
limit definition. The way the limit definition
goes, you see that all


0:08:09.240,0:08:16.240
0:18:59.870,0:19:04.260
Does this strategy work? Is this a proof?
the moves of the skeptic we write "for every"
What's wrong with this?
"for all." Right? And


0:08:24.270,0:08:31.270
0:19:04.260,0:19:07.390
Do you think there's anything wrong
for all the moves of the prover we write "there
with the algebra I've done here?
exists." Why do we do


0:08:33.510,0:08:40.510
0:19:07.390,0:19:11.140
KM: Well, we said that ...
that? Because we are trying to get a winning
strategy for the prover,


0:08:40.910,0:08:47.910
0:19:11.140,0:19:14.309
Vipul: So, is there anything wrong in the
so the prover controls his own moves. Okay?
algebra here? This is this,


0:08:50.160,0:08:51.740
0:19:14.309,0:19:15.250
this is less than delta, delta ... So, this
KM: Exactly.
part


0:08:51.740,0:08:52.089
0:19:15.250,0:19:18.630
seems fine, right?
Vipul: So, therefore wherever it's a prover
move it will be a there


0:08:52.089,0:08:52.339
0:19:18.630,0:19:22.240
KM: Yes.
exists. Where there is a skeptic's move
the prover has to be prepared


0:08:52.330,0:08:55.640
0:19:22.240,0:19:29.240
Vipul: There's nothing wrong in the algebra
for anything the skeptic does. All those moves
here. So, what could be
are "for every."


0:08:55.640,0:09:00.310
0:19:30.559,0:19:33.850
wrong? Our setup seems fine. If the x value
One last one. By the way, this one was called,
is within delta distance
"You say you want a


0:09:00.310,0:09:03.350
0:19:33.850,0:19:36.870
of 2 then the function value is within epsilon
replay?" Which is basically they're just
distance of 4. That's
saying that just one play is


0:09:03.350,0:09:05.360
0:19:36.870,0:19:40.890
exactly what we want to prove, right?
not good enough. If the statement is actually
true, the prover should


0:09:05.360,0:09:11.120
0:19:40.890,0:19:45.370
So, there's nothing wrong this point onward.
be willing to accept it if the skeptic wants a
So, the error happened
replay and say they want to


0:09:11.120,0:09:14.440
0:19:45.370,0:19:47.679
somewhere here. What do you think
play it again, the prover should say "sure"
was wrong
and "I'm going to win


0:09:14.440,0:09:21.160
0:19:47.679,0:19:53.320
here? In the strategy choice step? What do
again." That's what it would mean for
you think went wrong in the
the limit statement to be true.


0:09:21.160,0:09:24.010
0:19:53.320,0:20:00.320
strategy choice step?
One last one. Just kind of pretty similar
to the one we just saw. But with


0:09:24.010,0:09:28.850
0:20:16.690,0:20:23.690
Well, okay, so in what order do they play their moves?
a little twist.
Skeptic will choose the epsilon,


0:09:28.850,0:09:29.760
0:20:39.020,0:20:46.020
then?
Okay, this one, let's see. We are saying
that the limit as x


0:09:29.760,0:09:35.130
0:20:50.450,0:20:56.900
KM: Then the prover chooses delta.
approaches zero of sin(1/x) is zero, right?
Let's see how we prove


0:09:35.130,0:09:36.080
0:20:56.900,0:21:01.409
Vipul: Prover chooses delta. Then?
this. If the statement true ... well, do you
think the statement is


0:09:36.080,0:09:39.529
0:21:01.409,0:21:08.409
KM: Then the skeptic has to choose the x value.
true? As x approach to zero, is sin 1 over
x approaching zero? So


0:09:39.529,0:09:42.470
0:21:13.980,0:21:20.980
Vipul: x value. So, when the prover is deciding
here's the picture of sin(1/x). y-axis.
the strategy, when the
It's an oscillatory function


0:09:42.470,0:09:45.860
0:21:22.010,0:21:27.870
prover is choosing the delta, what information
and it has this kind of picture. Does it doesn't
does the prover have?
go to zero as x


0:09:45.860,0:09:48.410
0:21:27.870,0:21:29.270
KM: He just has the information  on epsilon.
approaches zero?


0:09:48.410,0:09:50.500
0:21:29.270,0:21:30.669
Vipul: Just the information on epsilon. So?
KM: No.


0:09:50.500,0:09:57.060
0:21:30.669,0:21:35.539
KM: So, in this case the mistake was that
Vipul: No. So, you said that this statement
because he didn't know the x value yet?
is false, but I'm going to


0:09:57.060,0:10:03.100
0:21:35.539,0:21:38.700
Vipul: The strategy cannot depend on x.
try to show it's true. Here's how I do
that. Let's say the skeptic


0:10:03.100,0:10:04.800
0:21:38.700,0:21:44.510
KM: Yeah.
picks epsilon as two, okay? And then the prover
... so, the epsilon is


0:10:04.800,0:10:09.790
0:21:44.510,0:21:48.520
Vipul: So, the prover is picking the
two so that's the interval of width two
delta based on x but the
about the game limit zero. The


0:10:09.790,0:10:12.660
0:21:48.520,0:21:55.150
prover doesn't know x at this stage when
prover picks delta as 1/pi. Whatever x the
picking the delta. The delta
skeptic picks, okay?


0:10:12.660,0:10:15.910
0:21:55.150,0:22:02.150
that the prover chooses has to be completely
Regardless of the x that the  
a function of epsilon
skeptic picks, the function is trapped
within epsilon of the game limit. Is that


0:10:15.910,0:10:19.680
0:22:10.340,0:22:16.900
alone, it cannot depend on the future moves
true? Yes, because sin
of the skeptic because the
(1/x) is between minus 1 and 1, right? Therefore


0:10:19.680,0:10:23.700
0:22:16.900,0:22:20.100
prover cannot read the skeptic's mind. Okay?
since the skeptic
And doesn't know what the
picked an epsilon of 2, the function value


0:10:23.700,0:10:24.800
0:22:20.100,0:22:24.030
skeptic plans to do.
is completely trapped in
the interval from -1 to 1, so therefore the


0:10:24.800,0:10:31.800
0:22:24.030,0:22:27.919
So that is the ... that's the proof. I call
prover managed to trap it
this the ...
within distance of 2 of the claimed limit zero.


0:10:42.240,0:10:43.040
0:22:27.919,0:22:30.970
Can you see what I call this?
Okay? Regardless of what
the skeptic does, right? It's not just saying


0:10:43.040,0:10:45.399
0:22:30.970,0:22:34.370
KM: The strongly telepathic prover.
that the prover won the
game once, it's saying whatever x the skeptic


0:10:45.399,0:10:51.470
0:22:34.370,0:22:40.740
Vipul: So, do you know what I meant by that?
picks the prover can
Well, I meant the prover
still win the game. Right? Regardless if the


0:10:51.470,0:10:58.470
0:22:40.740,0:22:43.780
is reading the skeptic's mind. All
x the skeptic picks, the
right? It's called telepathy.
prover picked a delta such that the function


0:11:07.769,0:11:10.329
0:22:43.780,0:22:48.100
is trapped. It's
completely trapped, okay? It's not an issue


0:11:10.329,0:11:17.329
0:22:48.100,0:22:51.130
Okay, the next one.
of whether the skeptic
picked a stupid x. Do you think that this


0:11:25.589,0:11:30.230
0:22:51.130,0:22:52.130
This one says there's a function defined piecewise. Okay? It's defined
proves the statement?


0:11:30.230,0:11:34.829
0:22:52.130,0:22:59.130
as g(x) is x when x is rational and zero when
KM: No, I mean in this case it still depended
x is irrational. So,
on the epsilon that the


0:11:34.829,0:11:41.829
0:23:01.030,0:23:01.820
what would this look like? Well, pictorially, there's a line y
skeptic chose.


0:11:42.750,0:11:49.510
0:23:01.820,0:23:04.980
equals x and there's the x-axis and the
Vipul: It's still dependent on the epsilon
graph is just the irrational x
that the skeptic chose? So,


0:11:49.510,0:11:52.750
0:23:04.980,0:23:05.679
coordinate parts of this line and the rational
yes, that's exactly the problem.
x coordinate parts of


0:11:52.750,0:11:56.350
0:23:05.679,0:23:09.370
this line. It's kind of like both these
So, we proved that the statement -- we prove
lines but only parts of
that from this part onward


0:11:56.350,0:11:58.529
0:23:09.370,0:23:12.500
them. Right?
but it still, we didn't prove it for all
epsilon, we only prove for


0:11:58.529,0:12:02.079
0:23:12.500,0:23:16.309
Now we want to show that limit as x approaches
epsilon is 2, and 2 is a very big number,
zero of g(x) is
right? Because the


0:12:02.079,0:12:06.899
0:23:16.309,0:23:19.970
zero. So just intuitively, do you think the statement
oscillation is all happening between minus
is true? As x goes
1 and 1, and if in fact the


0:12:06.899,0:12:09.910
0:23:19.970,0:23:26.970
to zero, does this function go to zero?
skeptic had pick epsilon as 1 or something
smaller than 1 then the two


0:12:09.910,0:12:10.610
0:23:27.030,0:23:32.169
KM: Yes.
epsilon strip width would not cover the entire
-1, +1


0:12:10.610,0:12:17.610
0:23:32.169,0:23:35.490
Vipul: Because both the pieces are going to
interval, and then whatever the prover did
zero. That's the intuition. Okay?
the skeptic could actually


0:12:20.610,0:12:24.089
0:23:35.490,0:23:39.530
This is the proof we have here. So the idea
pick an x and show that it's not trapped.
is we again think about it
So, in fact the reason why


0:12:24.089,0:12:27.790
0:23:39.530,0:23:43.110
in terms of the game. The skeptic first picks
the prover could win the game from this point
the epsilon, okay? Now
onward is that the


0:12:27.790,0:12:30.779
0:23:43.110,0:23:45.900
the prover has to choose the delta, but
skeptic made a stupid choice of epsilon.
there are really two cases
Okay?


0:12:30.779,0:12:35.200
0:23:45.900,0:23:52.289
on x, right? x rational and x irrational.
In all these situation, all these misconceptions,
So the prover chooses the
the main problem is,


0:12:35.200,0:12:39.459
0:23:52.289,0:23:58.919
delta based on whether the x is rational
that we're not ... keeping in mind the order
or irrational, so if
which the moves I made


0:12:39.459,0:12:43.880
0:23:58.919,0:24:04.179
the x is rational then the prover just picks
and how much information each claim has at
delta equals epsilon, and
the stage where that move


0:12:43.880,0:12:48.339
0:24:04.179,0:24:04.789
that's good enough for rational x, right?
is being made.
Because for rational x the
</toggledisplay>


0:12:48.339,0:12:51.410
===Strongly telepathic prover===
slope of the line is one so picking delta
as epsilon is good enough.


0:12:51.410,0:12:55.760
''Spot the error in  this'':
For irrational x, if the skeptic's planning
to choose an irrational x


0:12:55.760,0:12:59.730
{{quotation|Consider the limit problem <math>\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 2} x^2 = 4</math>. The <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> proof corresponding to this problem would involve a game between a prover and a skeptic. To show that the limit statement is true, it suffices to exhibit a winning strategy for the prover for the game. The strategy is as follows. Pick <math>\delta = \frac{\varepsilon}{|x + 2|}</math>. Let's prove that this works.<br><br>''Specific claim'': For any skeptic-picked <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, if the prover picks <math>\delta > 0</math> such that <math>\delta = \varepsilon/|x + 2|</math>, then regardless of the <math>x</math> that the skeptic picks with <math>0 < |x - 2| < \delta</math>, we have <math>|x^2 - 4| < \varepsilon</math>.<br><br>''Proof of claim'': We have: <br><math>|x^2 - 4| = |x - 2||x + 2| < \delta|x + 2| = \frac{\varepsilon}{|x + 2|} |x + 2| = \varepsilon</math>}}
then the prover can just choose any delta
actually. Like just fix


0:12:59.730,0:13:03.880
The error is as follows: <toggledisplay>Recall the sequence of moves made in the game. First, the skeptic picks <math>\varepsilon > 0 </math>. Then, the prover picks <math>\delta > 0</math>. ''Then'', the skeptic picks a test value of <math>x</math> to challenge the prover's claim of the function being trapped. In particular, this means that at the stage that the prover picks the value of <math>\delta</math>, the prover is ''unaware'' of the value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to pick. Hence, the prover's strategy for choosing <math>\delta</math> cannot use <math>x</math>. Rather, the prover must have a strategy for <math>\delta</math> purely in terms of <math>\varepsilon</math>, which is the only piece of information known to the prover at that stage in the game.
a delta in advance. Like delta is one or
something. Because if x is


0:13:03.880,0:13:10.430
This also explains why we called this error the ''strongly telepathic prover'', i.e., it involved the prover reading the skeptic's mind about future planned moves, which is impermissible.
irrational then it's like a constant function
and therefore, like, for


0:13:10.430,0:13:14.970
Although this strategy is wrong, it can be fixed to get a correct strategy, i.e., this is the right way to ''start'' thinking about how this type of problem could be attacked. What the prover needs to do is pick a choice of <math>\delta</math> that works for all <math>x</math> that the skeptic can pick in the constrained interval. The algebra done here provides some guidelines on how the prover can make such a choice, but another idea, namely, the idea of a ''cut-off value'', is needed to complete the strategy.</toggledisplay>
any delta the function is trapped within epsilon
distance of the claimed


0:13:14.970,0:13:16.970
===Mildly telepathic prover===
limit zero. Okay?


0:13:16.970,0:13:19.950
''Spot the error in this'':
So the prover makes two cases based
on whether the skeptic is going


0:13:19.950,0:13:26.950
{{quotation|Consider the limit problem: <br><math>g(x) = \left \lbrace \begin{array}{ll} x, & x \text{ rational } \\ 0, & x \text{ irrational }\\\end{array}\right.</math><br>We want to show that <math>\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 0} g(x) = 0</math><br>For this game, we need to exhibit a winning strategy for the prover. The winning strategy is as follows. The skeptic first chooses <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>. The prover now makes two cases. If the skeptic is planning to pick a rational value of <math>x</math>, then the prover chooses the strategy <math>\delta = \varepsilon</math>. If the skeptic is planning to choose an irrational value of <math>x</math>, then the prover can pick any <math>\delta</math>.<br>Clearly, the prover's strategy works in both cases, so we have a winning strategy.}}
to pick a rational or an irrational x  
and based on that if


0:13:27.040,0:13:30.730
Th error is as follows: <toggledisplay>Recall the sequence of moves made in the game. First, the skeptic picks <math>\varepsilon > 0 </math>. Then, the prover picks <math>\delta > 0</math>. ''Then'', the skeptic picks a test value of <math>x</math> to challenge the prover's claim of the function being trapped. In particular, this means that at the stage that the prover picks the value of <math>\delta</math>, the prover is ''unaware'' of the value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to pick. Hence, the prover's strategy for choosing <math>\delta</math> cannot rely on specifics about what <math>x</math> the skeptic plans to choose.
it's rational this is the prover's strategy,
if it's irrational then


0:13:30.730,0:13:34.050
This error is similar to the preceding error. Both involve impermissible telepathy on the prover's part in reading the skeptic's mind. The ''strongly telepathic prover'' error is more severe in the sense that it involves the prover reading the exact value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to play, whereas the ''mildly telepathic prover'' error only involves the prover guessing the ''type'' of value (rational or irrational) that the skeptic plans to play.
the prover can just pick any delta.


0:13:34.050,0:13:37.630
The fix for the mildly telepathic prover error is that the prover chooses a ''combined'' strategy that ''simultaneously'' works for both eventualities. In this situation, the strategy <math>\delta = \varepsilon</math> works for both situations (rational and irrational <math>x</math>). In general, for a function with two piece definitions for rational and irrational points in the domain, we need to take the ''min'' of the <math>\delta</math>-strategies that work for the definitions individually. A similar approach works for different definitions on the left and right.</toggledisplay>
Can you tell me what's wrong with this proof?


0:13:37.630,0:13:44.630
===You say you want a replay?===
KM: So, he [the prover] is still kind of
basing it on what the skeptic is going to


0:13:44.750,0:13:45.800
''Spot the error in this'':
pick next.


0:13:45.800,0:13:49.100
{{quotation|Consider the limit problem <math>\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 1} 2x = 2</math>. Let's think of this in terms of an <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> game. The skeptic begins by picking <math>\varepsilon = 0.1</math>. The prover chooses <math>\delta = 0.05</math>. The skeptic now chooses <math>x = 0.97</math>. This value of <math>x</math> is within the <math>\delta</math>-distance of <math>1</math>. It's now checked that <math>2x = 1.94</math> is within <math>\varepsilon</math>-distance of the claimed limit <math>2</math>. The prover  has thus won the game, and we have established the truth of the limit statement.}}
Vipul: Okay. It's actually pretty much the
same problem [as the


0:13:49.100,0:13:55.449
The error is as follows: <toggledisplay>This involves ''only one'' play of the <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> limit game. The prover did win this play of the game. However, for us to declare the limit statement to be true, we need to establish that the prover has a ''winning strategy'' for the game, which means we need to demonstrate how the prover would pick a <math>\delta</math> in terms of each choice of <math>\varepsilon</math> (preferably by specifying <math>\delta</math> explicitly as a function of <math>\varepsilon</math>) and then show that the strategy works for all <math>x</math> within <math>\delta</math>-distance of the point on the domain side.
preceding one], in a somewhat milder form.
The prover is making


0:13:55.449,0:13:59.959
It so happens that in this case, the limit statement is true and the prover did play the game according to one possible winning strategy: <math>\delta = \varepsilon/2</math>. However, since we weren't actually told the winning strategy, let alone given an explanation of why it works, what we're given fails as a proof.</toggledisplay>
cases based on what the skeptic is going to
do next, and choosing a


0:13:59.959,0:14:01.940
===Playing to lose===
strategy according to that. But the prover
doesn't actually know what


0:14:01.940,0:14:05.089
''Spot the error in  this'':
the skeptic is going to do next, so the prover
should actually have a


0:14:05.089,0:14:08.970
{{quotation|Here's an easy proof that <math>\lim_{x \to 0} \sin(1/x) = 0</math>. We need to show that the prover has a winning strategy for the game. Let's say the skeptic starts out by picking <math>\varepsilon = 2</math>. The prover then picks <math>\delta = 1/\pi</math>. It can now easily be verified that for <math>0 < |x| < \delta</math>, <math>|\sin(1/x) - 0| < 2</math>, because the <math>\sin</math> function is trapped within <math>[-1,1]</math>. Thus, the prover has succeeded in trapping the function within the $\varepsilon$-interval specified by the skeptic, and hence won the game. The limit statement is therefore true.}}
single strategy that works in both cases.
So cases will be made to


0:14:08.970,0:14:12.209
The error is as follows: <toggledisplay>This involves ''only one'' choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>. The proof does show that with the choice <math>\varepsilon = 2</math>, the prover wins the game. However, in order to show that the limit statement is true, one would need to demonstrate that the prover wins the game for ''every'' possible choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>. In particular, from the skeptic's viewpoint, ''smaller is smarter'', so the prover needs to have a strategy to win the game for arbitrarily small <math>\varepsilon</math>.
prove that the strategy works but the prover
has to have a single


0:14:12.209,0:14:12.459
In fact, the limit statement is false, and for any choice of <math>\varepsilon \le 1</math>, the prover ''cannot'' win the game, because the range of the function on the immediate left and immediate right of zero is <math>[-1,1]</math>.</toggledisplay>
strategy.


0:14:12.449,0:14:15.370
==Conceptual definition and various cases==
Now in this case the correct way of doing the proof is just, the


0:14:15.370,0:14:18.779
===Formulation of conceptual definition===
prover can pick delta as epsilon because that
Below is the ''conceptual'' definition of limit. Suppose <math>f</math> is a function defined in a neighborhood of the point <math>c</math>, except possibly at the point <math>c</math> itself. We say that:
will work in both cases.


0:14:18.779,0:14:20.019
<math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>
KM: Exactly.


0:14:20.019,0:14:23.320
if:
Vipul: Yeah. But in general if you have two
different piece


0:14:23.320,0:14:26.579
* For every choice of neighborhood of <math>L</math> (where the term ''neighborhood'' is suitably defined)
definitions then the way you would do it so
* there exists a choice of neighborhood of <math>c</math> (where the term ''neighborhood'' is suitably defined) such that
you would pick delta as
* for all <math>x \ne c</math> that are in the chosen neighborhood of <math>c</math>
* <math>f(x)</math> is in the chosen neighborhood of <math>L</math>.


0:14:26.579,0:14:30.300
<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=bE_aKfmUHN8}}</center>
the min [minimum] of the deltas that work in
the two different pieces,


0:14:30.300,0:14:32.910
Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay>
because you want to make sure that
0:00:15.570,0:00:19.570
both cases are covered. But
Vipul: Ok, so in this talk I'm going to
do the conceptual definition


0:14:32.910,0:14:36.730
0:00:19.570,0:00:26.320
the point is you have to do that -- take
of limit, which is important for a number
the min use that rather than
of reasons. The main reason


0:14:36.730,0:14:39.730
0:00:26.320,0:00:31.349
just say, "I'm going to choose my delta
is it allows you to construct definitions
based on what the skeptic is
of limit, not just for this


0:14:39.730,0:14:42.589
0:00:31.349,0:00:34.430
going to move next." Okay?
one variable, function of one variable, two
sided limit which you have


0:14:42.589,0:14:49.120
0:00:34.430,0:00:38.930
So this is a milder form of the same
hopefully seen before you saw this video.
misconception that that was there in
Also for a number of other


0:14:49.120,0:14:56.120
0:00:38.930,0:00:43.210
the previous example we saw.
limit cases which will include limits to infinity,
functions of two


0:15:04.620,0:15:11.620
0:00:43.210,0:00:47.789
So, this is what I call the mildly telepathic
variables, etc. So this is a general blueprint
prover, right? The
for thinking about


0:15:14.970,0:15:18.579
0:00:47.789,0:00:54.789
prover is still behaving telepathically
limits. So let me put this definition here
predicting the skeptic's future
in front for this. As I am


0:15:18.579,0:15:23.740
0:00:54.890,0:00:59.289
moves but it's not so bad. The prover is
going, I will write things in more general.
just making, like, doing a
So the starting thing is...


0:15:23.740,0:15:25.470
0:00:59.289,0:01:03.899
coin toss type of telepathy. Whereas in the
first of all f should be defined around the
earlier one is prover is
point c, need not be


0:15:25.470,0:15:30.790
0:01:03.899,0:01:08.810
actually, deciding exactly what x the skeptic
defined at c, but should be defined everywhere
would pick. But it's still
around c. I won't write


0:15:30.790,0:15:32.790
0:01:08.810,0:01:11.750
the same problem and the reason why I think
that down, I don't want to complicate things
people will have this
too much. So we start


0:15:32.790,0:15:36.329
0:01:11.750,0:01:18.750
misconception is because they don't think
with saying for every epsilon greater than
about it in terms of the
zero. Why are we picking


0:15:36.329,0:15:38.970
0:01:19.920,0:01:21.689
sequence in which the moves are made, and
this epsilon greater than zero?
the information that each


0:15:38.970,0:15:45.970
0:01:21.689,0:01:22.790
party has at any given stage of the game.
Rui: Why?


0:15:50.889,0:15:57.889
0:01:22.790,0:01:26.070
Let's do this one.
Vipul: What is the goal of this epsilon? Where
will it finally appear?


0:16:10.930,0:16:15.259
0:01:26.070,0:01:28.520
So, this is a limit claim, right? It says
It will finally appear here. Is this captured?
that the limit as x approaches


0:16:15.259,0:16:22.259
0:01:28.520,0:01:29.520
1 of 2x is 2, okay? How do we go about showing
Rui: Yes.
this? Well, the idea is


0:16:23.699,0:16:27.990
0:01:29.520,0:01:32.920
let's play the game, right? Let's say
Vipul: Which means what we actually are picking
the skeptic picks epsilon as
when we...if you've


0:16:27.990,0:16:34.990
0:01:32.920,0:01:37.720
0.1, okay? The prover picks delta as 0.05.
seen the limit as a game video or you know
The skeptic is when picking
how to make a limit as a


0:16:35.139,0:16:38.790
0:01:37.720,0:01:41.700
epsilon as 0.1, the skeptic is saying, "Please
game. This first thing has been chosen by
trap the function
the skeptic, right, and the


0:16:38.790,0:16:43.800
0:01:41.700,0:01:45.840
between 1.9 and 2.1. Okay? Find the delta
skeptic is trying to challenge the prover
small enough so that the
into trapping f(x) within L - epsilon to


0:16:43.800,0:16:48.389
0:01:45.840,0:01:50.210
function value is trapped between 1.9 and
L + epsilon. Even if you haven't
2.1. The prover picks delta
seen that [the game], the main focus of


0:16:48.389,0:16:55.389
0:01:50.210,0:01:55.570
as 0.05 which means the prover is now getting
picking epsilon is to pick this interval surrounding
the input value trapped
L. So instead of


0:16:57.850,0:17:04.850
0:01:55.570,0:02:02.570
between 0.95 and 1.05. That's 1 plus minus
saying, for every epsilon greater than zero,
this thing. And now the
let's say for every


0:17:05.439,0:17:09.070
0:02:04.259,0:02:11.259
prover is claiming that if the x value is
choice of neighborhood of L. So what I mean
within this much distance of
by that, I have not


0:17:09.070,0:17:13.959
0:02:19.650,0:02:23.760
1 except the value equal to 1, then the function
clearly defined it so this is a definition
value is within 0.1
which is not really a


0:17:13.959,0:17:17.630
0:02:23.760,0:02:28.139
distance of 2. So, the skeptic tries picking
definition, sort of the blueprint for definitions.
x within the interval
It is what you fill


0:17:17.630,0:17:23.049
0:02:28.139,0:02:31.570
specified by the prover, so maybe the skeptic
in the details [of] and get a correct definition.
picks 0.97 which is
So by neighborhood,


0:17:23.049,0:17:26.380
0:02:31.570,0:02:36.180
within 0.05 distance of 1.
I mean, in this case, I would mean something
like (L - epsilon, L +


0:17:26.380,0:17:31.570
0:02:36.180,0:02:43.180
And then they check that 2x [the function f(x)] is  
epsilon). It is an open interval surrounding
1.94, that is at the distance of 0.06
L. Ok, this one. The


0:17:31.570,0:17:38.570
0:02:44.590,0:02:47.160
from 2. So, it's within 0.1 of the claimed
conceptual definition starts for every choice
limit 2. So who won the game?
of neighborhood of


0:17:38.780,0:17:42.650
0:02:47.160,0:02:54.160
If the thing is within the interval then who
L. The domain neighborhood, I haven't really
wins?
defined, but that is the


0:17:42.650,0:17:43.320
0:02:58.359,0:03:05.359
KM: The prover.
point, it is the general conceptual definition.
There exists...what


0:17:43.320,0:17:46.720
0:03:09.810,0:03:11.530
Vipul: The prover wins, right? So, the prover
should come next? [ANSWER!]
won the game so therefore


0:17:46.720,0:17:52.100
0:03:11.530,0:03:16.530
this limit statement is true, right? So, what's
Rui: A delta?
wrong with this as a
Vipul: That is what the concrete definition


0:17:52.100,0:17:57.370
0:03:16.530,0:03:18.530
proof that the limit statement is true? How
says, but what would the
is this not a proof that
conceptual thing say?


0:17:57.370,0:18:03.870
0:03:18.530,0:03:21.680
the limit statement is true? This what I've
Rui: A neighborhood.
written here, why is that
Vipul: Of what? [ANSWER!]


0:18:03.870,0:18:05.990
0:03:21.680,0:03:28.680
not a proof that the limit statement is true?
Rui: Of c.
Vipul: Of c, of the domain. The goal of picking


0:18:05.990,0:18:11.960
0:03:34.639,0:03:37.970
KM: Because it's only an example for the
delta is to find a
specific choice of epsilon and x.
neighborhood of c. Points to the immediate


0:18:11.960,0:18:16.200
0:03:37.970,0:03:44.919
Vipul: Yes, exactly. So, it's like a single
left and immediate
play of the game, the
right of c. There exists a choice of neighborhood


0:18:16.200,0:18:20.470
0:03:44.919,0:03:51.919
prover wins, but the limit statement doesn't
of c such that, by
just say that the prover
the way I sometimes abbreviate, such that,


0:18:20.470,0:18:24.380
0:03:59.850,0:04:06.109
wins the game, it says the prover has a winning
as s.t., okay, don't get
strategy. It says that
confused by that. Okay, what next? Let's


0:18:24.380,0:18:27.660
0:04:06.109,0:04:12.309
the prover can win the game regardless of
bring out the thing. The next
how the skeptic plays;
thing is for all x with |x - c| less than


0:18:27.660,0:18:31.070
0:04:12.309,0:04:19.309
there's a way for the prover to do that.
... all x in the neighborhood
This just gives one example
except the point c itself. So what should


0:18:31.070,0:18:34.640
0:04:20.040,0:04:27.040
where the prover won the game, but it doesn't
come here? For all x in the
tell us that regardless
neighborhood of c, I put x not equal to c.


0:18:34.640,0:18:37.280
0:04:36.570,0:04:37.160
of the epsilon the skeptic picks the prover
Is that clear?
can pick a delta such that


0:18:37.280,0:18:41.090
0:04:37.160,0:04:37.520
regardless of the x the skeptic picks, the
Rui: Yes.
function is within the


0:18:41.090,0:18:45.530
0:04:37.520,0:04:44.520
thing. So that's the issue here. Okay?
Vipul: x not equal to c in the neighborhood
chosen for c. The reason


0:18:45.530,0:18:51.160
0:04:49.310,0:04:53.360
Now you notice -- I'm sure you've noticed
we're excluding the point c that we take the
this but the way the game and the
limit at the point and we


0:18:51.160,0:18:58.160
0:04:53.360,0:04:55.770
limit definition. The way the limit definition
just care about stuff around, we don't care
goes, you see that all
about what is happening at


0:18:59.870,0:19:04.260
0:04:55.770,0:05:02.770
the moves of the skeptic be right "for every"
the point. For c...this chosen neighborhood...I
"for all." Right? And
am writing the black


0:19:04.260,0:19:07.390
0:05:09.880,0:05:14.440
for all the moves of the prover it's "there
for choices that the skeptic makes and the
exists." Why do we do
red for the choices the


0:19:07.390,0:19:11.140
0:05:14.440,0:05:16.490
that? Because we are trying to get a winning
prover makes, actually that's reverse of what
strategy for the prover,
I did in the other


0:19:11.140,0:19:14.309
0:05:16.490,0:05:21.320
so the prover controls his own moves. Okay?
video, but that's ok. They can change colors.
If you have seen that


0:19:14.309,0:19:15.250
0:05:21.320,0:05:24.710
KM: Exactly.
limit game thing, this color pattern just
[means] ... the black


0:19:15.250,0:19:18.630
0:05:24.710,0:05:28.400
Vipul: So, therefore wherever it's a prover
matches with the skeptic choices and the red
move it will be a there
matches what the prover


0:19:18.630,0:19:22.240
0:05:28.400,0:05:32.710
exists. Where there is a skeptic's move
chooses. If you haven't seen that, it is
the prover has to be prepared
not an issue. Just imagine


0:19:22.240,0:19:29.240
0:05:32.710,0:05:35.820
for anything the skeptic does. All those moves
it's a single color.
are "for every."


0:19:30.559,0:19:33.850
0:05:35.820,0:05:40.820
One last one. By the way, this one was called,
What happens next? What do we need to check
"You say you want a
in order to say this limit


0:19:33.850,0:19:36.870
0:05:40.820,0:05:42.950
replay?" Which is basically they're just
is L? So f(x) should be where?
saying that just one play is


0:19:36.870,0:19:40.890
0:05:42.950,0:05:44.980
not good enough. If the statement is actually
Rui: In the neighborhood of L.
true, the prover should


0:19:40.890,0:19:45.370
0:05:44.980,0:05:48.060
be willing to accept it if the skeptic wants a
Vipul: Yeah. In the concrete definition we
replay and say they want to
said f(x) minus L is less


0:19:45.370,0:19:47.679
0:05:48.060,0:05:51.440
play it again, the prover should say "sure"
than epsilon. Right, but that is just stating
and "I'm going to win
that f(x) is in the


0:19:47.679,0:19:53.320
0:05:51.440,0:05:58.440
again." That's what it would mean for
chosen neighborhood. So f(x) is in the chosen
the limit statement to be true.
neighborhood of...Now


0:19:53.320,0:20:00.320
0:06:08.470,0:06:15.470
One last one. Just kind of pretty similar
that we have this blueprint for the definition.
to the one we just saw. But with
This is a blueprint


0:20:16.690,0:20:23.690
0:06:25.660,0:06:32.660
a little twist.
for the definition. We'll write it in blue.
What I mean is, now if I


0:20:39.020,0:20:46.020
0:06:34.930,0:06:40.700
Okay, this one, let's see. We are saying
ask you to define a limit, in a slightly different
that the limit as x
context; you just


0:20:50.450,0:20:56.900
0:06:40.700,0:06:46.280
approaches zero of sin(1/x) is zero, right?
have to figure out in order to make this rigorous
Let's see how we prove
definition. What


0:20:56.900,0:21:01.409
0:06:46.280,0:06:49.240
this. If the statement true ... well, do you
word do you need to understand the meaning
think the statement is
of? [ANSWER!]


0:21:01.409,0:21:08.409
0:06:49.240,0:06:53.780
true? As x approach to zero, is sin 1 over
Rui: Neighborhood.
x approaching zero? So
Vipul: Neighborhood, right. That's the magic


0:21:13.980,0:21:20.980
0:06:53.780,0:06:59.810
here's the picture of sin(1/x). y-axis.
word behind which I am
It's an oscillatory function
hiding the details. If you can understand


0:21:22.010,0:21:27.870
0:06:59.810,0:07:06.280
and it has this kind of picture. Does it doesn't
what I mean by neighborhood
go to zero as x
then you can turn this into a concrete definition.</toggledisplay>


0:21:27.870,0:21:29.270
===Functions of one variable case===
approaches zero?


0:21:29.270,0:21:30.669
The following definitions of neighborhood are good enough to define limits.
KM: No.


0:21:30.669,0:21:35.539
* For points in the interior of the domain, for functions of one variable: We can take an open interval centered at the point. For a point <math>c</math>, such an open interval is of the form <math>(c - t, c + t), t > 0</math>. Note that if we exclude the point <math>c</math> itself, we get <math>(c - t,c) \cup (c,c + t)</math>.
Vipul: No. So, you said that this statement
* For the point <math>+\infty</math>, for functions of one variable: We take intervals of the form <math>(a,\infty)</math>, where <math>a \in \R</math>.
is false, but I'm going to
* For the point <math>-\infty</math>, for functions of one variable: We can take interval of the form <math>(-\infty,a)</math>, where <math>a \in \R</math>.


0:21:35.539,0:21:38.700
We can now list the nine cases of limits, combining finite and infinite possibilities:
try to show it's true. Here's how I do
that. Let's say the skeptic


0:21:38.700,0:21:44.510
{| class="sortable" border="1"
picks epsilon as two, okay? And then the prover
! Case !! Definition
... so, the epsilon is
|-
 
| <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>), we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L +\varepsilon)</math>).
0:21:44.510,0:21:48.520
|-
two so that's the interval of width two
| <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = -\infty</math> || For every <math>a \in \R</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>), we have <math>f(x) < a</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (-\infty,a)</math>).
about the game limit zero. The
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = \infty</math> || For every <math>a \in \R</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>), we have <math>f(x) > a</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (a,\infty)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to -\infty} f(x) = L</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x < a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (-\infty,a)</math>), we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L +\varepsilon)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to -\infty} f(x) = -\infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x < a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (-\infty,a)</math>), we have <math>f(x) < b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (-\infty,b)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to -\infty} f(x) = \infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x < a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (-\infty,a)</math>), we have <math>f(x) > b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (b,\infty)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = L</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x > a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>), we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L +\varepsilon)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = -\infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x > a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>), we have <math>f(x) < b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (-\infty,b)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = \infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x > a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>), we have <math>f(x) > b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (b,\infty)</math>).
|}


0:21:48.520,0:21:55.150
<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=EOQby7b-WrA}}</center>
prover picks delta as 1/pi. Whatever x the
skeptic picks, okay?


0:21:55.150,0:22:02.150
===Limit of sequence versus real-sense limit===
Regardless of the x that the
skeptic picks, the function is trapped
within epsilon of the game limit. Is that


0:22:10.340,0:22:16.900
Recall that the limit of a real-valued function to infinity is defined as follows:
true? Yes, because sin
(1/x) is between minus 1 and 1, right? Therefore


0:22:16.900,0:22:20.100
<math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = L</math> means that:
since the skeptic
picked an epsilon of 2, the function value


0:22:20.100,0:22:24.030
* For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>
is completely trapped in
* there exists <math>a \in \R</math> (we're thinking of the neighborhood <math>(a,\infty)</math>) such that
the interval from -1 to 1, so therefore the
* for all <math>x > a</math> (i.e. <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>)
* we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>).


0:22:24.030,0:22:27.919
Suppose now instead that <math>f</math> is a function restricted to the natural numbers. We can think of <math>f</math> as a [[sequence]], namely the sequence <math>f(1), f(2), \dots</math>. In that case:
prover managed to trap it
within distance of 2 of the claimed limit zero.


0:22:27.919,0:22:30.970
<math>\lim_{n \to \infty, n \in \mathbb{N}} f(n) = L</math> (in words, the sequence converges to <math>L</math>) means that:
Okay? Regardless of what
the skeptic does, right? It's not just saying


0:22:30.970,0:22:34.370
* For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>
that the prover won the
* there exists <math>n_0 \in \mathbb{N}</math> such that
game once, it's saying whatever x the skeptic
* for all <math>n \in \mathbb{N}</math> satisfying <math>n > n_0</math>,
* we have <math>|f(n) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(n) \in (L - \varepsilon, L + \varepsilon)</math>).


0:22:34.370,0:22:40.740
The definitions differ both in their second and third line. However, the difference in the second line (the use of a real number versus a natural number to specify the threshold for the trapping interval) is not important, i.e., we could swap these lines between the definitions without changing the sense of either definition. The key difference between the definitions lies in their third lines. In the real-sense limit definition case, we require trapping of the function value close to the claimed limit for ''all sufficiently large reals'' whereas the sequence limit definition requires trapping only for ''all sufficiently large natural numbers''.
picks the prover can
still win the game. Right? Regardless if the


0:22:40.740,0:22:43.780
To understand this distinction, consider the following: if <math>f</math> is defined on reals, and it has a real-sense limit, i.e., <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = L</math> for some <math>L \in \mathbb{R}</math>, then it must also be true that <math>\lim_{n \to \infty, n \in \mathbb{N}} f(n) = L</math>. However, it is possible for <math>f</math> to have a sequence limit but not have a real-sense limit. For instance, the function <math>f(x) := \sin(\pi x)</math> has <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x)</math> undefined but <math>\lim_{n \to \infty, n \in \mathbb{N}} f(n)</math> is zero, because <math>f</math> takes the value 0 at all integers.
x the skeptic picks, the
prover picked a delta such that the function


0:22:43.780,0:22:48.100
<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=P9APtpIE4y8}}</center>
is trapped. It's
completely trapped, okay? It's not an issue


0:22:48.100,0:22:51.130
Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay>
of whether the skeptic
picked a stupid x. Do you think that this


0:22:51.130,0:22:52.130
0:00:15.530,0:00:22.530
proves the statement?
Vipul: Okay. So this talk is going to be about
limit at infinity for functions on real numbers


0:22:52.130,0:22:59.130
0:00:24.300,0:00:28.980
KM: No, I mean in this case it still depended
and the concept of limits of sequences, how
on the epsilon that the
these definitions are essentially almost the


0:23:01.030,0:23:01.820
0:00:28.980,0:00:34.790
skeptic chose.
same thing and how they differ.


0:23:01.820,0:23:04.980
0:00:34.790,0:00:41.790
Vipul: It's still dependent on the epsilon
Okay. So let's begin by reviewing the definition
that the skeptic chose? So,
of the limit as x approaches infinity of f(x).


0:23:04.980,0:23:05.679
0:00:42.360,0:00:47.390
yes, that's exactly the problem.
Or rather what it means for that limit to
be a number L. Well, what it means is that


0:23:05.679,0:23:09.370
0:00:47.390,0:00:52.699
So, we proved that the statement -- we prove
for every epsilon greater than zero, so we
that from this part onward
first say for every neighborhood of L, small


0:23:09.370,0:23:12.500
0:00:52.699,0:00:59.429
but it still, we didn't prove it for all
neighborhood of L, given by radius epsilon
epsilon, we only prove for
there exists a neighborhood of infinity which


0:23:12.500,0:23:16.309
0:00:59.429,0:01:03.010
epsilon is 2, and 2 is a very big number,
is specified by choosing some a such that
right? Because the
that is


0:23:16.309,0:23:19.970
0:01:03.010,0:01:08.670
oscillation is all happening between minus
the interval (a,infinity) ...
1 and 1, and if in fact the


0:23:19.970,0:23:26.970
0:01:08.670,0:01:15.220
skeptic had pick epsilon as 1 or something
... such that for all x in the interval from
smaller than 1 then the two
a to infinity. That is for all x within the


0:23:27.030,0:23:32.169
0:01:15.220,0:01:20.430
epsilon strip width would not cover the entire
chosen neighborhood of infinity, the f(x)
-1, +1
value is within the chosen neighborhood of


0:23:32.169,0:23:35.490
0:01:20.430,0:01:23.390
interval, and then whatever the prover did
L. Okay?
the skeptic could actually


0:23:35.490,0:23:39.530
0:01:23.390,0:01:28.049
pick an x and show that it's not trapped.
If you want to think about it in terms of
So, in fact the reason why
the game between the prover and the skeptic,


0:23:39.530,0:23:43.110
0:01:28.049,0:01:34.560
the prover could win the game from this point
the prover is claiming that the limit as x
onward is that the
approaches infinity of f(x) is L. The skeptic


0:23:43.110,0:23:45.900
0:01:34.560,0:01:38.930
skeptic made a stupid choice of epsilon.
begins by picking a neighborhood of L which
Okay?
is parameterized by its radius epsilon. The


0:23:45.900,0:23:52.289
0:01:38.930,0:01:41.619
In all these situation, all these misconceptions,
prover picks the
the main problem is,
neighborhood of infinity which is parameterized


0:23:52.289,0:23:58.919
0:01:41.619,0:01:48.350
that we're not ... keeping in mind the order
by its lower end a. Then the skeptic picks
which the moves I made
a value x between a and infinity. Then they


0:23:58.919,0:24:04.179
0:01:48.350,0:01:51.990
and how much information each claim has at
check whether absolute value f(x) minus L
the stage where that move
[symbolically: |f(x) - L|] is less than epsilon.


0:24:04.179,0:24:04.789
0:01:51.990,0:01:56.090
is being made.
That is they check whether f(x) is in the
</toggledisplay>
chosen neighborhood of L (the neighborhood


===Strongly telepathic prover===
0:01:56.090,0:02:00.640
chosen by the skeptic). If it is,
then the prover wins. The prover has managed


''Spot the error in  this'':
0:02:00.640,0:02:05.810
to trap the function: for x large enough,
the prover has managed to trap the function


{{quotation|Consider the limit problem <math>\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 2} x^2 = 4</math>. The <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> proof corresponding to this problem would involve a game between a prover and a skeptic. To show that the limit statement is true, it suffices to exhibit a winning strategy for the prover for the game. The strategy is as follows. Pick <math>\delta = \frac{\varepsilon}{|x + 2|}</math>. Let's prove that this works.<br><br>''Specific claim'': For any skeptic-picked <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, if the prover picks <math>\delta > 0</math> such that <math>\delta = \varepsilon/|x + 2|</math>, then regardless of the <math>x</math> that the skeptic picks with <math>0 < |x - 2| < \delta</math>, we have <math>|x^2 - 4| < \varepsilon</math>.<br><br>''Proof of claim'': We have: <br><math>|x^2 - 4| = |x - 2||x + 2| < \delta|x + 2| = \frac{\varepsilon}{|x + 2|} |x + 2| = \varepsilon</math>}}
0:02:05.810,0:02:12.810
within epsilon distance of L. If not, then
the skeptic wins. The statement is true if


The error is as follows: <toggledisplay>Recall the sequence of moves made in the game. First, the skeptic picks <math>\varepsilon > 0 </math>. Then, the prover picks <math>\delta > 0</math>. ''Then'', the skeptic picks a test value of <math>x</math> to challenge the prover's claim of the function being trapped. In particular, this means that at the stage that the prover picks the vaule of <math>\delta</math>, the prover is ''unaware'' of the value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to pick. Hence, the prover's strategy for choosing <math>\delta</math> cannot use <math>x</math>. Rather, the prover must have a strategy for <math>\delta</math> purely in terms of <math>\varepsilon</math>, which is the only piece of information known to the prover at that stage in the game.
0:02:13.610,0:02:18.680
the prover has a winning the strategy for
the game.


This also explains why we called this error the ''strongly telepathic prover'', i.e., it involved the prover reading the skeptic's mind about future planned moves, which is impermissible.
0:02:18.680,0:02:21.730
Now, there is a similar definition which one
has for sequences. So, what's a sequence?


Although this strategy is wrong, it can be fixed to get a correct strategy, i.e., this is the right way to ''start'' thinking about how this type of problem could be attacked. What the prover needs to do is pick a choice of <math>\delta</math> that works for all <math>x</math> that the skeptic can pick in the constrained interval. The algebra done here provides some guidelines on how the prover can make such a choice, but another idea, namely, the idea of a ''cut-off value'', is needed to complete the strategy.</toggledisplay>
0:02:21.730,0:02:26.349
Well, it's just a function from the natural
numbers. And, here, we're talking of sequences


===Mildly telepathic prover===
0:02:26.349,0:02:31.610
of real numbers. So, it's a function from
the naturals to the reals and we use the same


''Spot the error in this'':
0:02:31.610,0:02:37.400
letter f for a good reason. Usually we write
sequences with subscripts, a_n type of thing.


{{quotation|Consider the limit problem: <br><math>g(x) = \left \lbrace \begin{array}{ll} x, & x \text{ rational } \\ 0, & x \text{ irrational }\\\end{array}\right.</math><br>We want to show that <math>\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 0} g(x) = 0$</math><br>For this game, we need to exhibit a winning strategy for the prover. The winning strategy is as follows. The skeptic first chooses <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>. The prover now makes two cases. If the skeptic is planning to pick a rational value of <math>x</math>, then the prover chooses the strategy <math>\delta = \varepsilon</math>. If the skeptic is planning to choose an irrational value of <math>x</math>, then the prover can pick any <math>\delta</math>.<br>Clearly, the prover's strategy works in both cases, so we have a winning strategy.}}
0:02:37.400,0:02:42.409
But I'm using it as a function just to highlight
the similarities. So, limit as n approaches


Th error is as follows: <toggledisplay>Recall the sequence of moves made in the game. First, the skeptic picks <math>\varepsilon > 0 </math>. Then, the prover picks <math>\delta > 0</math>. ''Then'', the skeptic picks a test value of <math>x</math> to challenge the prover's claim of the function being trapped. In particular, this means that at the stage that the prover picks the vaule of <math>\delta</math>, the prover is ''unaware'' of the value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to pick. Hence, the prover's strategy for choosing <math>\delta</math> cannot rely on specifics about what <math>x</math> the skeptic plans to choose.
0:02:42.409,0:02:47.519
infinity, n restricted to the natural numbers
... Usually if it's clear we're talking of


This error is similar to the preceding error. Both involve impermissible telepathy on the prover's part in reading the skeptic's mind. The ''strongly telepathic prover'' error is more severe in the sense that it involves the prover reading the exact value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to play, whereas the ''mildly telepathic prover'' error only involves the prover guessing the ''type'' of value (rational or irrational) that the skeptic plans to play.
0:02:47.519,0:02:52.830
a sequence, we can remove this part [pointing
to the n in N constraint specification] just
 
0:02:52.830,0:02:54.980
say limit n approaches infinity f(n),
but since we want to be really clear here,


The fix for the mildly telepathic prover error is that the prover chooses a ''combined'' strategy that ''simultaneously'' works for both eventualities. In this situation, the strategy <math>\delta = \varepsilon</math> works for both situations (rational and irrational <math>x</math>). In general, for a function with two piece definitions for rational and irrational points in the domain, we need to take the ''min'' of the <math>\delta</math>-strategies that work for the definitions individually. A similar approach works for different definitions on the left and right.</toggledisplay>
0:02:54.980,0:02:57.220
I have put this line. Okay?


===You say you want a replay?===
0:02:57.220,0:03:02.709
So, this limit equals L means "for every epsilon
greater than 0 ..." So, it starts in the same


''Spot the error in this'':
0:03:02.709,0:03:09.170
way. The skeptic picks a neighborhood of L.
Then the next line is a little different but


{{quotation|Consider the limit problem <math>\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 1} 2x = 2</math>. Let's think of this in terms of an <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> game. The skeptic begins by picking <math>\varepsilon = 0.1</math>. The prover chooses <math>\delta = 0.05</math>. The skeptic now chooses <math>x = 0.97</math>. This value of <math>x</math> is within the <math>\delta</math>-distance of <math>1</math>. It's now checked that <math>2x = 1.94</math> is within <math>\varepsilon</math>-distance of the claimed limit <math>2</math>. The prover has thus won the game, and we have established the truth of the limit statement.}}
0:03:09.170,0:03:16.170
that's not really the crucial part. The skeptic
is choosing epsilon. The prover picks n_0,


The error is as follows: <toggledisplay>This involves ''only one'' play of the <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> limit game. The prover did win this play of the game. However, for us to declare the limit statement to be true, we need to establish that the prover has a ''winning strategy'' for the game, which means we need to demonstrate how the prover would pick a <math>\delta</math> in terms of each choice of <math>\varepsilon</math> (preferably by specifying <math>\delta</math> explicitly as a function of <math>\varepsilon</math>) and then show that the strategy works for all <math>x</math> within <math>\delta</math>-distance of the point on the domain side.
0:03:18.799,0:03:22.830
a natural number. Now, here the prover is
picking a real number. Here the prover is


It so happens that in this case, the limit statement is true and the prover did play the game according to one possible winning strategy: <math>\delta = \varepsilon/2</math>. However, since we weren't actually told the winning strategy, let alone given an explanation of why it works, what we're given fails as a proof.</toggledisplay>
0:03:22.830,0:03:26.700
picking a natural number. That's not really
the big issue. You could in fact change this


===Playing to lose===
0:03:26.700,0:03:33.659
line to match. You could interchange these
lines. It wouldn't affect either definition.


''Spot the error in  this'':
0:03:33.659,0:03:40.599
The next line is the really important one
which is different. In here [pointing to real-sense


{{quotation|Here's an easy proof that <math>\lim_{x \to 0} \sin(1/x) = 0</math>. We need to show that the prover has a winning strategy for the game. Let's say the skeptic starts out by picking <math>\varepsilon = 2</math>. The prover then picks <math>\delta = 1/\pi</math>. It can now easily be verified that for <math>0 < |x| < \delta</math>, <math>|\sin(1/x) - 0| < 2</math>, because the <math>\sin</math> function is trapped within <math>[-1,1]</math>. Thus, the prover has succeeded in trapping the function within the $\varepsilon$-interval specified by the skeptic, and hence won the game. The limit statement is therefore true.}}
0:03:40.599,0:03:47.430
limit], the condition has to be valid for
all x, for all real numbers x which are bigger


The error is as follows: <toggledisplay>This involves ''only one'' choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>. The proof does show that with the choice <math>\varepsilon = 2</math>, the prover wins the game. However, in order to show that the limit statement is true, one would need to demonstrate that the prover wins the game for ''every'' possible choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>. In particular, from the skeptic's viewpoint, ''smaller is smarter'', so the prover needs to have a strategy to win the game for arbitrarily small <math>\varepsilon</math>.
0:03:47.430,0:03:51.900
than the threshold which the prover has chosen.
Here on the other hand [pointing to the sequence


In fact, the limit statement is false, and for any choice of <math>\varepsilon \le 1</math>, the prover ''cannot'' win the game, because the range of the function on the immediate left and immediate right of zero is <math>[-1,1]</math>.</toggledisplay>
0:03:51.900,0:03:56.970
limit] the condition has to be valid for all
natural numbers which are bigger than the


==Conceptual definition and various cases==
0:03:56.970,0:04:00.659
threshold the prover has chosen. By the way,
some of you may have seen the definition with


===Formulation of conceptual definition===
0:04:00.659,0:04:07.659
Below is the ''conceptual'' definition of limit. Suppose <math>f</math> is a function defined in a neighborhood of the point <math>c</math>, except possibly at the point <math>c</math> itself. We say that:
an equality sign here. It doesn't make a difference
to the definition. It does affect what n_0


<math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>
0:04:09.010,0:04:12.019
you can choose, it will go up or down by one,
but that's not


if:
0:04:12.019,0:04:17.310
really a big issue. The big issue, the big
difference between these two definitions is


* For every choice of neighborhood of <math>L</math> (where the term ''neighborhood'' is suitably defined)
0:04:17.310,0:04:23.050
* there exists a choice of neighborhood of <math>c</math> (where the term ''neighborhood'' is suitably defined) such that
that in this definition you are insisting
* for all <math>x \ne c</math> that are in the chosen neighborhood of <math>c</math>
that the condition here is valid for all real
* <math>f(x)</math> is in the chosen neighborhood of <math>L</math>.


<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=bE_aKfmUHN8}}</center>
0:04:23.050,0:04:30.050
x. So, you are insisting or rather the game
is forcing the prover to figure out how to


Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay>
0:04:31.650,0:04:36.940
0:00:15.570,0:00:19.570
trap the function values for all real x. Whereas
Vipul: Ok, so in this talk I'm going to
here, the game is only requiring the prover
do the conceptual definition


0:00:19.570,0:00:26.320
0:04:36.940,0:04:39.639
of limit, which is important for a number
to trap the function values for all large
of reasons. The main reason
enough


0:00:26.320,0:00:31.349
0:04:39.639,0:04:42.880
is it allows you to construct definitions
natural numbers. So, here [real-sense limit]
of limit, not just for this
it's all large enough real numbers. Here [sequence


0:00:31.349,0:00:34.430
0:04:42.880,0:04:49.250
one variable, function of one variable, two
limit] it's all large enough natural numbers.
sided limit which you have
Okay?


0:00:34.430,0:00:38.930
0:04:49.250,0:04:56.250
hopefully seen before you saw this video.
So, that's the only difference essentially.
Also for a number of other
Now, you can see from the way we have written


0:00:38.930,0:00:43.210
0:04:57.050,0:04:59.900
limit cases which will include limits to infinity,
this that this [real-sense limit] is much
functions of two
stronger. So, if you do have a function which


0:00:43.210,0:00:47.789
0:04:59.900,0:05:06.880
variables, etc. So this is a general blueprint
is defined on real so that both of these concepts
for thinking about
can be discussed. If it were just a sequence
 
0:05:06.880,0:05:10.080
and there were no function to talk about then
obviously, we can't even talk about this.


0:00:47.789,0:00:54.789
0:05:10.080,0:05:16.860
limits. So let me put this definition here
If there's a function defined on the reals
in front for this. As I am
or on all large enough reals, then we can


0:00:54.890,0:00:59.289
0:05:16.860,0:05:21.470
going, I will write things in more general.
try taking both of these. The existence of
So the starting thing is...
this [pointing at the real-sense limit] and


0:00:59.289,0:01:03.899
0:05:21.470,0:05:24.580
first of all f should be defined around the
[said "or", meant "and"] it's being equal
point c, need not be
to L as much stronger than this [the sequence


0:01:03.899,0:01:08.810
0:05:24.580,0:05:27.250
defined at c, but should be defined everywhere
limit] equal to L. If this is equal to L then
around c. I won't write
definitely this [the sequence limit] is equal


0:01:08.810,0:01:11.750
0:05:27.250,0:05:29.330
that down, I don't want to complicate things
to L. Okay?
too much. So we start


0:01:11.750,0:01:18.750
0:05:29.330,0:05:32.080
with saying for every epsilon greater than
But maybe there are situations where this
zero. Why are we picking
[the sequence limit] is equal to some number


0:01:19.920,0:01:21.689
0:05:32.080,0:05:38.240
this epsilon greater than zero?
but this thing [the real-sense limit] doesn't
exist. So, I want to take one example here.


0:01:21.689,0:01:22.790
0:05:38.240,0:05:45.240
Rui: Why?
I have written down an example and we can
talk a bit about that is this. So, here is


0:01:22.790,0:01:26.070
0:05:45.509,0:05:52.509
Vipul: What is the goal of this epsilon? Where
a function. f(x) = sin(pi x). This is sin
will it finally appear?
(pi x) and the corresponding


0:01:26.070,0:01:28.520
0:05:55.630,0:06:00.530
It will finally appear here. Is this captured?
function if you just restrict [it] to the
natural numbers is just sin (pi n). Now, what


0:01:28.520,0:01:29.520
0:06:00.530,0:06:06.759
Rui: Yes.
does sin (pi n) look like for a natural number
n? In fact for any integer n? pi times


0:01:29.520,0:01:32.920
0:06:06.759,0:06:13.759
Vipul: Which means what we actually are picking
n is an integer multiple of pi. sin of integer
when we...if you've
multiples of pi is zero. Let's make a picture


0:01:32.920,0:01:37.720
0:06:18.370,0:06:25.370
seen the limit as a game video or you know
of sin ...
how to make a limit as a


0:01:37.720,0:01:41.700
0:06:27.289,0:06:33.360
game. This first thing has been chosen by
It's oscillating. Right? Integer multiples
the skeptic, right, and the
of pi are precisely the ones where it's meeting


0:01:41.700,0:01:45.840
0:06:33.360,0:06:40.330
skeptic is trying to challenge the prover
the axis. So, in fact we are concerned about
into trapping f(x) within L - epsilon to
the positive one because we are talking of


0:01:45.840,0:01:50.210
0:06:40.330,0:06:45.840
L + epsilon. Even if you haven't
the sequence (natural number [inputs]). Okay?
seen that [the game], the main focus of
And so, if you are looking at this sequence,


0:01:50.210,0:01:55.570
0:06:45.840,0:06:51.090
picking epsilon is to pick this interval surrounding
all the terms here are zero. So, the limit
L. So instead of
is also zero. So, this limit [the sequence


0:01:55.570,0:02:02.570
0:06:51.090,0:06:53.030
saying, for every epsilon greater than zero,
limit] is zero.
let's say for every


0:02:04.259,0:02:11.259
0:06:53.030,0:07:00.030
choice of neighborhood of L. So what I mean
Okay. What about this limit? Well, we have
by that, I have not
the picture again. Is it going anywhere? No.


0:02:19.650,0:02:23.760
0:07:05.349,0:07:07.650
clearly defined it so this is a definition
It's oscillating between minus one and one
which is not really a
[symbolically: oscillating in [-1,1]]. It's


0:02:23.760,0:02:28.139
0:07:07.650,0:07:11.669
definition, sort of the blueprint for definitions.
not settling down to any number. It's not...
It is what you fill
You cannot trap it near any particular number


0:02:28.139,0:02:31.570
0:07:11.669,0:07:17.280
in the details [of] and get a correct definition.
because it's all over the map between minus
So by neighborhood,
one and one. For the same reason that sin(1/x)


0:02:31.570,0:02:36.180
0:07:17.280,0:07:22.840
I mean, in this case, I would mean something
doesn't approach anything as x approaches
like (L - epsilon, L +
zero, the same reason sin x or sin(pi x) doesn't


0:02:36.180,0:02:43.180
0:07:22.840,0:07:29.840
epsilon). It is an open interval surrounding
approach anything as x approaches infinity.
L. Ok, this one. The
So, the limit for the real thing, this does


0:02:44.590,0:02:47.160
0:07:31.099,0:07:37.539
conceptual definition starts for every choice
not exist. So, this gives an example where
of neighborhood of
the real thing [the real-sense limit] doesn't


0:02:47.160,0:02:54.160
0:07:37.539,0:07:44.539
L. The domain neighborhood, I haven't really
exist and the sequence thing [sequence limit]
defined, but that is the
does exist and so here is the overall summary.


0:02:58.359,0:03:05.359
0:07:44.690,0:07:46.979
point, it is the general conceptual definition.
If the real sense limit,
There exists...what
that is this one [pointing to definition of


0:03:09.810,0:03:11.530
0:07:46.979,0:07:51.039
should come next? [ANSWER!]
real sense limit] exists, [then] the sequence
limit also exists and they're both equal.


0:03:11.530,0:03:16.530
0:07:51.039,0:07:54.419
Rui: A delta?
On the other hand, you can have a situation
Vipul: That is what the concrete definition
with the real sense limit, the limit for the


0:03:16.530,0:03:18.530
0:07:54.419,0:08:00.819
says, but what would the
function of reals doesn't exist but the sequence
conceptual thing say?
limit still exists like this set up. Right?


0:03:18.530,0:03:21.680
0:08:00.819,0:08:05.569
Rui: A neighborhood.
Now, there is a little caveat that I want
Vipul: Of what? [ANSWER!]
to add. If the real sense limit doesn't exist
 
0:08:05.569,0:08:11.069
as a finite number but it's say plus infinity
then the sequence limit also has to be plus


0:03:21.680,0:03:28.680
0:08:11.069,0:08:16.150
Rui: Of c.
infinity. If the real sense limit is minus
Vipul: Of c, of the domain. The goal of picking
infinity, then the sequence limit also has


0:03:34.639,0:03:37.970
0:08:16.150,0:08:20.330
delta is to find a
to be minus infinity. So, this type of situation,
neighborhood of c. Points to the immediate
where the real sense limit doesn't exist but


0:03:37.970,0:03:44.919
0:08:20.330,0:08:26.840
left and immediate
the sequence exists, well, will happen in
right of c. There exists a choice of neighborhood
kind of oscillatory type of situations. Where


0:03:44.919,0:03:51.919
0:08:26.840,0:08:31.409
of c such that, by
the real sense you have an oscillating thing
the way I sometimes abbreviate, such that,
and in the sequence thing on the other hand


0:03:59.850,0:04:06.109
0:08:31.409,0:08:36.330
as s.t., okay, don't get
you somehow manage to pick a bunch of points
confused by that. Okay, what next? Let's
where that oscillation doesn't create a problem.


0:04:06.109,0:04:12.309
0:08:36.330,0:08:36.789
bring out the thing. The next
Okay?
thing is for all x with |x - c| less than


0:04:12.309,0:04:19.309
0:08:36.789,0:08:43.630
... all x in the neighborhood
Now, why is this important? Well, it's important
except the point c itself. So what should
because in a lot of cases when you have to


0:04:20.040,0:04:27.040
0:08:43.630,0:08:50.630
come here? For all x in the
calculate limits of sequences, you just calculate
neighborhood of c, I put x not equal to c.
them by doing, essentially, just calculating


0:04:36.570,0:04:37.160
0:08:53.230,0:09:00.230
Is that clear?
the limits of the function defining the sequence
as a limit of a real valued function. Okay?


0:04:37.160,0:04:37.520
0:09:00.230,0:09:03.460
Rui: Yes.
So, for instance if I ask you what is limit
...


0:04:37.520,0:04:44.520
0:09:03.460,0:09:10.460
Vipul: x not equal to c in the neighborhood
Okay. I'll ask you what is limit [as] n approaches
chosen for c. The reason
infinity of n^2(n + 1)/(n^3 + 1) or something


0:04:49.310,0:04:53.360
0:09:15.200,0:09:22.200
we're excluding the point c that we take the
like that. Right? Some rational function.
limit at the point and we
You just do this calculation as if you were


0:04:53.360,0:04:55.770
0:09:25.430,0:09:29.720
just care about stuff around, we don't care
just doing a limit of a real function, function
about what is happening at
of real numbers, right? The answer you get


0:04:55.770,0:05:02.770
0:09:29.720,0:09:33.060
the point. For c...this chosen neighborhood...I
will be the correct one. If it's a finite
am writing the black
number it will be the same finite number.
 
0:05:09.880,0:05:14.440
for choices that the skeptic makes and the
red for the choices the
 
0:05:14.440,0:05:16.490
prover makes, actually that's reverse of what
I did in the other
 
0:05:16.490,0:05:21.320
video, but that's ok. They can change colors.
If you have seen that
 
0:05:21.320,0:05:24.710
limit game thing, this color pattern just
[means] ... the black
 
0:05:24.710,0:05:28.400
matches with the skeptic choices and the red
matches what the prover


0:05:28.400,0:05:32.710
0:09:33.060,0:09:37.850
chooses. If you haven't seen that, it is
In this case it will just be one. But any
not an issue. Just imagine
rational function, if the answer is finite,


0:05:32.710,0:05:35.820
0:09:37.850,0:09:44.070
it's a single color.
same answer for the sequence. If it is plus
infinity, same answer for the sequence. If


0:05:35.820,0:05:40.820
0:09:44.070,0:09:46.250
What happens next? What do we need to check
it is minus infinity, same answer as for the
in order to say this limit
sequence.


0:05:40.820,0:05:42.950
0:09:46.250,0:09:53.250
is L? So f(x) should be where?
However, if the answer you get for the real-sense
limit is oscillatory type of non existence,


0:05:42.950,0:05:44.980
0:09:54.660,0:09:59.410
Rui: In the neighborhood of L.
then that's inconclusive as far as the sequence
is concerned. You actually have to think about


0:05:44.980,0:05:48.060
0:09:59.410,0:10:05.520
Vipul: Yeah. In the concrete definition we
the sequence case and figure out for yourself
said f(x) minus L is less
what happens to the limit. Okay? If might


0:05:48.060,0:05:51.440
0:10:05.520,0:10:07.230
than epsilon. Right, but that is just stating
in
that f(x) is in the
fact be the case that the sequence limit actually


0:05:51.440,0:05:58.440
0:10:07.230,0:10:11.380
chosen neighborhood. So f(x) is in the chosen
does exist even though the real sense [limit]
neighborhood of...Now
is oscillatory. Okay.
 
</toggledisplay>
0:06:08.470,0:06:15.470
that we have this blueprint for the definition.
This is a blueprint
 
0:06:25.660,0:06:32.660
for the definition. We'll write it in blue.
What I mean is, now if I
 
0:06:34.930,0:06:40.700
ask you to define a limit, in a slightly different
context; you just
 
0:06:40.700,0:06:46.280
have to figure out in order to make this rigorous
definition. What
 
0:06:46.280,0:06:49.240
word do you need to understand the meaning
of? [ANSWER!]
 
0:06:49.240,0:06:53.780
Rui: Neighborhood.
Vipul: Neighborhood, right. That's the magic
 
0:06:53.780,0:06:59.810
word behind which I am
hiding the details. If you can understand
 
0:06:59.810,0:07:06.280
what I mean by neighborhood
then you can turn this into a concrete definition.</toggledisplay>
 
===Functions of one variable case===
 
The following definitions of neighborhood are good enough to define limits.
 
* For points in the interior of the domain, for functions of one variable: We can take an open interval centered at the point. For a point <math>c</math>, such an open interval is of the form <math>(c - t, c + t), t > 0</math>. Note that if we exclude the point <math>c</math> itself, we get <math>(c - t,c) \cup (c,c + t)</math>.
* For the point <math>+\infty</math>, for functions of one variable: We take intervals of the form <math>(a,\infty)</math>, where <math>a \in \R</math>.
* For the point <math>-\infty</math>, for functions of one variable: We can take interval of the form <math>(-\infty,a)</math>, where <math>a \in \R</math>.
 
We can now list the nine cases of limits, combining finite and infinite possibilities:
 
{| class="sortable" border="1"
! Case !! Definition
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>), we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L +\varepsilon)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = -\infty</math> || For every <math>a \in \R</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>), we have <math>f(x) < a</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (-\infty,a)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = \infty</math> || For every <math>a \in \R</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>), we have <math>f(x) > a</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (a,\infty)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to -\infty} f(x) = L</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x < a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (-\infty,a)</math>), we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L +\varepsilon)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to -\infty} f(x) = -\infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x < a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (-\infty,a)</math>), we have <math>f(x) < b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (-\infty,b)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to -\infty} f(x) = \infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x < a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (-\infty,a)</math>), we have <math>f(x) > b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (b,\infty)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = L</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x > a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>), we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L +\varepsilon)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = -\infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x > a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>), we have <math>f(x) < b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (-\infty,b)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = \infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x > a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>), we have <math>f(x) > b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (b,\infty)</math>).
|}
 
<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=EOQby7b-WrA}}</center>
 
===Limit of sequence versus real-sense limit===
 
Recall that the limit of a real-valued function to infinity is defined as follows:
 
<math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = L</math> means that:
 
* For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>
* there exists <math>a \in \R</math> (we're thinking of the neighborhood <math>(a,\infty)</math>) such that
* for all <math>x > a</math> (i.e. <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>)
* we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>).
 
Suppose now instead that <math>f</math> is a function restricted to the natural numbers. We can think of <math>f</math> as a [[sequence]], namely the sequence <math>f(1), f(2), \dots</math>. In that case:
 
<math>\lim_{n \to \infty, n \in \mathbb{N}} f(n) = L</math> (in words, the sequence converges to <math>L</math>) means that:
 
* For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>
* there exists <math>n_0 \in \mathbb{N}</math> such that
* for all <math>n \in \mathbb{N}</math> satisfying <math>n > n_0</math>,
* we have <math>|f(n) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(n) \in (L - \varepsilon, L + \varepsilon)</math>).
 
The definitions differ both in their second and third line. However, the difference in the second line (the use of a real number versus a natural number to specify the threshold for the trapping interval) is not important, i.e., we could swap these lines between the definitions without changing the sense of either definition. The key difference between the definitions lies in their third lines. In the real-sense limit definition case, we require trapping of the function value close to the claimed limit for ''all sufficiently large reals'' whereas the sequence limit definition requires trapping only for ''all sufficiently large natural numbers''.
 
To understand this distinction, consider the following: if <math>f</math> is defined on reals, and it has a real-sense limit, i.e., <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = L</math> for some <math>L \in \mathbb{R}</math>, then it must also be true that <math>\lim_{n \to \infty, n \in \mathbb{N}} f(n) = L</math>. However, it is possible for <math>f</math> to have a sequence limit but not have a real-sense limit. For instance, the function <math>f(x) := \sin(\pi x)</math> has <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x)</math> undefined but <math>\lim_{n \to \infty, n \in \mathbb{N}} f(n)</math> is zero, because <math>f</math> takes the value 0 at all integers.
 
<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=P9APtpIE4y8}}</center>


===Real-valued functions of multiple variables case===
===Real-valued functions of multiple variables case===

Latest revision as of 03:14, 25 September 2021

ORIGINAL FULL PAGE: Limit
STUDY THE TOPIC AT MULTIPLE LEVELS:
ALSO CHECK OUT: Quiz (multiple choice questions to test your understanding) |Page with videos on the topic, both embedded and linked to

This page lists a core term of calculus. The term is used widely, and a thorough understanding of its definition is critical.
See a complete list of core terminology

Motivation

Quick summary

The term "limit" in mathematics is closely related to one of the many senses in which the term "limit" is used in day-to-day English. In day-to-day English, there are two uses of the term "limit":

  • Limit as something that one approaches, or is headed toward
  • Limit as a boundary or cap that cannot be crossed or exceeded

The mathematical term "limit" refers to the first of these two meanings. In other words, the mathematical concept of limit is a formalization of the intuitive concept of limit as something that one approaches or is headed toward.

For a function , the notation:

is meant to say "the limit, as approaches , of the function value " and thus, the mathematical equality:

is meant to say "the limit, as approaches , of the function value , is ." In a rough sense, what this means is that as gets closer and closer to , eventually comes, and stays, close enough to .

Graphical interpretation

The graphical interpretation of "" is that, if we move along the graph of the function in the plane, then the graph approaches the point whether we make approach from the left or the right. However, this interpretation works well only if is continuous on the immediate left and immediate right of .

This interpretation is sometimes termed the "two finger test" where one finger is used to follow the graph for slightly less than and the other finger is used to follow the graph for slightly greater than .

The interpretation is problematic in that it is not really a definition, and fails to have computational utility for wildly oscillatory functions or functions with other forms of weird behavior.

Two key ideas

The concept of limit involves two key ideas, both of which help explain why the definition is structured the way it is:

  • Arbitrarily close: The limit depends on how things behave arbitrarily close to the point involved. The notion of "arbitrarily close" is difficult to quantify non-mathematically, but what it means is that any fixed distance is too much. For instance, if doing , we can take points close to 2 such as 2.1, 2.01, 2.001, 2.0001, 2.0000001, 2.000000000000001. Any of these points, viewed in and of itself, is too far from 2 to offer any meaningful information. It is only the behavior in the limit, as we get arbitrarily close, that matters.
  • Trapping of the function close by: For a function to have a certain limit at a point, it is not sufficient to have the function value come close to that point. Rather, for to hold, it is necessary that for very close to , the function value is trapped close to . It is not enough that it keeps oscillating between being close to and being far from .
{{#widget:YouTube|id=iZ_fCNvYa9U}}

Full timed transcript: [SHOW MORE]

Checkpoint questions:

  • To figure out the limit of a function at , does the value of the function at matter? Does the value of the function at matter? ? How close is close enough?
  • What is the limit ? What's the intuitive idea behind the reasoning? More formal versions of this reasoning will be introduced after we have seen the definition.

Definition for finite limit for function of one variable

Two-sided limit

Suppose is a function of one variable and is a point such that is defined to the immediate left and immediate right of (note that may or may not be defined at ). In other words, there exists some value such that is defined on .

For a given value , we say that:

if the following holds:

For every , there exists such that for all satisfying , we have .

The definition is broken down into its four clauses below:

Clause Interval description Symbol explanations
For every The symbol is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon".
Although the definition customarily uses the letter , it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
there exists such that The symbol is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta"
Although the definition customarily uses the letter , it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
for all satisfying The symbol stands for the absolute value function.
stands for "is in the set" so the statements should be read as saying that is in the set described in the two equivalent ways.
stands for the union, so the statement that should be parsed as saying that or
stands for set difference, so the statement can be parsed as saying that could be any value in except . The point is excluded because we do not want the value of at to affect the limit notion.
we have The symbol stands for the absolute value function.
stands for "is in the set" so the statement should be read as saying that is in the set .

The limit (also called the two-sided limit) is defined as a value such that . By the uniqueness theorem for limits, there is at most one value of for which . Hence, it makes sense to talk of the limit when it exists.

{{#widget:YouTube|id=0vy0Fslxi-k}}

Full timed transcript: [SHOW MORE]

Checkpoint questions:

  • In order to make sense of where must the function be defined? Must be defined at ? If exists, what can we say about its value?
  • What's the formal definition of limit, i.e., what does mean?
  • How would you write the formal definition of limit using intervals rather than absolute value inequalities to describe where and should be?
  • Why is there a "" in the inequality in the definition? Why doesn't a appear in the part of the definition?
  • In order to be able to talk of the limit , what additional fact do we need beyond the definition of what means?

Left-hand limit

Suppose is a function of one variable and is a point such that is defined on the immediate left of (note that may or may not be defined at ). In other words, there exists some value such that is defined on .

For a given value , we say that:

if the following holds:

For every , there exists such that for all satisfying , we have .

The definition is broken down into its four clauses below:

Clause Interval description Symbol explanations
For every The symbol is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon".
Although the definition customarily uses the letter , it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
there exists such that The symbol is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta"
Although the definition customarily uses the letter , it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
for all satisfying The symbol stands for the absolute value function.
stands for "is in the set" so the statements should be read as saying that is in the set describing the immediate -left of .
we have The symbol stands for the absolute value function.
stands for "is in the set" so the statement should be read as saying that is in the set .

The left-hand limit (acronym LHL) is defined as a value such that . By the uniqueness theorem for limits (one-sided version), there is at most one value of for which . Hence, it makes sense to talk of the left hand limit when it exists.

Right-hand limit

Suppose is a function of one variable and is a point such that is defined on the immediate right of (note that may or may not be defined at ). In other words, there exists some value such that is defined on .

For a given value , we say that:

if the following holds:

For every , there exists such that for all satisfying , we have .

The definition is broken down into its four clauses below:

Clause Interval description Symbol explanations
For every The symbol is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon".
Although the definition customarily uses the letter , it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
there exists such that The symbol is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta"
Although the definition customarily uses the letter , it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
for all satisfying The symbol stands for the absolute value function.
stands for "is in the set" so the statements should be read as saying that is in the set describing the immediate -right of .
we have The symbol stands for the absolute value function.
stands for "is in the set" so the statement should be read as saying that is in the set .

The right-hand limit (acronym RHL) is defined as a value such that . By the uniqueness theorem for limits (one-sided version), there is at most one value of for which . Hence, it makes sense to talk of the right hand limit when it exists.

Side-by-side comparison of the definitions

Clause for two-sided limit Clause for left hand limit Clause for right hand limit Comments
For every For every For every identical so far
there exists such that there exists such that there exists such that still identical
for all satisfying , i.e., for all satisfying , i.e., for all satisfying , i.e., this is the part that differs, in so far as it is the direction of domain approach that differs between the definitions.
we have , i.e., we have , i.e., we have , i.e., this part is again identical. Note that the left versus right is only about the direction of approach in the domain, not about the direction of approach of the function value.
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Checkpoint questions:

  • In order to make sense of , where must the function be defined? Must be defined at ? If exists, what can we say about its value?
  • The definitions of left hand limit, right hand limit and ordinary (two-sided) limit are pretty similar. There is only one clause that differs across the three definitions. What clause is this, and how does it differ across the definitions? Explain both in inequality notation and in interval notation.
  • Why should we be careful when dealing with one-sided limits in the context of function compositions?

Relation between the limit notions

The two-sided limit exists if and only if (both the left hand limit and right hand limit exist) and (they are equal to each other).

Explicitly, exists if all three of these conditions hold:

  • exists.
  • exists.
  • .

Moreover, in the event that both one-sided limits exist and are equal, the two-sided limit is equal to both of them.

Further, a particular value of works for a particular value of in the two-sided limit definition if and only if it works in both the left hand limit definition and the right hand limit definition.

Definition of finite limit for function of one variable in terms of a game

The formal definitions of limit, as well as of one-sided limit, can be reframed in terms of a game. This is a special instance of an approach that turns any statement with existential and universal quantifiers into a game.

Two-sided limit

Consider the limit statement, with specified numerical values of and and a specified function :

Note that there is one trivial sense in which the above statement can be false, or rather, meaningless, namely, that is not defined on the immediate left or immediate right of . In that case, the limit statement above is false, but moreover, it is meaningless to even consider the notion of limit. We therefore omit this sense from consideration and consider instead only the situation where is defined on the immediate left and immediate right of .

The game is between two players, a Prover whose goal is to prove that the limit statement is true, and a Skeptic (also called a Verifier or sometimes a Disprover) whose goal is to show that the statement is false. The game has three moves:

  1. First, the skeptic chooses , or equivalently, chooses the target interval in which the skeptic is challenging the prover to trap the function.
  2. Then, the prover chooses , or equivalently, chooses the interval .
  3. Then, the skeptic chooses a value satisfying , or equivalently, , which is the same as .

Now, if (i.e., ), the prover wins. Otherwise, the skeptic wins.

We say that the limit statement

is true if the prover has a winning strategy for this game. The winning strategy for the prover basically constitutes a strategy to choose an appropriate in terms of the chosen by the skeptic. Thus, it is an expression of as a function of . Verbally, the goal of the prover is to choose a value of so that when the input is restricted to being within distance of , the output is trapped to within distance of the claimed limit .

We say that the limit statement

is false if the skeptic has a winning strategy for this game. The winning strategy for the skeptic involves a choice of , and a strategy that chooses a value of (constrained in the specified interval) based on the prover's choice of .

Let's review the definition in conjunction with the game along with a deeper semantic understanding of the steps:

Step no. Clause of definition Who moves? What is chosen? Constraints on the choice Comment
1 For every Skeptic Must be positive The "for every" corresponds to the idea that the move is made by the side that does not have a winning strategy, because we want to argue that the side that does have a winning strategy can win no matter what.
2 there exists such that Prover Must be positive The "there exists" corresponds to the idea that the move is made by the side that has a winning strategy, because that side gets to choose a favorable value of the variable (in this case ).
3 for all satisfying , Skeptic Must be within the interval The "for all" corresponds to the idea that the move is made by the side that does not have a winning strategy, because we want to argue that the side that does have a winning strategy can win no matter what.
4 we have Neither; it's time for the judge to decide -- If (the condition that we desire) the prover wins. Else, the skeptic wins.

Slight subtlety regarding domain of definition: [SHOW MORE]

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Negation of limit statement and non-existence of limit

We now consider the explicit description of the definition for the case that the skeptic has a winning strategy for the limit game for , i.e., for the limit statement being false.

In words, the definition is:

There exists such that for every , there exists satisfying and .

Let's review the definition in conjunction with the game along with a deeper semantic understanding of the steps:

Step no. Clause of definition for original limit statement (i.e., prover has a winning strategy) Clause of definition for skeptic having a winning strategy Who moves? What is chosen? Constraints on the choice Comment
1 For every There exists such that Skeptic Must be positive Whether we use "for every" or "there exists" depends on who we're rooting for.
2 there exists such that for every , Prover Must be positive Whether we use "for every" or "there exists" depends on who we're rooting for.
3 for all satisfying , there exists satisfying and Skeptic Must be within the interval Whether we use "for every" or "there exists" depends on who we're rooting for.
4 we have . Neither; it's time for the judge to decide -- If , the prover wins. Else, the skeptic wins. The conditions are negatives of one another.
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Non-existence of limit

The statement does not exist could mean one of two things:

  1. is not defined around , i.e., there is no for which is defined on . In this case, it does not even make sense to try taking a limit.
  2. is defined around , except possibly at , i.e., there is for which is defined on . So, it does make sense to try taking a limit. However, the limit still does not exist.

The formulation of the latter case is as follows:

For every , there exists such that for every , there exists satisfying and such that .

We can think of this in terms of a slight modification of the limit game, where, in our modification, there is an extra initial move by the prover to propose a value for the limit. The limit does not exist if the skeptic has a winning strategy for this modified game.

An example of a function that does not have a limit at a specific point is the sine of reciprocal function. Explicitly, the limit:

does not exist. The skeptic's winning strategy is as follows: regardless of the chosen by the prover, pick a fixed (independent of , so can be decided in advance of the game -- note that the skeptic could even pick and the strategy would still work). After the prover has chosen a value , find a value such that the function value lies outside . This is possible because the interval has width , hence cannot cover the entire interval , which has width 2. However, the range of the function on is all of .

Crucially, the inability of the prover to trap the function value close to any point as is the reason the limit fails to exist.

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Strategic aspects

The strategy of small

In the game formulation of the limit, the following loose statements are true:

  • "Smaller is smarter" for the skeptic, i.e., the smaller the choice of , the better the outlook is for the skeptic to win.
  • "Smaller is smarter" for the prover, i.e., the smaller the choice of , the better the outlook is for the prover to win.

In other words, each side benefits by making the crucial move of that side as small as possible. However, there does not exist any single arbitrarily small number -- this is related to the observation in the motivation section that there is no such thing as a single arbitrarily close number. Thus, saying "choose as small a value as possible" is not a coherent strategy. What we can say is the following:

  • If a value of works for a given value of , the same value of also works for larger choices of .
  • If a value of works for a given value of , smaller values of also work for the same choice of .

Prover's strategy revisited

The prover, in choosing a winning strategy, must specify a rule that can determine a value of that works in terms of the value of specified by the skeptic. In other words, the prover must have a way of specifying as a function of .

The skeptic also chooses in the next move. However, the prover has no way of knowing the value of that the skeptic plans to pick. Thus, in order for the prover to have a winning strategy, the prover's choice of should be such that no matter what the skeptic picks, the prover wins.

Skeptic's strategy revisited

The skeptic, in choosing a winning strategy, must specify the value of and then specify how to pick a value of that works. When picking the value of , the skeptic does not know what the prover will pick. Thus, the skeptic's choice of cannot be dependent on the prover's subsequent choice of .

However, when picking the value of , the skeptic is aware of (and constrained by) the prover's choice of .

Misconceptions

Most misconceptions associated with the formal definition of limit have to do with the ordering of the moves in the game, who's in charge of what move, and what information each person has at the time of making the move. We describe some common misconceptions below.

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Strongly telepathic prover

Spot the error in this:

Consider the limit problem . The proof corresponding to this problem would involve a game between a prover and a skeptic. To show that the limit statement is true, it suffices to exhibit a winning strategy for the prover for the game. The strategy is as follows. Pick . Let's prove that this works.

Specific claim: For any skeptic-picked , if the prover picks such that , then regardless of the that the skeptic picks with , we have .

Proof of claim: We have:

The error is as follows: [SHOW MORE]

Mildly telepathic prover

Spot the error in this:

Consider the limit problem:

We want to show that
For this game, we need to exhibit a winning strategy for the prover. The winning strategy is as follows. The skeptic first chooses . The prover now makes two cases. If the skeptic is planning to pick a rational value of , then the prover chooses the strategy . If the skeptic is planning to choose an irrational value of , then the prover can pick any .
Clearly, the prover's strategy works in both cases, so we have a winning strategy.

Th error is as follows: [SHOW MORE]

You say you want a replay?

Spot the error in this:

Consider the limit problem . Let's think of this in terms of an game. The skeptic begins by picking . The prover chooses . The skeptic now chooses . This value of is within the -distance of . It's now checked that is within -distance of the claimed limit . The prover has thus won the game, and we have established the truth of the limit statement.

The error is as follows: [SHOW MORE]

Playing to lose

Spot the error in this:

Here's an easy proof that . We need to show that the prover has a winning strategy for the game. Let's say the skeptic starts out by picking . The prover then picks . It can now easily be verified that for , , because the function is trapped within . Thus, the prover has succeeded in trapping the function within the $\varepsilon$-interval specified by the skeptic, and hence won the game. The limit statement is therefore true.

The error is as follows: [SHOW MORE]

Conceptual definition and various cases

Formulation of conceptual definition

Below is the conceptual definition of limit. Suppose is a function defined in a neighborhood of the point , except possibly at the point itself. We say that:

if:

  • For every choice of neighborhood of (where the term neighborhood is suitably defined)
  • there exists a choice of neighborhood of (where the term neighborhood is suitably defined) such that
  • for all that are in the chosen neighborhood of
  • is in the chosen neighborhood of .
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Functions of one variable case

The following definitions of neighborhood are good enough to define limits.

  • For points in the interior of the domain, for functions of one variable: We can take an open interval centered at the point. For a point , such an open interval is of the form . Note that if we exclude the point itself, we get .
  • For the point , for functions of one variable: We take intervals of the form , where .
  • For the point , for functions of one variable: We can take interval of the form , where .

We can now list the nine cases of limits, combining finite and infinite possibilities:

Case Definition
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
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Limit of sequence versus real-sense limit

Recall that the limit of a real-valued function to infinity is defined as follows:

means that:

  • For every
  • there exists (we're thinking of the neighborhood ) such that
  • for all (i.e. )
  • we have (i.e., ).

Suppose now instead that is a function restricted to the natural numbers. We can think of as a sequence, namely the sequence . In that case:

(in words, the sequence converges to ) means that:

  • For every
  • there exists such that
  • for all satisfying ,
  • we have (i.e., ).

The definitions differ both in their second and third line. However, the difference in the second line (the use of a real number versus a natural number to specify the threshold for the trapping interval) is not important, i.e., we could swap these lines between the definitions without changing the sense of either definition. The key difference between the definitions lies in their third lines. In the real-sense limit definition case, we require trapping of the function value close to the claimed limit for all sufficiently large reals whereas the sequence limit definition requires trapping only for all sufficiently large natural numbers.

To understand this distinction, consider the following: if is defined on reals, and it has a real-sense limit, i.e., for some , then it must also be true that . However, it is possible for to have a sequence limit but not have a real-sense limit. For instance, the function has undefined but is zero, because takes the value 0 at all integers.

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Real-valued functions of multiple variables case

We consider the multiple input variables as a vector input variable, as the definition is easier to frame from this perspective.

The correct notion of neighborhood is as follows: for a point , we define the neighborhood parametrized by a positive real number as the open ball of radius centered at , i.e., the set of all points such that the distance from to is less than . This distance is the same as the norm of the difference vector . The norm is sometimes denoted . This open ball is sometimes denoted .

Suppose is a real-valued (i.e., scalar) function of a vector variable . Suppose is a point such that is defined "around" , except possibly at . In other words, there is an open ball centered at such that is defined everywhere on that open ball, except possibly at .

With these preliminaries out of the way, we can define the notion of limit. We say that:

if the following holds:

  • For every
  • there exists such that
  • for all satisfying (i.e., is in a ball of radius centered at but not the point itself -- note that the notation is for the norm, or length, of a vector)
  • we have . Note that and are both scalars, so the here is the usual absolute value function.
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