Limit: Difference between revisions

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{{perspectives}}
{{perspectives}}
 
{{core term}}
==Motivation==
==Motivation==


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This interpretation is sometimes termed the "two finger test" where one finger is used to follow the graph for <math>x</math> slightly less than <math>c</math> and the other finger is used to follow the graph for <math>x</math> slightly greater than <math>c</math>.
This interpretation is sometimes termed the "two finger test" where one finger is used to follow the graph for <math>x</math> slightly less than <math>c</math> and the other finger is used to follow the graph for <math>x</math> slightly greater than <math>c</math>.
The interpretation is problematic in that it is not really a definition, and fails to have computational utility for wildly oscillatory functions or functions with other forms of weird behavior.


===Two key ideas===
===Two key ideas===
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epsilon-delta definition. That was just an intuitive idea,
epsilon-delta definition. This is just an intuitive idea,
and a few somewhat
and a few somewhat


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number c, f(x) approaches some number L, and
number c, f(x) approaches some number L, and
that’s what this is:
that's what this is:


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closer and closer to c, f(x) is sort of hanging
closer and closer to c, f(x) is sort of hanging
around L. It’s coming
around L. It's coming


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word limit is used in the English language:
word limit is used in the English language:
One meaning its limit in
One meaning is limit in


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language, which is limit as a boundary or
language, which is limit as a boundary or as a cap or as a bound.
a as a gap or as a bound.


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food vault or something, and that sense of
fruit bowl or something, and that sense of
limit is not used ... for
limit is not used ... for


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so we don’t get confused in mathematics.
so we don't get confused in mathematics.
As I said, the idea is that
As I said, the idea is that


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smaller and smaller. This doesn’t quite
smaller and smaller. This doesn't quite
work unless your function is
work unless your function is


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doesn’t really … it's not very clear what
doesn't really ... it's not very clear what
we mean here without further
we mean here without further


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which you may have seen in school. (well,
which you may have seen in school. (well,
if you’ve seen limits in
if you've seen limits in


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This is x of c, so this is the value x of
This is x is c, so this is the value x is
c, and this is a graph of
c, and this is the graph of


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values … so the function, the graph of it,
values ... so the function, the graph of it,
the function values are
the function values are


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their prospective Y coordinates, so this is
their respective y coordinates, so this is
x, this is Y, this is the
x, this is y, this is the


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graph. Y is f(x). When x is to the initial
graph. y is f(x). When x is to the immediate
left of c, the value, Y
left of c, the value, y


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value, the Y approach f(x) value is … are
value, the y equals f(x) value is ... are
these values, so this or
these values, so this or


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this. As x approaches c from the left, the
this. As x approaches c from the left, the
Y values are approaching
y values are approaching


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the Y coordinate of this open circle.
the y coordinate of this open circle.


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approaching c from the left, then the limit
approaching c from the left, then the limit
would be the Y coordinate
would be the y coordinate


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right, so approaches from here … the Y coordinate
right, so approaches from here ... the y coordinate
is approaching the Y
is approaching the y


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right, that’s plus of f(x),
right, that's plus of f(x),
is L2, and the value f of c is some third
is L2, and the value f of c is some third


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number. We don’t know what
number. We don't know what
it is, but f of c, L1, L2, are in this case
it is, but f of c, L1, L2, are in this case


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concept of limit is usually a concept of two
concept of limit is usually a concept of two
sides of limit, which
sided limit, which


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doesn’t matter, so whether the value exists,
doesn't matter, so whether the value exists,
what it is, does not
what it is, does not


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sort of that. For the left-hand limit, you
sort of that: for the left-hand limit, you
basically sort of follow
basically sort of follow


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get the Y coordinate of that. For the right-hand
get the y coordinate of that. For the right-hand
limit, you follow
limit, you follow


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the graph on the right and see where they're
the graph on the right and see where we're
headed to, and add the Y
headed to, and get the y


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values are different. You could also have
value is different. You could also have
a situation where the value
a situation where the value


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doesn’t exist at all. The function isn't
doesn't exist at all. The function isn't
defined at the point, but
defined at the point, but


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the limits still exist because the left-hand
the limit still exists because the left-hand
limit and right-hand
limit and right-hand


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Now, all these examples, they're sort of a
Now, all these examples, there's sort of a
crude way of putting this
crude way of putting this


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that’s headed to, and use another finger
that's headed to, and use another finger
to trace the curve on the
to trace the curve on the


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0:08:28.259,0:08:33.640
immediate right and see where that’s headed
immediate right and see where that's headed
to, and if your two
to, and if your two


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fingers can meet each other, then the place
fingers can meet each other, then the place
where they meet, the Y
where they meet, the y


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0:08:38.270,0:08:41.870
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is here, and then the limit doesn’t exist
is here, and then the limit doesn't exist
because the left-hand limit
because the left-hand limit


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This, hopefully, you have seen in great detail
This, hopefully, you have seen in great detail
where you’ve done
when you've done


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this two-finger test is not really a good
this two-finger test is not really a good
definition of limit. What’s
definition of limit. What's


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0:09:11.850,0:09:13.600
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hard, and it doesn’t really solve any problem.
hard, and it doesn't really solve any problem.
It's not really a
It's not really a


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things could give us trouble? Why do we need
things could give us trouble? Why do we need
to define our
to refine our


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0:09:56.990,0:10:03.209
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have to develop a pure cut concept of limit
have to develop a clear cut concept of limit
to be able to answer this
to be able to answer this


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0:10:32.920,0:10:39.920
just equal secant x. It's not that. It's sine
just equal cosecant x. It's not that. It's sine
of 1 over x, and this
of 1 over x, and this


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that that’s not defined, isn't good enough
that that's not defined, isn't good enough
for us to say the limit
for us to say the limit


0:10:52.660,0:10:55.139
0:10:52.660,0:10:55.139
doesn't [inaudible 00:10:36] we actually have
doesn't exist; we actually have
to try to make a picture
to try to make a picture


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0:10:55.139,0:10:57.660
of this and try to understand what the limit
of this and try to understand what the limit
is here.
is going to be.


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0:10:57.660,0:11:04.660
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0:11:12.560,0:11:19.560
will sine 1 over x look? Let's start of where
will sine 1 over x look? Let's start off where
x is nearly infinity.
x is nearly infinity.


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therefore slightly positive. It's like here.
therefore slightly positive. It's like here.
It's going to start up
It's going to start off


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0:11:36.879,0:11:42.810
with an S [inaudible 00:11:21] at zero. Then
with an asymptote, a horizontal asymptote, at zero.  
it's going to sort of go
Then it's going to sort of go


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0:11:42.810,0:11:49.420
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1 over 3 pi, and so on. What’s going to
1 over 3 pi, and so on. What's going to
happen is that near zero it's
happen is that near zero it's


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I’m not being very accurate here, but just
I'm not being very accurate here, but just
the idea. The pen or
the idea. The pen or


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0:14:18.050,0:14:21.579
this, this … you're sort of getting close
this, this ... you're sort of getting close
to here but still not quite
to zero but still not quite


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0:14:21.579,0:14:28.579
reaching it. It's … where are you headed?
reaching it. It's ... where are you headed?
It's kind of a little
It's kind of a little


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0:14:31.610,0:14:36.879
unclear. Notice, it's not that just because
unclear. Notice, it's not that just because
we plug in zero doesn’t
we plug in zero doesn't


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0:14:36.879,0:14:39.170
make sense, the limit doesn't... That’s
make sense, the limit doesn't... That's
not the issue. The issue is
not the issue. The issue is


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0:14:39.170,0:14:43.249
that after you make the graph, it's unclear
that after you make the graph, it's unclear
what’s happening.
what's happening.


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0:14:43.249,0:14:49.329
One kind of logic is that the other limit
One kind of logic is that, yeah, the limit
is zero? Why? Well, it's
is zero? Why? Well, it's


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0:14:49.329,0:14:52.949
kind of balance around here. It's a bit above
kind of balanced around zero, right? It's a bit
and below, and it keeps
above and below, and it keeps


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0:14:52.949,0:14:59.949
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0:15:12.459,0:15:17.449
If you think of limit as something that’s
If you think of limit as something it's
approaching, then as x
approaching, then as x


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zero, any small … this you make around zero,
zero, any small ... this you make around zero,
the graph is going to
the graph is going to


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oscillating with the minus 1 and 1. However,
oscillating within [-1,1]. However
smaller interval you
small an interval you


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0:15:50.300,0:15:54.540
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close and stay close. So that’s actually
close and stay close. So that's actually
key idea number two we have
key idea number two we have


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here the function … for the function to
here the function ... for the function to
have a limit at the point, the
have a limit at the point, the


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0:16:45.079,0:16:49.459
This is, therefore, it doesn’t have a limit
This is, therefore, it doesn't have a limit
at zero because the
at zero because the


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0:16:54.420,0:17:01.059
trap the function values. You cannot say that…
trap the function values. You cannot say that...
you cannot trap the
you cannot trap the


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0:17:30.330,0:17:33.890
need to remember is that the function doesn’t
need to remember is that the function doesn't
just need to come close
just need to come close


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0:18:30.550,0:18:37.550
of … what’s close enough? Is 2.1 close
of ... what's close enough? Is 2.1 close
enough? No, that’s too far.
enough? No, that's too far.


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0:18:38.750,0:18:43.380
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Now, if you weren’t a mathematician, you
Now, if you weren't a mathematician, you
would probably say, "Yes,
would probably say, "Yes,


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this picture, and I change it to, let's say
this picture, and I change it to, let's say
… so I replace this
... so I replace this


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0:20:05.940,0:20:11.410
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0:20:32.040,0:20:35.000
behavior sort of at this time that point or
behavior, sort of at that point or
farther away than that
farther away than that


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0:20:35.000,0:20:42.000
point, then the behavior close to 2 doesn’t
point, then the behavior close to 2 doesn't
get affected. That’s the
get affected. That's the


0:20:42.820,0:20:46.660
0:20:42.820,0:20:46.660
other key idea here. Actually I did these
other key idea here. Actually I did these
in [inaudible 00:20:30].
in reverse order.


0:20:46.660,0:20:52.060
0:20:46.660,0:20:52.060
That’s how it is coming, actually, but I'll
That's how it was coming naturally, but I'll
just say it again.
just say it again.


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0:20:56.570,0:21:00.210
doesn’t depend on the behavior at any single
doesn't depend on the behavior at any single
specific other point. It
specific other point. It


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0:21:19.790,0:21:26.790
tracked near the point for the limit notion
trapped near the point for the limit notion
to be true. This type of
to be true. This type of


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0:21:40.590,0:21:47.590
strip. In that case, the limit doesn’t exist.
strip. In that case, the limit doesn't exist.
In subsequent videos,
In subsequent videos,


0:21:48.550,0:21:54.630
0:21:48.550,0:21:54.630
we'll see Epsilon definition, we'll do a bit
we'll see the epsilon delta definition, we'll do a bit
of formalism to that, and
of formalism to that, and


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understanding.</toggledisplay>
understanding.</toggledisplay>


'''Checkpoint questions''':
* To figure out the limit of a function at <math>2</math>, does the value of the function at <math>2.1</math> matter? Does the value of the function at <math>2.01</math> matter? <math>2.001</math>? How close is close enough?
* What is the limit <math>\lim_{x \to 0} \sin(1/x)</math>? What's the intuitive idea behind the reasoning? More formal versions of this reasoning will be introduced after we have seen the <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> definition.


==Definition for finite limit for function of one variable==
==Definition for finite limit for function of one variable==
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<math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>
<math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>


if the following holds (the single sentence is broken down into multiple points to make it clearer):
if the following holds:
 
{{quotation|For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math>, we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math>.}}


* For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> (the symbol <math>\varepsilon</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon")
The definition is broken down into its four clauses below:
* there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that (the symbol <math>\delta</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta")
 
* for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (explicitly, <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c, c+ \delta) = (c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math>),
{| class="sortable" border="1"
* we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (explicitly, <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>).
! Clause !! Interval description !! Symbol explanations
|-
| For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || <math>\varepsilon \in (0,\infty)</math> || The symbol <math>\varepsilon</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon".<br>Although the definition customarily uses the letter <math>\varepsilon</math>, it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
|-
| there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || <math>\delta \in (0,\infty)</math> || The symbol <math>\delta</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta"<br>Although the definition customarily uses the letter <math>\varepsilon</math>, it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
|-
| for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> || <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c, c+ \delta) = (c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math> || The symbol <math>| \ \  |</math> stands for the [[absolute value function]].<br><math>\in</math> stands for "is in the set" so the statements should be read as saying that <math>x</math> is in the set described in the two equivalent ways.<br><math>\cup</math> stands for the union, so the statement that <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c, c+ \delta)</math> should be parsed as saying that <math>x \in (c - \delta,c)</math> ''or'' <math>x \in (c, c + \delta)</math><br><math>\setminus</math> stands for set difference, so the statement <math>x \in (c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math> can be parsed as saying that <math>x</math> could be any value in <math>(c - \delta, c + \delta)</math> '''except''' <math>c</math>. The point <math>c</math> is excluded because we do not want the value of <math>f</math> at <math>c</math> to affect the limit notion.
|-
| we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> || <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> || The symbol <math>| \ \  |</math> stands for the [[absolute value function]].<br><math>\in</math> stands for "is in the set" so the statement should be read as saying that <math>f(x)</math> is in the set <math>(L - \varepsilon, L + \varepsilon)</math>.
|}


The '''limit''' (also called the '''two-sided limit''') <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x)</math> is defined as a value <math>L \in \R</math> such that <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>. By the [[uniqueness theorem for limits]], there is at most one value of <math>L \in \R</math> for which <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>. Hence, it makes sense to talk of ''the'' limit when it exists.
The '''limit''' (also called the '''two-sided limit''') <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x)</math> is defined as a value <math>L \in \R</math> such that <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>. By the [[uniqueness theorem for limits]], there is at most one value of <math>L \in \R</math> for which <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>. Hence, it makes sense to talk of ''the'' limit when it exists.
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L that's called the limit.</toggledisplay>
L that's called the limit.</toggledisplay>


''Note'': Although the definition customarily uses the letters <math>\varepsilon</math> and <math>\delta</math>, any other letters can be used, as long as these letters are different from each other and from the letters already in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
'''Checkpoint questions''':
 
* In order to make sense of <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> where must the function <math>f</math> be defined? Must <math>f</math> be defined ''at'' <math>c</math>? If <math>f(c)</math> exists, what can we say about its value?
* What's the formal definition of limit, i.e., what does <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> mean?
* How would you write the formal definition of limit using intervals rather than absolute value inequalities to describe where <math>x</math> and <math>f(x)</math> should be?
* Why is there a "<math>0 < </math>" in the inequality <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> in the <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> definition? Why doesn't a <math>0 < </math> appear in the <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> part of the definition?
* In order to be able to talk of ''the'' limit <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x)</math>, what additional fact do we need beyond the definition of what <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> means?


===Left hand limit===
===Left-hand limit===


Suppose <math>f</math> is a [[function]] of one variable and <math>c \in \R</math> is a point such that <math>f</math> is defined on the immediate left of <math>c</math> (note that <math>f</math> may or may not be defined at <math>c</math>). In other words, there exists some value <math>t  > 0</math> such that <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c-t,c)</math>.
Suppose <math>f</math> is a [[function]] of one variable and <math>c \in \R</math> is a point such that <math>f</math> is defined on the immediate left of <math>c</math> (note that <math>f</math> may or may not be defined at <math>c</math>). In other words, there exists some value <math>t  > 0</math> such that <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c-t,c)</math>.
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<math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math>
<math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math>


if the following holds (the single sentence is broken down into multiple points to make it clearer):
if the following holds:
 
{{quotation|For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < c - x < \delta</math>, we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math>.}}
 
The definition is broken down into its four clauses below:


* For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>
{| class="sortable" border="1"
* there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that
! Clause !! Interval description !! Symbol explanations
* for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < c - x < \delta</math> (explicitly, <math>x \in (c - \delta,c)</math>),
|-
* we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (explicitly, <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>.
| For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || <math>\varepsilon \in (0,\infty)</math> || The symbol <math>\varepsilon</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon".<br>Although the definition customarily uses the letter <math>\varepsilon</math>, it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
|-
| there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || <math>\delta \in (0,\infty)</math> || The symbol <math>\delta</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta"<br>Although the definition customarily uses the letter <math>\varepsilon</math>, it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
|-
| for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < c - x < \delta</math> || <math>x \in (c - \delta,c)</math> || The symbol <math>| \ \  |</math> stands for the [[absolute value function]].<br><math>\in</math> stands for "is in the set" so the statements should be read as saying that <math>x</math> is in the set <math>(c - \delta,c)</math> describing the immediate <math>\delta</math>-left of <math>c</math>.
|-
| we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> || <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> || The symbol <math>| \ \  |</math> stands for the [[absolute value function]].<br><math>\in</math> stands for "is in the set" so the statement should be read as saying that <math>f(x)</math> is in the set <math>(L - \varepsilon, L + \varepsilon)</math>.
|}


The '''left hand limit''' (acronym '''LHL''') <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x)</math> is defined as a value <math>L \in \R</math> such that <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math>. By the [[uniqueness theorem for limits]] (one-sided version), there is at most one value of <math>L \in \R</math> for which <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math>. Hence, it makes sense to talk of ''the'' left hand limit when it exists.
The '''left-hand limit''' (acronym '''LHL''') <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x)</math> is defined as a value <math>L \in \R</math> such that <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math>. By the [[uniqueness theorem for limits]] (one-sided version), there is at most one value of <math>L \in \R</math> for which <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math>. Hence, it makes sense to talk of ''the'' left hand limit when it exists.


===Right hand limit===
===Right-hand limit===


Suppose <math>f</math> is a [[function]] of one variable and <math>c \in \R</math> is a point such that <math>f</math> is defined on the immediate right of <math>c</math> (note that <math>f</math> may or may not be defined at <math>c</math>). In other words, there exists some value <math>t  > 0</math> such that <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c,c+t)</math>.
Suppose <math>f</math> is a [[function]] of one variable and <math>c \in \R</math> is a point such that <math>f</math> is defined on the immediate right of <math>c</math> (note that <math>f</math> may or may not be defined at <math>c</math>). In other words, there exists some value <math>t  > 0</math> such that <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c,c+t)</math>.
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<math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</math>
<math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</math>


if the following holds (the single sentence is broken down into multiple points to make it clearer):
if the following holds:
 
{{quotation|For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < x - c < \delta</math>, we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math>.}}
 
The definition is broken down into its four clauses below:


* For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>
{| class="sortable" border="1"
* there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that
! Clause !! Interval description !! Symbol explanations
* for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < x - c < \delta</math> (explicitly, <math>x \in (c,c + \delta)</math>),
|-
* we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (explicitly, <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>.
| For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || <math>\varepsilon \in (0,\infty)</math> || The symbol <math>\varepsilon</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon".<br>Although the definition customarily uses the letter <math>\varepsilon</math>, it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
|-
| there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || <math>\delta \in (0,\infty)</math> || The symbol <math>\delta</math> is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta"<br>Although the definition customarily uses the letter <math>\varepsilon</math>, it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
|-
| for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < x - c < \delta</math> || <math>x \in (c,c + \delta)</math> || The symbol <math>| \ \  |</math> stands for the [[absolute value function]].<br><math>\in</math> stands for "is in the set" so the statements should be read as saying that <math>x</math> is in the set <math>(c,c + \delta)</math> describing the immediate <math>\delta</math>-right of <math>c</math>.
|-
| we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> || <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> || The symbol <math>| \ \  |</math> stands for the [[absolute value function]].<br><math>\in</math> stands for "is in the set" so the statement should be read as saying that <math>f(x)</math> is in the set <math>(L - \varepsilon, L + \varepsilon)</math>.
|}
 
The '''right-hand limit''' (acronym '''RHL''') <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x)</math> is defined as a value <math>L \in \R</math> such that <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</math>. By the [[uniqueness theorem for limits]] (one-sided version), there is at most one value of <math>L \in \R</math> for which <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</matH>. Hence, it makes sense to talk of ''the'' right hand limit when it exists.
 
===Side-by-side comparison of the definitions===


The '''right hand limit''' (acronym '''RHL''') <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x)</math> is defined as a value <math>L \in \R</math> such that <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</math>. By the [[uniqueness theorem for limits]] (one-sided version), there is at most one value of <math>L \in \R</math> for which <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</matH>. Hence, it makes sense to talk of ''the'' right hand limit when it exists.
{| class="sortable" border="1"
! Clause for two-sided limit <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> !! Clause for left hand limit <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math> !! Clause for right hand limit <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x) = L</math>!! Comments
|-
| For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || identical so far
|-
| there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || still identical
|-
| for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math>, i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math> || for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < c - x < \delta</math>, i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c)</math> || for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < x - c < \delta</math>, i.e., <math>x \in (c,c + \delta)</math> || this is the part that differs, in so far as it is the direction of domain approach that differs between the definitions.
|-
| we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math>, i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> || we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math>, i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> || we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math>, i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> || this part is again identical. Note that the left versus right is only about the direction of approach in the domain, not about the direction of approach of the function value.
|}


<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=qBjqc78KGx0}}</center>
<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=qBjqc78KGx0}}</center>
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0:11:07.000,0:11:09.000
0:11:07.000,0:11:09.000
Okay? [END!]</toggledisplay>
Okay? [END!]</toggledisplay>
'''Checkpoint questions''':
* In order to make sense of <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = L</math>, where must the function <math>f</math> be defined? Must <math>f</math> be defined ''at'' <math>c</math>? If <math>f(c)</math> exists, what can we say about its value?
* The definitions of left hand limit, right hand limit and ordinary (two-sided) limit are pretty similar. There is only one clause that differs across the three definitions. What clause is this, and how does it differ across the definitions? Explain both in inequality notation and in interval notation.
* Why should we be careful when dealing with one-sided limits in the context of function compositions?


===Relation between the limit notions===
===Relation between the limit notions===


The two-sided limit exists if and only if (both the left hand limit and right hand limit exist and they are equal to each other).
The two-sided limit exists if and only if (both the left hand limit and right hand limit exist) '''and''' (they are equal to each other).


==Definition of finite limit for function of one variable in terms of a game==
Explicitly, <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x)</math> exists if '''all three''' of these conditions hold:


The formal definitions of limit, as well as of one-sided limit, can be reframed in terms of a game. This is a special instance of an approach that turns any statement with existential and universal quantifiers into a game.
* <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x)</math> exists.
* <math>\lim_{x \to c^+} f(x)</math> exists.
* <math>\lim_{x \to c^-} f(x) = \lim_{x \to c^+} f(x)</math>.
 
Moreover, in the event that both one-sided limits exist and are equal, the two-sided limit is equal to both of them.
 
Further, a particular value of <math>\delta > 0</math> works for a particular value of <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> in the two-sided limit definition if and only if it works in both the left hand limit definition and the right hand limit definition.
 
==Definition of finite limit for function of one variable in terms of a game==
 
The formal definitions of limit, as well as of one-sided limit, can be reframed in terms of a game. This is a special instance of an approach that turns any statement with existential and universal quantifiers into a game.


===Two-sided limit===
===Two-sided limit===
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<math>\!\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>
<math>\!\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>


Note that there is one trivial sense in which the above statement can be false, or rather, meaningless, namely, that <math>f</math> is not defined on the immediate left or immediate right of <math>c</math>. In that case, the limit statement above is false, but moreover, it is meaningless to even consider the notion of limit.
Note that there is one trivial sense in which the above statement can be false, or rather, meaningless, namely, that <math>f</math> is not defined on the immediate left or immediate right of <math>c</math>. In that case, the limit statement above is false, but moreover, it is meaningless to even consider the notion of limit. We therefore omit this sense from consideration and consider instead only the situation where <math>f</math> is defined on the immediate left and immediate right of <math>c</math>.


The game is between two players, a '''Prover''' whose goal is to prove that the limit statement is true, and a '''Skeptic''' (also called a '''Verifier''' or sometimes a '''Disprover''') whose goal is to show that the statement is false. The game has three moves:
The game is between two players, a '''Prover''' whose goal is to prove that the limit statement is true, and a '''Skeptic''' (also called a '''Verifier''' or sometimes a '''Disprover''') whose goal is to show that the statement is false. The game has three moves:


# First, the skeptic chooses <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, or equivalently, chooses the target interval <math>(L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>.
# First, the skeptic chooses <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, or equivalently, chooses the target interval <math>(L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> in which the skeptic is challenging the prover to ''trap'' the function.
# Then, the prover chooses <math>\delta > 0</math>, or equivalently, chooses the interval <math>(c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math>.
# Then, the prover chooses <math>\delta > 0</math>, or equivalently, chooses the interval <math>(c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math>.
# Then, the skeptic chooses a value <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math>, or equivalently, <math>x \in (c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math>, which is the same as <math>(c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>.
# Then, the skeptic chooses a value <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math>, or equivalently, <math>x \in (c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \}</math>, which is the same as <math>(c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>.


Now, if <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>), the prover wins. Otherwise, the skeptic wins (see the subtlety about the domain of definition issue below the picture).
Now, if <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>), the prover wins. Otherwise, the skeptic wins.


We say that the limit statement
We say that the limit statement
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<math>\!\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>
<math>\!\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>


is '''true''' if the prover has a winning strategy for this game. The ''winning strategy'' for the prover basically constitutes a strategy to choose an appropriate <math>\delta</math> in terms of the <matH>\varepsilon</math> chosen by the skeptic. Thus, it is an expression of <math>\delta</math> as a function of <math>\varepsilon</math>.
is '''true''' if the prover has a '''winning strategy''' for this game. The ''winning strategy'' for the prover basically constitutes a strategy to choose an appropriate <math>\delta</math> in terms of the <math>\varepsilon</math> chosen by the skeptic. Thus, it is an expression of <math>\delta</math> as a function of <math>\varepsilon</math>. Verbally, the goal of the prover is to choose a value of <math>\delta</math> so that when the input is restricted to being within <math>\delta</math> distance of <math>c</math>, the output is '''trapped''' to within <math>\varepsilon</math> distance of the claimed limit <math>L</math>.


We say that the limit statement
We say that the limit statement
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is '''false''' if the skeptic has a winning strategy for this game. The '''winning strategy''' for the skeptic involves a choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>, ''and'' a strategy that chooses a value of <math>x</math> (constrained in the specified interval) based on the prover's choice of <math>\delta</math>.
is '''false''' if the skeptic has a winning strategy for this game. The '''winning strategy''' for the skeptic involves a choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>, ''and'' a strategy that chooses a value of <math>x</math> (constrained in the specified interval) based on the prover's choice of <math>\delta</math>.
Let's review the definition in conjunction with the game along with a deeper semantic understanding of the steps:
{| class="sortable" border="1"
! Step no. !! Clause of definition !! Who moves? !! What is chosen? !! Constraints on the choice !! Comment
|-
| 1 || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || Skeptic || <math>\varepsilon</math> || Must be positive || The "for every" corresponds to the idea that the move is made by the side that does ''not'' have a winning strategy, because we want to argue that the side that ''does'' have a winning strategy can win ''no matter what''.
|-
| 2 || there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that || Prover || <math>\delta</math> || Must be positive || The "there exists" corresponds to the idea that the move is made by the side that has a winning strategy, because that side gets to choose a favorable value of the variable (in this case <math>\delta</math>).
|-
| 3 || for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math>, || Skeptic || <math>x</math> || Must be within the interval <math>(c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math> || The "for all" corresponds to the idea that the move is made by the side that does ''not'' have a winning strategy, because we want to argue that the side that ''does'' have a winning strategy can win ''no matter what''.
|-
| 4 || we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> || Neither; it's time for the judge to decide || -- || If <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> (the condition that we desire) the prover wins. Else, the skeptic wins. ||
|}


[[File:Epsilondeltagamepicture.png|1000px]]
[[File:Epsilondeltagamepicture.png|1000px]]


'''Slight subtlety regarding domain of definition''': The domain of definition issue leads to a couple of minor subtleties:
'''Slight subtlety regarding domain of definition''': <toggledisplay>The domain of definition issue leads to a couple of minor subtleties:


* A priori, it is possible that the <math>x</math> chosen by the skeptic is outside the domain of <math>f</math>, so it does not make sense to evaluate <math>f(x)</math>. In the definition given above, this would lead to the game being won by the skeptic. In particular, if <math>f</math> is not defined on the immediate left or right of <math>c</math>, the skeptic can always win by picking <math>x</math> outside the domain.
* A priori, it is possible that the <math>x</math> chosen by the skeptic is outside the domain of <math>f</math>, so it does not make sense to evaluate <math>f(x)</math>. In the definition given above, this would lead to the game being won by the skeptic. In particular, if <math>f</math> is not defined on the immediate left or right of <math>c</math>, the skeptic can always win by picking <math>x</math> outside the domain.
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** We could require (as part of the game rules) that the prover pick <math>\delta</math> such that <math>(c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \} \subseteq \operatorname{dom} f</math>. This pre-empts the problem of picking <math>x</math>-values outside the domain.
** We could require (as part of the game rules) that the prover pick <math>\delta</math> such that <math>(c - \delta, c + \delta) \setminus \{ c \} \subseteq \operatorname{dom} f</math>. This pre-empts the problem of picking <math>x</math>-values outside the domain.
** We could require (as part of the game rules) that the skeptic pick <math>x</math> ''in'' the domain, i.e., pick <math>x</math> with <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> and <math>x \in \operatorname{dom} f</math>.
** We could require (as part of the game rules) that the skeptic pick <math>x</math> ''in'' the domain, i.e., pick <math>x</math> with <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> and <math>x \in \operatorname{dom} f</math>.
** We could alter the rule so that if the skeptic picks <math>x</math> outside the domain, the prover wins (instead of the skeptic winning).
** We could alter the rule so that if the skeptic picks <math>x</math> outside the domain, the prover wins (instead of the skeptic winning).</toggledisplay>


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I explain the mathematical symbols.</toggledisplay>
I explain the mathematical symbols.</toggledisplay>


===Negation of limit statement and non-existence of limit===
We now consider the explicit description of the definition for the case that the skeptic has a winning strategy for the limit game for <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>, i.e., for the limit statement being false.
In words, the definition is:
{{quotation|There exists <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> such that for every <math>\delta > 0</math>, there exists <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0  < |x - c| < \delta</math> and <math>|f(x) - L| \ge \varepsilon</math>.}}
Let's review the definition in conjunction with the game along with a deeper semantic understanding of the steps:
{| class="sortable" border="1"
! Step no. !! Clause of definition for original limit statement (i.e., prover has a winning strategy) !! Clause of definition for skeptic having a winning strategy !! Who moves? !! What is chosen? !! Constraints on the choice !! Comment
|-
| 1 || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> || There exists <math>\varepsilon > 0</math> such that || Skeptic || <math>\varepsilon</math> || Must be positive || Whether we use "for every" or "there exists" depends on who we're rooting for.
|-
| 2 || there exists <math>\delta > 0</matH> such that || for every <math>\delta > 0</math>, || Prover || <math>\delta</math> || Must be positive || Whether we use "for every" or "there exists" depends on who we're rooting for.
|-
| 3 || for all <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math>, || there exists <math>x \in \R</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> and || Skeptic || <math>x</math> || Must be within the interval <math>(c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math> || Whether we use "for every" or "there exists" depends on who we're rooting for.
|-
| 4 || we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> || <math>|f(x) - L| \ge \varepsilon</math>. || Neither; it's time for the judge to decide || -- || If <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>, the prover wins. Else, the skeptic wins. || The conditions are negatives of one another.
|}
<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=N0U8Y11nlPk}}</center>
<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=N0U8Y11nlPk}}</center>


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# <math>f</math> is not ''defined'' around <math>c</math>, i.e., there is no <math>t > 0</math> for which <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c - t, c + t) \setminus \{ c \}</math>. In this case, it does not even make sense to try taking a limit.
# <math>f</math> is not ''defined'' around <math>c</math>, i.e., there is no <math>t > 0</math> for which <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c - t, c + t) \setminus \{ c \}</math>. In this case, it does not even make sense to try taking a limit.
# <math>f</math> is defined around <math>c</math>, around <math>c</math>, i.e., there is <math>t > 0</math> for which <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c - t, c + t) \setminus \{ c \}</math>. So, it does make sense to try taking a limit. However, the limit still does not exist.
# <math>f</math> is defined around <math>c</math>, except possibly at <math>c</math>, i.e., there is <math>t > 0</math> for which <math>f</math> is defined on <math>(c - t, c + t) \setminus \{ c \}</math>. So, it does make sense to try taking a limit. However, the limit still does not exist.


The formulation of the latter case is as follows:
The formulation of the latter case is as follows:
Line 2,366: Line 2,475:


does not exist. The skeptic's winning strategy is as follows: regardless of the <math>L</math> chosen by the prover, pick a fixed <math>\varepsilon < 1</math> (independent of <math>L</math>, so <math>\varepsilon</math> can be decided in advance of the game -- note that the skeptic could even pick <math>\varepsilon = 1</math> and the strategy would still work). After the prover has chosen a value <math>\delta</math>, find a value <math>x \in (0 - \delta,0 + \delta) \setminus \{ 0 \}</math> such that the <math>\sin(1/x)</math> function value lies outside <math>(L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>. This is possible because the interval <math>(L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> has width <math>2 \varepsilon</math>, hence cannot cover the entire interval <math>[-1,1]</math>, which has width 2. However, the range of the <math>\sin(1/x)</math> function on <math>(0 - \delta,0 + \delta) \setminus \{ 0 \}</math> is all of <math>[-1,1]</math>.
does not exist. The skeptic's winning strategy is as follows: regardless of the <math>L</math> chosen by the prover, pick a fixed <math>\varepsilon < 1</math> (independent of <math>L</math>, so <math>\varepsilon</math> can be decided in advance of the game -- note that the skeptic could even pick <math>\varepsilon = 1</math> and the strategy would still work). After the prover has chosen a value <math>\delta</math>, find a value <math>x \in (0 - \delta,0 + \delta) \setminus \{ 0 \}</math> such that the <math>\sin(1/x)</math> function value lies outside <math>(L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>. This is possible because the interval <math>(L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math> has width <math>2 \varepsilon</math>, hence cannot cover the entire interval <math>[-1,1]</math>, which has width 2. However, the range of the <math>\sin(1/x)</math> function on <math>(0 - \delta,0 + \delta) \setminus \{ 0 \}</math> is all of <math>[-1,1]</math>.
{{quotation|Crucially, the inability of the prover to trap the function value close to any point as <math>x \to 0</math> is the reason the limit fails to exist.}}


[[File:Sin1byxlimitat0.png|800px]]
[[File:Sin1byxlimitat0.png|800px]]
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Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay>
Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay>
0:00:15.500,0:00:19.140
0:00:31.170,0:00:38.170
Vipul: Okay. This talk is going to be about
Vipul: Ok, so this talk is going to be about
certain misconceptions
why under certain circumstances limits don't exist
 
0:00:39.800,0:00:46.800
We are going to take this example of a function
which is defined like this: sin of one over x


0:00:19.140,0:00:22.440
0:00:47.699,0:00:51.360
that people have regarding limits and these
Obviously, that definition doesn't work
are misconceptions that
when x equals zero.


0:00:22.440,0:00:25.840
0:00:51.360,0:00:57.260
people generally acquire after...
So this is a function defined only for all non-zero
reals.


0:00:25.840,0:00:29.180
0:00:57.260,0:01:01.050
These are not the misconceptions that
The goal is to figure out what the limit as
people have before studying limits,
x approaches 0 of f(x) is.


0:00:29.180,0:00:32.730
0:01:01.050,0:01:06.630
these are misconceptions you might have after
Here is a graph of the function. This is a
studying limits,
y axis, and x axis.


0:00:32.730,0:00:35.059
0:01:06.630,0:01:08.490
after studying the epsilon delta definition.
The function looks like this.


0:00:35.059,0:00:38.550
0:01:08.490,0:01:10.680
I'm going to describe these misconceptions
It is oscillatory.
in terms of the limit game,
 
0:01:10.680,0:01:16.270
As you approach zero it oscillates more, faster
and faster.


0:00:38.550,0:00:41.900
0:01:16.270,0:01:19.070
the prover skeptic game of the limit. Though
What are the upper and lower limits of oscillation?
the misconceptions


0:00:41.900,0:00:45.850
0:01:19.070,0:01:25.580
themselves can be, sort of, don't depend
Actually all these things should be the same
on the understanding of the
height.


0:00:45.850,0:00:49.059
0:01:25.580,0:01:29.760
game but to understand exactly what's
My drawing wasn't good, but, it should all
happening, it's better to think
be the same height, above and below.


0:00:49.059,0:00:51.010
0:01:29.760,0:01:31.290
of it in terms of the game.
What are these upper and lower limits? [ANSWER!]


0:00:51.010,0:00:55.370
0:01:31.290,0:01:32.790
First recall the definition. So limit as x
Rui: 1 and -1.
approaches c of f(x) is a


0:00:55.370,0:01:01.629
0:01:32.790,0:01:39.790
number L; so c and L are both numbers, real
Vipul: So the lower limit is negative one
numbers. f is a function,
and the upper limit is one. Ok, good.


0:01:01.629,0:01:06.380
0:01:39.829,0:01:46.829
x is approaching c. And we said this is true
So what does it mean, what is the limit at
if the following -- for
zero for this function? [ANSWER!]


0:01:06.380,0:01:10.180
0:01:46.850,0:01:53.850
every epsilon greater than zero, there exists
This is where...you need to really think, so
a delta greater than
I might say ok the limit is, looks like it's zero.


0:01:10.180,0:01:14.800
0:01:58.259,0:01:58.509
zero such that for all x which are given delta
distance of c, f(x) is


0:01:14.800,0:01:17.590
0:01:58.469,0:02:04.749
within epsilon distance of L. Okay?
At zero, you say that looks neat, that looks
right because you see when the x value approaches,


0:01:17.590,0:01:24.590
0:02:04.749,0:02:09.190
Now, how do we describe this in terms for
comes close to zero, the f(x) value also comes
limit game?
close to zero.


0:01:26.530,0:01:33.530
0:02:09.190,0:02:12.700
KM: So, skeptic starts off with the first
It keeps oscillating between -1and 1,
part of the definition.
and it keeps coming.


0:01:34.990,0:01:38.189
0:02:12.700,0:02:19.700
Vipul: By picking the epsilon? Okay, that's
I draw a very small ball around zero, like
the thing written in
that.


0:01:38.189,0:01:42.939
0:02:19.780,0:02:22.700
black. What's the skeptic trying to do? What's the
The function is going to keep entering this
goal of the skeptic?
ball.


0:01:42.939,0:01:49.100
0:02:22.700,0:02:27.060
KM: To try and pick an epsilon that would
A ball or a square one or whatever.
not work.
 
0:02:27.060,0:02:34.060
A very small neighborhood of this origin point
here in this two-dimensional picture.


0:01:49.100,0:01:53.450
0:02:35.230,0:02:40.459
Vipul: So the goal of the skeptic is to try
The function graph is going to enter that
to show that the statement is false.
repeatedly.


0:01:53.450,0:01:54.100
0:02:40.459,0:02:42.010
KM: Yeah.
Do you think the limit is zero? [ANSWER!]


0:01:54.100,0:01:57.790
0:02:42.010,0:02:42.830
Vipul: Right? In this case the skeptic should
Rui: No.
try to start by choosing


0:01:57.790,0:02:02.220
0:02:42.830,0:02:46.860
an epsilon that is really -- the goal of
Vipul: No? Why not? Isn't it coming really
the skeptic is to pick an
close to zero?


0:02:02.220,0:02:04.500
0:02:46.860,0:02:47.430
epsilon that's really small, what is the
Rui: Sometimes.
skeptic trying to challenge


0:02:04.500,0:02:07.920
0:02:47.430,0:02:49.140
the prover into doing by picking the epsilon?
Vipul: What do you mean "sometimes?"
The skeptic is trying to


0:02:07.920,0:02:11.959
0:02:49.140,0:02:56.140
challenge the prover into trapping the function
Rui: It means sometimes it is real close to
close to L when x is
zero and then it flies away.


0:02:11.959,0:02:17.040
0:02:56.870,0:03:03.870
close to c. And the skeptic specifies what
Vipul: Ok, "flies away." [Hmm] So what's
is meant by "close to L" is
your objection? What is not happening?


0:02:17.040,0:02:19.860
0:03:04.019,0:03:06.010
by the choice of epsilon. Okay?
Rui: We can not trap.


0:02:19.860,0:02:24.900
0:03:06.010,0:03:07.239
When picking epsilon the skeptic is
Vipul: We cannot trap...
effectively picking this interval, L -


0:02:24.900,0:02:30.700
0:03:07.239,0:03:11.909
epsilon, L + epsilon). Okay? And basically
Rui: ...trap it in a neighborhood of zero.
that's what the skeptic is


0:02:30.700,0:02:33.680
0:03:11.909,0:03:18.480
doing. The prover is then picking a delta.
Vipul: Function not trapped.
What is the goal of the


0:02:33.680,0:02:36.239
0:03:18.480,0:03:20.110
prover in picking the delta? The prover is
What should the limit be if it is not zero?
saying, "Here's how I can


0:02:36.239,0:02:40.099
0:03:20.110,0:03:24.849
trap the function within that interval. I'm
Should it be half, two-thirds, what should
going to pick a delta and
the limit be? [ANSWER!]


0:02:40.099,0:02:43.520
0:03:24.849,0:03:31.849
my claim is that if the x value within delta distance of c, except the
(I'll explain this later), what do you think
the limit should be?


0:02:43.520,0:02:47.000
0:03:34.659,0:03:36.730
point c itself, so my claim is for any x value
Rui: It doesn't have a limit.
there the function is


0:02:47.000,0:02:48.260
0:03:36.730,0:03:38.299
trapped in here."
Vipul: It doesn't have a limit.


0:02:48.260,0:02:52.819
0:03:38.299,0:03:39.790
So, the prover picks the delta and then the
Ok, so what does that mean?
skeptic tries to meet the


0:02:52.819,0:02:56.709
0:03:39.790,0:03:45.290
prover's claim or rather, test the prover's
Whatever limit you claim the function has
claim by picking an x
you are wrong...If you claim the function had


0:02:56.709,0:02:59.670
0:03:45.290,0:03:49.170
which is within the interval specified by
any numerical limit, if you claim if it is half you
the prover and then they
are wrong.


0:02:59.670,0:03:03.379
0:03:49.170,0:03:50.640
both check whether f(x) is within epsilon
If you claim minus half you are wrong.
distance [of L]. If it is


0:03:03.379,0:03:07.940
0:03:50.640,0:03:52.720
then the prover wins and if it is not, if
If you claim the limit is 50, you are wrong.
this [|f(x) - L|]is not less


0:03:07.940,0:03:09.989
0:03:52.720,0:03:54.959
than epsilon then the skeptic wins. Okay?
Whatever claim you make about the limit,
you are wrong.


0:03:09.989,0:03:13.659
0:03:54.959,0:04:00.780
So, the skeptic is picking the neighborhood
So let's try to think of this in terms of the
of the target point which
game between a prover and a skeptic.


0:03:13.659,0:03:17.030
0:04:00.780,0:04:02.730
in this case is just the open interval of
(You should go and review that video
radius epsilon, the prover


0:03:17.030,0:03:21.940
0:04:02.730,0:04:09.730
is picking the delta which is effectively the
or read the corresponding material to understand
neighborhood of the domain
what I am going to say.)


0:03:21.940,0:03:25.760
0:04:09.829,0:04:13.969
point except the point c as I've said open
It's good if you have also seen the video
interval (c - delta, c +
on the definition of limit statement being


0:03:25.760,0:03:30.870
0:04:13.969,0:04:17.709
delta) excluding c and then the skeptic picks
false, which builds on that.
an x in the neighborhood


0:03:30.870,0:03:35.700
0:04:17.709,0:04:21.620
specified by prover and if the function value
What I am now asking you, what does it mean
is within the interval
to say the limit does not exist?


0:03:35.700,0:03:38.830
0:04:21.620,0:04:23.980
specified by the skeptic then the prover wins.
As x approaches c [limit] of f(x) does not exist.


0:03:38.830,0:03:41.989
0:04:23.980,0:04:27.810
Now, what does it mean to say the statement
Here c is zero, but that is not relevant...
is true in terms of the
that is not necessary for the definition.


0:03:41.989,0:03:43.080
0:04:27.810,0:04:32.910
game?
Well it is the usual way we say that the
limit statement is false except we need to


0:03:43.080,0:03:50.080
0:04:32.910,0:04:37.170
KM: So, it means that the prover is always
add one step in the beginning, which is for
going to win the game.
every L in R [the reals].
 
0:04:37.170,0:04:42.460
It says that for every L in R [the reals] the statement
limit x approaches c, f(x) equals L, is false.


0:03:51.849,0:03:55.629
0:04:42.460,0:04:43.900
Vipul: Well, sort of. I mean the prover may
So how does it read?
play it stupidly. The


0:03:55.629,0:04:00.750
0:04:43.900,0:04:48.220
prover can win the game if the prover plays
It says, for every L in R [the reals] there exists epsilon
well. So, the prover has a
greater than zero such that for every delta


0:04:00.750,0:04:03.230
0:04:48.220,0:04:55.030
winning strategy for the game. Okay?
greater than zero there exists x, within the
delta neighborhood of c such that f(x) is


0:04:05.230,0:04:10.299
0:04:55.030,0:04:58.590
The statement is true if the prover has a
not in the epsilon neighborhood of L.
winning strategy for [the


0:04:10.299,0:04:14.090
0:04:58.590,0:05:05.590
game] and that means the prover has a way
How would you interpret this in terms of a
of playing the game such that
game between a prover and a skeptic?[ANSWER, THINKING ALONG!]


0:04:14.090,0:04:17.320
0:05:06.470,0:05:11.570
whatever the skeptic does the prover is going
Rui: For every limit the prover proposes...
to win the game. The


0:04:17.320,0:04:20.789
0:05:11.570,0:05:16.420
statement is considered false if the skeptic
Vipul: This is not quite the same as the limit
has a winning strategy
game which you may have seen in a previous


0:04:20.789,0:04:23.370
0:05:16.420,0:05:21.170
for the game which means the skeptic has a
video which was assuming that the limit was
way of playing so that
already given as a part of the game.


0:04:23.370,0:04:25.729
0:05:21.170,0:05:28.170
whatever the prover does the skeptic can win
This is sort of a somewhat more general game or
the game.
a more meta game where part of the game


0:04:25.729,0:04:27.599
0:05:28.420,0:05:31.950
Or if the game doesn't make sense at all
is also the prover trying to specify what
...
the limit should be.


0:04:27.599,0:04:29.460
0:05:31.950,0:05:37.100
maybe the function is not defined on
The first step the prover plays, the prover
is in black, skeptic is in red.


0:04:29.460,0:04:31.050
0:05:37.100,0:05:43.290
the immediate left and right of c.
The first step the prover plays, proposes
a value of the limit. Then?


0:04:31.050,0:04:32.370
0:05:43.290,0:05:47.280
If the function isn't defined then we
Rui: The skeptic chooses an epsilon.


0:04:32.370,0:04:34.160
0:05:47.280,0:05:50.020
cannot even make sense of the statement.
Vipul: What's the goal of the skeptic in choosing
the epsilon?


0:04:34.160,0:04:36.990
0:05:50.020,0:05:56.740
Either way -- the skeptic has a winning strategy
The goal of the skeptic is.. so let's say
the prover chose a limit value L here, that's


0:04:36.990,0:04:37.770
0:05:56.740,0:05:58.470
or the game doesn't make sense --
numerical value L here.


0:04:41.770,0:04:43.470
0:05:58.470,0:06:00.050
then the statement is false.
The skeptic picks epsilon.
 
0:06:00.050,0:06:06.650
The skeptic will pick epsilon, which means
the skeptic is picking this band from L minus


0:04:43.470,0:04:47.660
0:06:06.650,0:06:12.400
If the prover has a winning strategy
epsilon to L plus epsilon.
the statement is true.


0:04:47.660,0:04:54.660
0:06:12.400,0:06:14.270
With this background in mind let's look
Now what does the prover try to do?
at some common misconceptions.


0:04:56.540,0:05:03.540
0:06:14.270,0:06:19.000
Okay. Let's say we are trying to prove that
The prover tries to pick a delta. What is
the limit as x approaches
the prover trying to do?


0:05:27.620,0:05:31.530
0:06:19.000,0:06:24.490
2 of x^2 is 4, so is that statement correct?
Find a neighborhood of c, such that the
The statement we're
function in that neighborhood of c the function


0:05:31.530,0:05:32.060
0:06:24.490,0:06:28.370
trying to prove?
is trapped within epsilon of L.


0:05:32.060,0:05:32.680
0:06:28.370,0:06:32.740
KM: Yes.
So in our case, c is zero in this example,
so the prover will be trying to pick a neighborhood


0:05:32.680,0:05:35.960
0:06:32.740,0:06:39.740
Vipul: That's correct. Because in fact x^2
of zero, is something like... zero plus delta
is a continuous function
on the right and zero minus delta on the left.


0:05:35.960,0:05:40.160
0:06:44.620,0:06:45.750
and the limit of a continuous function at
What's the goal of the prover?
the point is just the


0:05:40.160,0:05:43.030
0:06:45.750,0:06:50.840
value at the point and 2^2 is 4. But we're
To say that whenever x is in this interval,
going to now try to prove
for all x,


0:05:43.030,0:05:48.530
0:06:50.840,0:06:53.500
this formally using the epsilon-delta definition
The prover is trying to say that all for x
of limit, okay? Now
in here, the function [difference from L] is less than epsilon.


0:05:48.530,0:05:51.229
0:06:53.500,0:06:56.170
in terms of the epsilon-delta definition or
The skeptic who is trying to disprove that.
rather in terms of this


0:05:51.229,0:05:55.160
0:06:56.170,0:06:59.060
game setup, what we need to do is we need
What does the skeptic need to do?
to describe a winning


0:05:55.160,0:06:01.460
0:06:59.060,0:07:03.900
strategy for the prover. Okay? We need to
Rui: Every time the prover finds an x.
describe delta in terms of


0:06:01.460,0:06:05.240
0:07:03.900,0:07:07.540
epsilon. The prover essentially ... the only
Vipul: Well the prover finds, picks the delta,
move the prover makes is
what does the skeptic try to do?


0:06:05.240,0:06:09.130
0:07:07.540,0:07:08.480
this choice of delta. Right? The skeptic picked
Rui: Just pick an x.
epsilon, the prover


0:06:09.130,0:06:12.810
0:07:08.480,0:07:10.550
picked delta then the skeptic picks x and
Vipul: Picks an x such that the function...
then they judge who won. The


0:06:12.810,0:06:15.810
0:07:10.550,0:07:12.140
only choice the prover makes is the choice
Rui: Is out of the...
of delta, right?


0:06:15.810,0:06:16.979
0:07:12.140,0:07:13.960
KM: Exactly.
Vipul: Is outside that thing.


0:06:16.979,0:06:20.080
0:07:13.960,0:07:24.960
Vipul: The prover chooses the delta in terms
Let me make this part a little bit more...so
of epsilon.
here you have... the same colors.


0:06:20.080,0:06:24.819
0:07:25.150,0:07:41.150
So, here is my strategy. My strategy is I'm
This is
going to choose delta as,
the axis...The skeptic...The prover has picked
this point and the skeptic has picked epsilon.


0:06:24.819,0:06:29.509
0:07:41.780,0:07:46.670
I as a prover is going to choose delta as
So this is L plus epsilon, L minus epsilon.
epsilon over the absolute


0:06:29.509,0:06:33.690
0:07:46.670,0:07:50.460
value of x plus 2 [|x + 2|]. Okay?
The prover is now, it so happens that c is
zero here.


0:06:33.690,0:06:36.880
0:07:50.460,0:07:56.690
Now, what I want to show that this strategy
So that everything is happening near the y
works. So, what I'm aiming
axis.


0:06:36.880,0:06:39.840
0:07:56.690,0:08:03.690
is that if ... so let me just finish this
Now, the prover wants to pick a delta, the
and then you can tell me where
prover wants to pick, like this, should be


0:06:39.840,0:06:43.419
0:08:07.320,0:08:07.910
I went wrong here, okay? I'm claiming that
the same.
this strategy works which


0:06:43.419,0:06:47.130
0:08:07.910,0:08:14.910
means I'm claiming that if the skeptic now
So this is c plus delta which c is zero, so
picks any x which is within
zero plus delta and zero minus delta.


0:06:47.130,0:06:54.130
0:08:17.810,0:08:21.960
delta distance of 2; the target point,
Now, under what conditions...What happens
next?


0:06:56.710,0:07:01.490
0:08:21.960,0:08:28.240
then the function value is within epsilon
The prover is implicitly trying to claim that
distance of 4, the claimed
the function, when the x value is close here,


0:07:01.490,0:07:04.080
0:08:28.240,0:08:30.520
limit. That's what I want to show.
the function value is trapped here.


0:07:04.080,0:07:08.300
0:08:30.520,0:08:35.089
Now is that true? Well, here's how I do
What the skeptic wants to show is that, that's
it. I think, I started by
not true.


0:07:08.300,0:07:13.539
0:08:35.089,0:08:39.830
picking this expression, I factored it as
If it isn't true, in order to do that, the
|x - 2||x + 2|. The absolute
skeptic should pick a value of x.


0:07:13.539,0:07:16.810
0:08:39.830,0:08:46.830
value of product is the product of the absolute
So the skeptic needs to pick a value of x
values so this can be
somewhere in this interval such that at that
 
0:08:48.110,0:08:55.110
value of f(x)...let me just make the x axis...so
the skeptic wants to pick a value of x, maybe


0:07:16.810,0:07:21.599
0:08:59.209,0:09:06.209
split like that. Now I see, while we know
its somewhere here, such that when you evaluate
that |x - 2| is less than
the function at x it lies outside.


0:07:21.599,0:07:24.979
0:09:07.269,0:09:11.720
delta and this is a positive thing. So we
If when you evaluate the function at x, and it lies
can either less than delta
outside this strip then the skeptic wins and


0:07:24.979,0:07:31.979
0:09:11.720,0:09:16.290
times absolute value x plus 2. Right? And
if the value of the function of x is inside
this delta is epsilon over
the strip then the prover wins.


0:07:35.599,0:07:37.620
0:09:16.290,0:09:23.290
|x + 2| and we get epsilon.
Now looking back at this function, the question
is, can the prover pick an L such that regardless,


0:07:37.620,0:07:40.460
0:09:25.209,0:09:31.779
So, this thing equals something, less than
so can the prover pick a value of L such that...Is
something, equals
this whole thing coming?


0:07:40.460,0:07:43.580
0:09:31.779,0:09:37.860
something, equals something, you have a chain
Such that regardless of the epsilon that the
of things, there's one
skeptic picks, there exists a delta such that


0:07:43.580,0:07:47.720
0:09:37.860,0:09:44.439
step that you have less than. So overall we
for all x the function is trapped? Or is it
get that this expression,
instead true that the skeptic will win? (i.e.) Is


0:07:47.720,0:07:53.740
0:09:44.439,0:09:50.579
this thing is less than epsilon. So, we have
it true that whatever L the prover picks there
shown that whatever x the
exists an epsilon, since the skeptic picks


0:07:53.740,0:08:00.370
0:09:50.579,0:09:57.360
skeptic would pick, the function value lies
an epsilon, such that whatever delta the prover
within the epsilon
picks the function in not in fact, trapped


0:08:00.370,0:08:05.030
0:09:57.360,0:10:00.399
distance of the claimed limit. Whatever the
here. What do you think looking at the picture
skeptic picks (x within the
here?


0:08:05.030,0:08:09.240
0:10:00.399,0:10:05.329
delta distance of the target point).
Can you trap the function in a rectangle
like this? [ANSWER!]


0:08:09.240,0:08:16.240
0:10:05.329,0:10:06.100
Does this strategy work? Is this a proof?
Rui: No.
What's wrong with this?


0:08:24.270,0:08:31.270
0:10:06.100,0:10:09.930
Do you think there's anything wrong
Vipul: Well, not if it is a very small rectangle.
with the algebra down here?


0:08:33.510,0:08:40.510
0:10:09.930,0:10:16.930
KM: Well, we said that ...
What should the skeptic's strategy be?


0:08:40.910,0:08:47.910
0:10:17.060,0:10:23.930
Vipul: So, is there anything wrong in the
The claim is that the limit does not exist,
algebra here? This is this,
that is the claim.


0:08:50.160,0:08:51.740
0:10:23.930,0:10:25.990
this is less than delta, delta ... So, this
The claim is that this limit doesn't exist.
part


0:08:51.740,0:08:52.089
0:10:25.990,0:10:29.750
seems fine, right?
What is the skeptic's strategy?


0:08:52.089,0:08:52.339
0:10:29.750,0:10:31.990
KM: Yes.
What do you mean by skeptic strategy?


0:08:52.330,0:08:55.640
0:10:31.990,0:10:37.370
Vipul: There's nothing wrong in the algebra
Well, the skeptic should have some strategy
here. So, what could be
that works, so the skeptic should pick an


0:08:55.640,0:09:00.310
0:10:37.370,0:10:43.290
wrong? Our setup seems fine. If the x value
epsilon that is smart and then the skeptic
is within delta distance
should pick an x that works.


0:09:00.310,0:09:03.350
0:10:43.290,0:10:50.209
of 2 then the function value is within epsilon
What epsilon should the skeptic pick? Suppose
this is 4. That's
the skeptic picks epsilon as 50 million,


0:09:03.350,0:09:05.360
0:10:50.209,0:10:52.050
exactly what we want to prove, correct?
is that a winning strategy?


0:09:05.360,0:09:11.120
0:10:52.050,0:10:52.790
So, there's nothing wrong this point onward.
Rui: No.
So, the error happened


0:09:11.120,0:09:14.440
0:10:52.790,0:10:53.899
somewhere here. Where do you think that part
Vipul: Why not?
you think what is wrong


0:09:14.440,0:09:21.160
0:10:53.899,0:10:58.300
here? In the strategy choice step? What do
Rui: He should pick something between -1 and
you think went wrong in the
1, right?


0:09:21.160,0:09:24.010
0:10:58.300,0:11:01.920
strategy choice step?
Vipul: Well epsilon is a positive number so
what do you mean?


0:09:24.010,0:09:28.850
0:11:01.920,0:11:04.600
What? Okay, so let's go over the game. Skeptic
Rui: Oh, anything between one, smaller.
will choose the epsilon,


0:09:28.850,0:09:29.760
0:11:04.600,0:11:05.230
then?
Vipul: Smaller than...


0:09:29.760,0:09:35.130
0:11:05.230,0:11:08.999
KM: Then the prover chooses delta.
Rui: Less than one. Epsilon.


0:09:35.130,0:09:36.080
0:11:08.999,0:11:12.470
Vipul: Prover chooses delta. Then?
Vipul: Less than one. Why will that work?


0:09:36.080,0:09:39.529
0:11:12.470,0:11:19.470
KM: Then the skeptic has to choose the x value.
Rui: Because even if it is less than one then
anything, no matter what kind of delta...


0:09:39.529,0:09:42.470
0:11:20.930,0:11:27.930
Vipul: x value. So, when the prover is deciding
Vipul: Whatever L the prover picked...What
the strategy, when the
is the width of this interval? The distance


0:09:42.470,0:09:45.860
0:11:28.209,0:11:29.589
prover is choosing the delta, what information
from the top and the bottom is?
does the prover have?


0:09:45.860,0:09:48.410
0:11:29.589,0:11:30.279
KM: He just has the information epsilon.
Rui: 2


0:09:48.410,0:09:50.500
0:11:30.279,0:11:30.980
Vipul: Just the information on epsilon. So?
Vipul: [2 times] epsilon.


0:09:50.500,0:09:57.060
0:11:30.980,0:11:31.680
KM: So, in this case the mistake was that
Rui: [2 times] epsilon.
because he didn't know the x value yet?


0:09:57.060,0:10:03.100
0:11:31.680,0:11:38.680
Vipul: The strategy cannot depend on x.
Vipul: 2 epsilon. If epsilon
is less than one, the skeptic's strategy is
pick epsilon less than one any epsilon.


0:10:03.100,0:10:04.800
0:11:43.089,0:11:50.089
KM: Yeah.
The skeptic can fix epsilon in the beginning, maybe pick
epsilon as 0.1 or something, but any epsilon


0:10:04.800,0:10:09.790
0:11:50.610,0:11:52.019
Vipul: So, the prover is sort of picking the
less than one will do.
delta based on x but the


0:10:09.790,0:10:12.660
0:11:52.019,0:11:59.019
prover doesn't know x at this stage when
In fact epsilon equal to one will do. Let
picking the delta. The delta
us play safe and pick epsilon as 0.1.


0:10:12.660,0:10:15.910
0:11:59.810,0:12:00.999
that the prover chooses has to be completely
Why does it work?
a function of epsilon


0:10:15.910,0:10:19.680
0:12:00.999,0:12:06.600
alone, it cannot depend on the future moves
Because this 2 epsilon cannot include both
of the skeptic because the
one and minus one.


0:10:19.680,0:10:23.700
0:12:06.600,0:12:12.649
prover cannot read the skeptic's mind. Okay?
It cannot cover this entire thing because
And doesn't know what the
this has width two, from one to minus one.


0:10:23.700,0:10:24.800
0:12:12.649,0:12:17.589
skeptic plans to do.
If the skeptic picks an epsilon less than
one, regardless of the L the prover has tried,


0:10:24.800,0:10:31.800
0:12:17.589,0:12:23.079
So that is the ... that's the ... I call
the strip is not wide enough to include everything
this ... can you see what I
from minus one to one.


0:10:42.240,0:10:43.040
0:12:23.079,0:12:27.990
call this?
Regardless of what Delta the prover picks,
we know that however small an interval we


0:10:43.040,0:10:45.399
0:12:27.990,0:12:32.180
KM: The strongly telepathic prover.
pick around zero, the function is going to
take all values from negative one to one in


0:10:45.399,0:10:51.470
0:12:32.180,0:12:35.759
Vipul: So, do you know what I meant by that?
that small interval.
Well, I meant the prover


0:10:51.470,0:10:58.470
0:12:35.759,0:12:40.819
is sort of reading the skeptic's mind. All
Now the skeptic will be able to find an x
right? It's called
such that the function value lies outside


0:11:07.769,0:11:10.329
0:12:40.819,0:12:42.290
telepathy.
the interval.


0:11:10.329,0:11:17.329
0:12:42.290,0:12:45.579
Okay, the next one.
The skeptic should...the key idea is that
the skeptic pick epsilon small enough, in


0:11:25.589,0:11:30.230
0:12:45.579,0:12:50.360
This one says that the function defined this
this case the skeptic's choice of epsilon
way. Okay? It's defined
doesn't depend on what L the prover chose.


0:11:30.230,0:11:34.829
0:12:50.360,0:12:51.269
as g(x) is x when x is rational and zero when
It need not.
x is irrational. So,


0:11:34.829,0:11:41.829
0:12:51.269,0:12:52.889
what would this look like? Well, it's like
The strategy doesn't.
this. There's a line y


0:11:42.750,0:11:49.510
0:12:52.889,0:12:59.889
equals x and there's the x-axis and the
Then after the prover has picked a delta,
graph is just the irrational x
picked an x such that the function lies outside.


0:11:49.510,0:11:52.750
0:13:01.249,0:13:07.410
coordinate parts of this line and the rational
Regardless of the L the prover picks,
x coordinate parts of
that L doesn't work as a limit because


0:11:52.750,0:11:56.350
0:13:07.410,0:13:10.550
this line. It's kind of like both these
the skeptic wins and so the limit doesn't
lines but only parts of
exist.</toggledisplay>


0:11:56.350,0:11:58.529
==Strategic aspects==
them. Right?


0:11:58.529,0:12:02.079
===The strategy of small===
Now we want to show that limit as x approaches
zero of g(x) is


0:12:02.079,0:12:06.899
In the game formulation of the limit, the following loose statements are true:
zero. So just in here, do you think the statement
is true? That x goes


0:12:06.899,0:12:09.910
* "Smaller is smarter" for the skeptic, i.e., the smaller the choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>, the better the outlook is for the skeptic to win.
to zero, does this function go to zero?
* "Smaller is smarter" for the prover, i.e., the smaller the choice of <math>\delta</math>, the better the outlook is for the prover to win.


0:12:09.910,0:12:10.610
In other words, each side benefits by making the crucial move of that side as small as possible. However, there does not exist any ''single'' arbitrarily small number -- this is related to the observation in the [[#Two key ideas|motivation section]] that there is no such thing as a ''single'' arbitrarily close number. Thus, saying "choose as small a value as possible" is not a coherent strategy. What we can say is the following:
KM: Yes.


0:12:10.610,0:12:17.610
* If a value of <math>\delta > 0</math> works for a given value of <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, the same value of <math>\delta > 0</math> also works for larger choices of <math>\varepsilon</math>.
Vipul: Because both the pieces are going to
* If a value of <math>\delta > 0</math> works for a given value of <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, smaller values of <math>\delta > 0</math> also work for the same choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>.
zero. That's the inclusion. Okay?


0:12:20.610,0:12:24.089
===Prover's strategy revisited===
This is the proof we have here. So the idea,
we again think about it


0:12:24.089,0:12:27.790
The prover, in choosing a winning strategy, must specify a rule that can determine a value of <math>\delta</math> that works in terms of the value of <math>\varepsilon</math> specified by the skeptic. In other words, the prover must have a way of specifying <math>\delta</math> ''as a function of'' <math>\varepsilon</math>.
in terms of the game. The skeptic first picks
the epsilon, okay? Now


0:12:27.790,0:12:30.779
The skeptic also chooses <math>x</math> in the next move. However, the prover has no way of knowing the value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to pick. Thus, in order for the prover to have a winning strategy, the prover's choice of <math>\delta</math> should be such that ''no matter what'' <math>x</math> the skeptic picks, the prover wins.
that we would have to choose the delta, but
there are really two cases


0:12:30.779,0:12:35.200
===Skeptic's strategy revisited===
on x, right? x rational and x irrational.
So the prover chooses the


0:12:35.200,0:12:39.459
The skeptic, in choosing a winning strategy, must specify the value of <math>\varepsilon</math> and then specify how to pick a value of <math>x</math> that works. When picking the value of <math>\varepsilon</math>, the skeptic does not know what <math>\delta</math> the prover will pick. Thus, the skeptic's choice of <math>\varepsilon</math> cannot be dependent on the prover's subsequent choice of <math>\delta</math>.
delta based on sort of whether the x is rational
or irrational, so if


0:12:39.459,0:12:43.880
However, when picking the value of <math>x</math>, the skeptic is aware of (and constrained by) the prover's choice of <math>\delta</math>.
the x is rational then the prover just picks
delta equals epsilon, and


0:12:43.880,0:12:48.339
==Misconceptions==
that's good enough for rational x, right?
Because for rational x the


0:12:48.339,0:12:51.410
Most misconceptions associated with the formal <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> definition of limit have to do with the ordering of the moves in the game, who's in charge of what move, and what information each person has at the time of making the move. We describe some common misconceptions below.
slope of the line is one so picking delta
as epsilon is good enough.


0:12:51.410,0:12:55.760
<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=F0r_offAc5M}}</center>
For irrational x, if the skeptic's planning
to choose an irrational x


0:12:55.760,0:12:59.730
Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay>
then the prover can just choose any delta
0:00:15.500,0:00:19.140
actually. Like just pick
Vipul: Okay. This talk is going to be about
certain misconceptions


0:12:59.730,0:13:03.880
0:00:19.140,0:00:22.440
the delta in advance. Like delta is one or
that people have regarding limits and these
something. Because if x is
are misconceptions that


0:13:03.880,0:13:10.430
0:00:22.440,0:00:25.840
irrational then it's like a constant function
people generally acquire after...
and therefore, like, for


0:13:10.430,0:13:14.970
0:00:25.840,0:00:29.180
any delta the function is trapped within epsilon
These are not the misconceptions that
distance of the given
people have before studying limits,


0:13:14.970,0:13:16.970
0:00:29.180,0:00:32.730
limit. Okay?
these are misconceptions you might have after
studying limits,


0:13:16.970,0:13:19.950
0:00:32.730,0:00:35.059
So the prover sort of makes two cases based
after studying the epsilon delta definition.
on whether the skeptic


0:13:19.950,0:13:26.950
0:00:35.059,0:00:38.550
will pick a rational or an irrational x and
I'm going to describe these misconceptions
sort of based on that if
in terms of the limit game,


0:13:27.040,0:13:30.730
0:00:38.550,0:00:41.900
it's rational this is the prover's strategy,
the prover skeptic game of the limit. Though
if it's irrational then
the misconceptions


0:13:30.730,0:13:34.050
0:00:41.900,0:00:45.850
the prover can just do any delta.
themselves don't depend on
the understanding of the


0:13:34.050,0:13:37.630
0:00:45.850,0:00:49.059
Can you tell me what's wrong with this proof?
game but to understand exactly what's  
happening, it's better to think


0:13:37.630,0:13:44.630
0:00:49.059,0:00:51.010
KM: So, you're still kind of basing it on
of it in terms of the game.
what the skeptic is going to


0:13:44.750,0:13:45.800
0:00:51.010,0:00:55.370
pick next.
First recall the definition. So limit as x
approaches c of f(x) is a


0:13:45.800,0:13:49.100
0:00:55.370,0:01:01.629
Vipul: Okay. It's actually pretty much the
number L; so c and L are both numbers, real
same problem [as the
numbers. f is a function,


0:13:49.100,0:13:55.449
0:01:01.629,0:01:06.380
preceding one], in a somewhat minor form.
x is approaching c. And we said this is true
The prover is sort of making
if the following -- for


0:13:55.449,0:13:59.959
0:01:06.380,0:01:10.180
cases based on what the skeptic is going to
every epsilon greater than zero, there exists
do next, and choosing a
a delta greater than


0:13:59.959,0:14:01.940
0:01:10.180,0:01:14.800
strategy according to that. But the prover
zero such that for all x which are within delta
doesn't actually know what
distance of c, f(x) is


0:14:01.940,0:14:05.089
0:01:14.800,0:01:17.590
the skeptic is going to do next, so the prover
within epsilon distance of L. Okay?
should actually have a


0:14:05.089,0:14:08.970
0:01:17.590,0:01:24.590
single strategy that works in both cases.
Now, how do we describe this in terms for
If cases will be made to
limit game?


0:14:08.970,0:14:12.209
0:01:26.530,0:01:33.530
prove that the strategy works so the prover
KM: So, skeptic starts off with the first
has to have a single
part of the definition.


0:14:12.209,0:14:12.459
0:01:34.990,0:01:38.189
strategy.
Vipul: By picking the epsilon? Okay, that's
the thing written in


0:14:12.449,0:14:15.370
0:01:38.189,0:01:42.939
Now in this case the strategy we can choose
black. What's the skeptic trying to do? What's the
the prover just, the
goal of the skeptic?


0:14:15.370,0:14:18.779
0:01:42.939,0:01:49.100
prover can pick delta as epsilon because that
KM: To try and pick an epsilon that would
will work in both cases.
not work.


0:14:18.779,0:14:20.019
0:01:49.100,0:01:53.450
KM: Exactly.
Vipul: So the goal of the skeptic is to try
to show that the statement is false.


0:14:20.019,0:14:23.320
0:01:53.450,0:01:54.100
Vipul: Yeah. But in general if you have two
KM: Yeah.
different piece


0:14:23.320,0:14:26.579
0:01:54.100,0:01:57.790
definitions then the way you would do it so
Vipul: Right? In this case the skeptic should
you would pick delta as
try to start by choosing


0:14:26.579,0:14:30.300
0:01:57.790,0:02:02.220
the min [minimum] of the delta that work in
an epsilon that is really [small] -- the goal of
the two different pieces,
the skeptic is to pick an


0:14:30.300,0:14:32.910
0:02:02.220,0:02:04.500
because you sort of want to make sure that
epsilon that's really small, what is the
both cases are covered. But
skeptic trying to challenge


0:14:32.910,0:14:36.730
0:02:04.500,0:02:07.920
the point is you have to do that -- take
the prover into doing by picking the epsilon?
the min use that rather than
The skeptic is trying to


0:14:36.730,0:14:39.730
0:02:07.920,0:02:11.959
just say, "I'm going to choose my delta
challenge the prover into trapping the function
based on what the skeptic is
close to L when x is


0:14:39.730,0:14:42.589
0:02:11.959,0:02:17.040
going to move next." Okay?
close to c. And the way the skeptic specifies
what is meant by "close to L" is


0:14:42.589,0:14:49.120
0:02:17.040,0:02:19.860
This is a minor form of the same misconception
by the choice of epsilon. Okay?
that that was there in


0:14:49.120,0:14:56.120
0:02:19.860,0:02:24.900
the previous example we saw.
When picking epsilon the skeptic is
effectively picking this interval, L -


0:15:04.620,0:15:11.620
0:02:24.900,0:02:30.700
So, this is what I call the mildly telepathic
epsilon, L + epsilon). Okay? And basically
prover, right? The
that's what the skeptic is


0:15:14.970,0:15:18.579
0:02:30.700,0:02:33.680
prover is still behaving telepathically
doing. The prover is then picking a delta.
predicting the skeptic's future
What is the goal of the


0:15:18.579,0:15:23.740
0:02:33.680,0:02:36.239
moves but it's not so bad. The prover is
prover in picking the delta? The prover is
just making, like, doing a
saying, "Here's how I can


0:15:23.740,0:15:25.470
0:02:36.239,0:02:40.099
coin toss type of telepathy. That isn't
trap the function within that interval. I'm
the only one the prover is
going to pick a delta and


0:15:25.470,0:15:30.790
0:02:40.099,0:02:43.520
actually, deciding exactly what x skeptic
my claim is that if the x value within delta distance of c, except the
would take. But it's still


0:15:30.790,0:15:32.790
0:02:43.520,0:02:47.000
the same problem and the reason why I think
point c itself, so my claim is for any x value
people will have this
there the function is


0:15:32.790,0:15:36.329
0:02:47.000,0:02:48.260
misconception is because they don't think
trapped in here."
about it in terms of the


0:15:36.329,0:15:38.970
0:02:48.260,0:02:52.819
sequence in which the moves are made, and
So, the prover picks the delta and then the
the information that each
skeptic tries to


0:15:38.970,0:15:45.970
0:02:52.819,0:02:56.709
body has at any given stage of the game.
test the prover's claim by picking an x


0:15:50.889,0:15:57.889
0:02:56.709,0:02:59.670
Let's do this one.
which is within the interval specified by
the prover and then they


0:16:10.930,0:16:15.259
0:02:59.670,0:03:03.379
So, this is a limit game, right? Let's say
both check whether f(x) is within epsilon
that limit as x approaches
distance [of L]. If it is


0:16:15.259,0:16:22.259
0:03:03.379,0:03:07.940
1 of 2x is 2, okay? How do we go about showing
then the prover wins and if it is not, if
this? Well, the idea is
this [|f(x) - L|]is not less


0:16:23.699,0:16:27.990
0:03:07.940,0:03:09.989
let's play the game, right? Let's say
than epsilon then the skeptic wins. Okay?
the skeptic it picks epsilon as


0:16:27.990,0:16:34.990
0:03:09.989,0:03:13.659
0.1, okay? The prover picks delta as 0.05.
So, the skeptic is picking the neighborhood
The skeptic is then picking
of the target point which


0:16:35.139,0:16:38.790
0:03:13.659,0:03:17.030
epsilon as 0.1, the skeptic is saying, "Please
in this case is just the open interval of
trap the function
radius epsilon, the prover


0:16:38.790,0:16:43.800
0:03:17.030,0:03:21.940
between 1.9 and 2.1. Okay? Find the delta
is picking the delta which is effectively the
small enough so that the
neighborhood of the domain


0:16:43.800,0:16:48.389
0:03:21.940,0:03:25.760
function value is dropped between 1.9 and
point except the point c as I've said open
2.1. The prover picks delta
interval (c - delta, c +


0:16:48.389,0:16:55.389
0:03:25.760,0:03:30.870
as 0.05 which means the prover is now getting
delta) excluding c and then the skeptic picks
the input value trap
an x in the neighborhood


0:16:57.850,0:17:04.850
0:03:30.870,0:03:35.700
between 0.95 and 1.05. That's 1 plus minus
specified by prover and if the function value
this thing. And now the
is within the interval


0:17:05.439,0:17:09.070
0:03:35.700,0:03:38.830
prover is claiming that if the x value is
specified by the skeptic then the prover wins.
within this much distance of


0:17:09.070,0:17:13.959
0:03:38.830,0:03:41.989
1 except the value equal to 1, then the function
Now, what does it mean to say the statement
value is within 0.1
is true in terms of the


0:17:13.959,0:17:17.630
0:03:41.989,0:03:43.080
distance of 2. So, the skeptic tries picking
game?
x within the interval


0:17:17.630,0:17:23.049
0:03:43.080,0:03:50.080
prescribed by the prover, so maybe the skeptic
KM: So, it means that the prover is always
picks 0.97 which is
going to win the game.


0:17:23.049,0:17:26.380
0:03:51.849,0:03:55.629
within 0.05 distance of 1.
Vipul: Well, sort of. I mean the prover may
play it stupidly. The


0:17:26.380,0:17:31.570
0:03:55.629,0:04:00.750
And then they check that f(x) is 1.94, that
prover can win the game if the prover plays
is at the distance of 0.06
well. So, the prover has a


0:17:31.570,0:17:38.570
0:04:00.750,0:04:03.230
from 2. So, it's within 0.1 of the claimed
winning strategy for the game. Okay?
limit. Who won the game?


0:17:38.780,0:17:42.650
0:04:05.230,0:04:10.299
If the thing is within the interval then who
The statement is true if the prover has a
wins?
winning strategy for the


0:17:42.650,0:17:43.320
0:04:10.299,0:04:14.090
KM: The prover.
game and that means the prover has a way
of playing the game such that


0:17:43.320,0:17:46.720
0:04:14.090,0:04:17.320
Vipul: The prover wins, right? So, the prover
whatever the skeptic does the prover is going
won again so therefore
to win the game. The


0:17:46.720,0:17:52.100
0:04:17.320,0:04:20.789
this limit statement is true, right? So, what's
statement is considered false if the skeptic
wrong with this as a
has a winning strategy


0:17:52.100,0:17:57.370
0:04:20.789,0:04:23.370
proof that the limit statement is true? How
for the game which means the skeptic has a
is this not a proof that
way of playing so that


0:17:57.370,0:18:03.870
0:04:23.370,0:04:25.729
the limit statement is true? This what I've
whatever the prover does the skeptic can win
written here, why is that
the game.


0:18:03.870,0:18:05.990
0:04:25.729,0:04:27.599
not a proof that the limit statement is true?
Or if the game doesn't make sense at all
...


0:18:05.990,0:18:11.960
0:04:27.599,0:04:29.460
KM: Because it's only an example for the
maybe the function is not defined on
specific choice of epsilon and x.


0:18:11.960,0:18:16.200
0:04:29.460,0:04:31.050
Vipul: Yes, exactly. So, it's like a single
the immediate left and right of c.
play of the game, the


0:18:16.200,0:18:20.470
0:04:31.050,0:04:32.370
prover wins, but the limit statement doesn't
If the function isn't defined then we
just say that the prover


0:18:20.470,0:18:24.380
0:04:32.370,0:04:34.160
wins the game, it says the prover has a winning
cannot even make sense of the statement.
strategy. It says that


0:18:24.380,0:18:27.660
0:04:34.160,0:04:36.990
the prover can win the game regardless of
Either way -- the skeptic has a winning strategy
how the skeptic plays;


0:18:27.660,0:18:31.070
0:04:36.990,0:04:37.770
there's a way for the prover to do that.
or the game doesn't make sense --
This just gives one example


0:18:31.070,0:18:34.640
0:04:41.770,0:04:43.470
where the prover won the game, but it doesn't
then the statement is false.
tell us that regardless


0:18:34.640,0:18:37.280
0:04:43.470,0:04:47.660
of the epsilon the skeptic takes the prover
If the prover has a winning strategy
can pick a delta such that
the statement is true.


0:18:37.280,0:18:41.090
0:04:47.660,0:04:54.660
regardless of the x the skeptic picks, the
With this background in mind let's look
function is within the
at some common misconceptions.


0:18:41.090,0:18:45.530
0:04:56.540,0:05:03.540
thing. So that's what they should do. Okay?
Okay. Let's say we are trying to prove that
the limit as x approaches


0:18:45.530,0:18:51.160
0:05:27.620,0:05:31.530
Now you notice -- I'm sure you notice this
2 of x^2 is 4, so is that statement correct?
but the way the game and the
The statement we're


0:18:51.160,0:18:58.160
0:05:31.530,0:05:32.060
limit definition. The way the limit definition
trying to prove?
goes, you see that all


0:18:59.870,0:19:04.260
0:05:32.060,0:05:32.680
the moves of the skeptic be right "for every"
KM: Yes.
"for all." Right? And


0:19:04.260,0:19:07.390
0:05:32.680,0:05:35.960
for all the moves of the prover it's "there
Vipul: That's correct. Because in fact x^2
exists." Why do we do
is a continuous function


0:19:07.390,0:19:11.140
0:05:35.960,0:05:40.160
that? Because we are trying to get a winning
and the limit of a continuous function at
strategy for the prover,
the point is just the


0:19:11.140,0:19:14.309
0:05:40.160,0:05:43.030
so the prover controls his own moves. Okay?
value at the point and 2^2 is 4. But we're
going to now try to prove


0:19:14.309,0:19:15.250
0:05:43.030,0:05:48.530
KM: Exactly.
this formally using the epsilon-delta definition
of limit, okay? Now


0:19:15.250,0:19:18.630
0:05:48.530,0:05:51.229
Vipul: So, therefore wherever it's a prover
in terms of the epsilon-delta definition or
move it will be a there
rather in terms of this


0:19:18.630,0:19:22.240
0:05:51.229,0:05:55.160
exists. Where there is a skeptic's move
game setup, what we need to do is we need
the prover has to be prepared
to describe a winning


0:19:22.240,0:19:29.240
0:05:55.160,0:06:01.460
for anything the skeptic does. All those moves
strategy for the prover. Okay? We need to
are "for every."
describe delta in terms of


0:19:30.559,0:19:33.850
0:06:01.460,0:06:05.240
One last one. By the way, this one was called,
epsilon. The prover essentially ... the only
"You say you want a
move the prover makes is


0:19:33.850,0:19:36.870
0:06:05.240,0:06:09.130
replay?" Which is basically they're just
this choice of delta. Right? The skeptic picked
saying that just one play is
epsilon, the prover


0:19:36.870,0:19:40.890
0:06:09.130,0:06:12.810
not good enough. If the statement is actually
picked delta then the skeptic picks x and
true, the prover should
then they judge who won. The


0:19:40.890,0:19:45.370
0:06:12.810,0:06:15.810
be willing to accept the skeptic ones, the
only choice the prover makes is the choice
reply and say they want to
of delta, right?


0:19:45.370,0:19:47.679
0:06:15.810,0:06:16.979
play it again, the prover should say "sure"
KM: Exactly.
and "I'm going to win


0:19:47.679,0:19:53.320
0:06:16.979,0:06:20.080
again." That's what it would mean for
Vipul: The prover has to specify delta in terms
the limit statement to be true.
of epsilon.


0:19:53.320,0:20:00.320
0:06:20.080,0:06:24.819
One last one. Just kind of pretty similar
So, here is my strategy. My strategy is I'm
to the one we just saw. Just
going to choose delta as,


0:20:16.690,0:20:23.690
0:06:24.819,0:06:29.509
a little different.
I as a prover is going to choose delta as
epsilon over the absolute


0:20:39.020,0:20:46.020
0:06:29.509,0:06:33.690
Okay, this one, let's see. We are saying
value of x plus 2 [|x + 2|]. Okay?
that the limit as x


0:20:50.450,0:20:56.900
0:06:33.690,0:06:36.880
approaches zero of sin(1/x) is zero, right?
Now, what I want to show that this strategy
Let's see how we prove
works. So, what I'm claiming


0:20:56.900,0:21:01.409
0:06:36.880,0:06:39.840
this. If the statement true ... well, do you
is that if ... so let me just finish this
think the statement is
and then you can tell me where


0:21:01.409,0:21:08.409
0:06:39.840,0:06:43.419
true? As x approach to zero, is sin 1 over
I went wrong here, okay? I'm claiming that
x approaching zero? So
this strategy works which


0:21:13.980,0:21:20.980
0:06:43.419,0:06:47.130
here's the picture of sin(1/x). y-axis.
means I'm claiming that if the skeptic now
It's an oscillatory function
picks any x which is within


0:21:22.010,0:21:27.870
0:06:47.130,0:06:54.130
and it has this kind of picture. Does it doesn't
delta distance of 2; the target point,
go to zero as x


0:21:27.870,0:21:29.270
0:06:56.710,0:07:01.490
approaches zero?
then the function value is within epsilon
distance of 4, the claimed


0:21:29.270,0:21:30.669
0:07:01.490,0:07:04.080
KM: No.
limit. That's what I want to show.


0:21:30.669,0:21:35.539
0:07:04.080,0:07:08.300
Vipul: No. So, you said that this statement
Now is that true? Well, here's how I do
is false, but I'm going to
it. I say, I start by


0:21:35.539,0:21:38.700
0:07:08.300,0:07:13.539
try to show it's true. Here's how I do
taking this expression, I factor it as
that. Let's say the skeptic
|x - 2||x + 2|. The absolute


0:21:38.700,0:21:44.510
0:07:13.539,0:07:16.810
picks epsilon as two, okay? And then the prover
value of product is the product of the absolute
... so, the epsilon is
values so this can be


0:21:44.510,0:21:48.520
0:07:16.810,0:07:21.599
two so that's the interval of width two
split like that. Now I say, well, we know
about the game limit zero. The
that |x - 2| is less than


0:21:48.520,0:21:55.150
0:07:21.599,0:07:24.979
prover picks delta as 1/pi. Whatever x the
delta and this is a positive thing. So we
skeptic picks, okay?
can write this as less than delta


0:21:55.150,0:22:02.150
0:07:24.979,0:07:31.979
Regardless of the x that the
times absolute value x plus 2. Right? And
skeptic picks, the function is trapped
this delta is epsilon over
within epsilon of the game limit. Is that


0:22:10.340,0:22:16.900
0:07:35.599,0:07:37.620
true? Yes, because sin
|x + 2| and we get epsilon.
(1/x) is between minus 1 and 1, right? Therefore


0:22:16.900,0:22:20.100
0:07:37.620,0:07:40.460
since the skeptic
So, this thing equals something, less than
picked an epsilon of 2, the function value
something, equals


0:22:20.100,0:22:24.030
0:07:40.460,0:07:43.580
is completely trapped in
something, equals something, you have a chain
the interval from -1 to 1, so therefore the
of things, there's one


0:22:24.030,0:22:27.919
0:07:43.580,0:07:47.720
prover managed to trap it
step that you have less than. So overall we
within distance of 2 of the claimed limit zero.
get that this expression,


0:22:27.919,0:22:30.970
0:07:47.720,0:07:53.740
Okay? Regardless of what
this thing is less than epsilon. So, we have
the skeptic does, right? It's not just saying
shown that whatever x the


0:22:30.970,0:22:34.370
0:07:53.740,0:08:00.370
that the prover won the
skeptic would pick, the function value lies
game once, it's saying whatever x the skeptic
within the epsilon


0:22:34.370,0:22:40.740
0:08:00.370,0:08:05.030
picks the prover can
distance of the claimed limit. As long as the skeptic picks x within
still win the game. Right? Regardless if the


0:22:40.740,0:22:43.780
0:08:05.030,0:08:09.240
x is skeptic picks, the
delta distance of the target point.
prover picked a delta such that the function


0:22:43.780,0:22:48.100
0:08:09.240,0:08:16.240
is trapped. It's
Does this strategy work? Is this a proof?
completely trapped, okay? It's not an issue
What's wrong with this?


0:22:48.100,0:22:51.130
0:08:24.270,0:08:31.270
of whether the skeptic
Do you think there's anything wrong
picks the stupid x. Do you think that this
with the algebra I've done here?


0:22:51.130,0:22:52.130
0:08:33.510,0:08:40.510
proves the statement?
KM: Well, we said that ...


0:22:52.130,0:22:59.130
0:08:40.910,0:08:47.910
KM: No, I mean in this case it still depended
Vipul: So, is there anything wrong in the
on the epsilon that the
algebra here? This is this,


0:23:01.030,0:23:01.820
0:08:50.160,0:08:51.740
skeptic chose.
this is less than delta, delta ... So, this
part


0:23:01.820,0:23:04.980
0:08:51.740,0:08:52.089
Vipul: It's still dependent on the epsilon
seems fine, right?
that the skeptic chose? So,


0:23:04.980,0:23:05.679
0:08:52.089,0:08:52.339
yes, that's exactly the problem.
KM: Yes.


0:23:05.679,0:23:09.370
0:08:52.330,0:08:55.640
So, we proved that the statement -- we prove
Vipul: There's nothing wrong in the algebra
that from this part onward
here. So, what could be


0:23:09.370,0:23:12.500
0:08:55.640,0:09:00.310
but it still, we didn't prove it for all
wrong? Our setup seems fine. If the x value
epsilon, we only prove for
is within delta distance


0:23:12.500,0:23:16.309
0:09:00.310,0:09:03.350
epsilon is 2, and 2 is a very big number,
of 2 then the function value is within epsilon
right? Because the
distance of 4. That's


0:23:16.309,0:23:19.970
0:09:03.350,0:09:05.360
oscillation is all happening between minus
exactly what we want to prove, right?
1 and 1, and if in fact the


0:23:19.970,0:23:26.970
0:09:05.360,0:09:11.120
skeptic had pick epsilon as 1 or something
So, there's nothing wrong this point onward.
smaller than 1 then the two
So, the error happened


0:23:27.030,0:23:32.169
0:09:11.120,0:09:14.440
epsilon strip width would not cover the entire
somewhere here. What do you think
-1, +1
was wrong


0:23:32.169,0:23:35.490
0:09:14.440,0:09:21.160
interval, and then whatever the prover did
here? In the strategy choice step? What do
the skeptic could actually
you think went wrong in the


0:23:35.490,0:23:39.530
0:09:21.160,0:09:24.010
pick an x and show that it's not trapped.
strategy choice step?
So, in fact the reason why


0:23:39.530,0:23:43.110
0:09:24.010,0:09:28.850
the prover could win the game from this point
Well, okay, so in what order do they play their moves?
onward is that the
Skeptic will choose the epsilon,


0:23:43.110,0:23:45.900
0:09:28.850,0:09:29.760
skeptic made of stupid choice of epsilon.
then?
Okay?


0:23:45.900,0:23:52.289
0:09:29.760,0:09:35.130
In all these situation, all these misconceptions,
KM: Then the prover chooses delta.
the main problem is,


0:23:52.289,0:23:58.919
0:09:35.130,0:09:36.080
that we're not ... keeping in mind the order
Vipul: Prover chooses delta. Then?
which the moves I made


0:23:58.919,0:24:04.179
0:09:36.080,0:09:39.529
and how much information each claim has at
KM: Then the skeptic has to choose the x value.
the stage where that move


0:24:04.179,0:24:04.789
0:09:39.529,0:09:42.470
is being made.</toggledisplay>
Vipul: x value. So, when the prover is deciding
the strategy, when the


==Misconceptions==
0:09:42.470,0:09:45.860
prover is choosing the delta, what information
does the prover have?


Most misconceptions associated with the formal <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> definition of limit have to do with the ordering of the moves in the game, who's in charge of what move, and what information each person has at the time of making the move. We describe some common misconceptions below.
0:09:45.860,0:09:48.410
KM: He just has the information  on epsilon.


<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=Kms_VHwgdZ8}}</center>
0:09:48.410,0:09:50.500
Vipul: Just the information on epsilon. So?


Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay>
0:09:50.500,0:09:57.060
0:00:15.500,0:00:19.140
KM: So, in this case the mistake was that
Vipul: Okay. This talk is going to be about
because he didn't know the x value yet?
certain misconceptions


0:00:19.140,0:00:22.440
0:09:57.060,0:10:03.100
that people have regarding limits and these
Vipul: The strategy cannot depend on x.
are misconceptions that


0:00:22.440,0:00:25.840
0:10:03.100,0:10:04.800
people generally acquire after...
KM: Yeah.


0:00:25.840,0:00:29.180
0:10:04.800,0:10:09.790
These are not the misconceptions that
Vipul: So, the prover is picking the
people have before studying limits,
delta based on x but the


0:00:29.180,0:00:32.730
0:10:09.790,0:10:12.660
these are misconceptions you might have after
prover doesn't know x at this stage when
studying limits,
picking the delta. The delta


0:00:32.730,0:00:35.059
0:10:12.660,0:10:15.910
after studying the epsilon delta definition.
that the prover chooses has to be completely
a function of epsilon


0:00:35.059,0:00:38.550
0:10:15.910,0:10:19.680
I'm going to describe these misconceptions
alone, it cannot depend on the future moves
in terms of the limit game,
of the skeptic because the


0:00:38.550,0:00:41.900
0:10:19.680,0:10:23.700
the prover skeptic game of the limit. Though
prover cannot read the skeptic's mind. Okay?
the misconceptions
And doesn't know what the


0:00:41.900,0:00:45.850
0:10:23.700,0:10:24.800
themselves can be, sort of, don't depend
skeptic plans to do.
on the understanding of the


0:00:45.850,0:00:49.059
0:10:24.800,0:10:31.800
game but to understand exactly what's  
So that is the ... that's the proof. I call
happening, it's better to think
this the ...


0:00:49.059,0:00:51.010
0:10:42.240,0:10:43.040
of it in terms of the game.
Can you see what I call this?


0:00:51.010,0:00:55.370
0:10:43.040,0:10:45.399
First recall the definition. So limit as x
KM: The strongly telepathic prover.
approaches c of f(x) is a


0:00:55.370,0:01:01.629
0:10:45.399,0:10:51.470
number L; so c and L are both numbers, real
Vipul: So, do you know what I meant by that?
numbers. f is a function,
Well, I meant the prover


0:01:01.629,0:01:06.380
0:10:51.470,0:10:58.470
x is approaching c. And we said this is true
is reading the skeptic's mind. All
if the following -- for
right? It's called telepathy.


0:01:06.380,0:01:10.180
0:11:07.769,0:11:10.329
every epsilon greater than zero, there exists
a delta greater than


0:01:10.180,0:01:14.800
0:11:10.329,0:11:17.329
zero such that for all x which are given delta
Okay, the next one.
distance of c, f(x) is


0:01:14.800,0:01:17.590
0:11:25.589,0:11:30.230
within epsilon distance of L. Okay?
This one says there's a function defined piecewise. Okay? It's defined


0:01:17.590,0:01:24.590
0:11:30.230,0:11:34.829
Now, how do we describe this in terms for
as g(x) is x when x is rational and zero when
limit game?
x is irrational. So,


0:01:26.530,0:01:33.530
0:11:34.829,0:11:41.829
KM: So, skeptic starts off with the first
what would this look like? Well, pictorially, there's a line y
part of the definition.


0:01:34.990,0:01:38.189
0:11:42.750,0:11:49.510
Vipul: By picking the epsilon? Okay, that's
equals x and there's the x-axis and the
the thing written in
graph is just the irrational x


0:01:38.189,0:01:42.939
0:11:49.510,0:11:52.750
black. What's the skeptic trying to do? What's the
coordinate parts of this line and the rational
goal of the skeptic?
x coordinate parts of


0:01:42.939,0:01:49.100
0:11:52.750,0:11:56.350
KM: To try and pick an epsilon that would
this line. It's kind of like both these
not work.
lines but only parts of


0:01:49.100,0:01:53.450
0:11:56.350,0:11:58.529
Vipul: So the goal of the skeptic is to try
them. Right?
to show that the statement is false.


0:01:53.450,0:01:54.100
0:11:58.529,0:12:02.079
KM: Yeah.
Now we want to show that limit as x approaches
zero of g(x) is


0:01:54.100,0:01:57.790
0:12:02.079,0:12:06.899
Vipul: Right? In this case the skeptic should
zero. So just intuitively, do you think the statement
try to start by choosing
is true? As x goes


0:01:57.790,0:02:02.220
0:12:06.899,0:12:09.910
an epsilon that is really -- the goal of
to zero, does this function go to zero?
the skeptic is to pick an


0:02:02.220,0:02:04.500
0:12:09.910,0:12:10.610
epsilon that's really small, what is the
KM: Yes.
skeptic trying to challenge


0:02:04.500,0:02:07.920
0:12:10.610,0:12:17.610
the prover into doing by picking the epsilon?
Vipul: Because both the pieces are going to
The skeptic is trying to
zero. That's the intuition. Okay?


0:02:07.920,0:02:11.959
0:12:20.610,0:12:24.089
challenge the prover into trapping the function
This is the proof we have here. So the idea
close to L when x is
is we again think about it


0:02:11.959,0:02:17.040
0:12:24.089,0:12:27.790
close to c. And the skeptic specifies what
in terms of the game. The skeptic first picks
is meant by "close to L" is
the epsilon, okay? Now


0:02:17.040,0:02:19.860
0:12:27.790,0:12:30.779
by the choice of epsilon. Okay?
the prover has to choose the delta, but
there are really two cases


0:02:19.860,0:02:24.900
0:12:30.779,0:12:35.200
When picking epsilon the skeptic is
on x, right? x rational and x irrational.
effectively picking this interval, L -
So the prover chooses the


0:02:24.900,0:02:30.700
0:12:35.200,0:12:39.459
epsilon, L + epsilon). Okay? And basically
delta based on whether the x is rational
that's what the skeptic is
or irrational, so if


0:02:30.700,0:02:33.680
0:12:39.459,0:12:43.880
doing. The prover is then picking a delta.
the x is rational then the prover just picks
What is the goal of the
delta equals epsilon, and


0:02:33.680,0:02:36.239
0:12:43.880,0:12:48.339
prover in picking the delta? The prover is
that's good enough for rational x, right?
saying, "Here's how I can
Because for rational x the


0:02:36.239,0:02:40.099
0:12:48.339,0:12:51.410
trap the function within that interval. I'm
slope of the line is one so picking delta
going to pick a delta and
as epsilon is good enough.


0:02:40.099,0:02:43.520
0:12:51.410,0:12:55.760
my claim is that if the x value within delta distance of c, except the
For irrational x, if the skeptic's planning
to choose an irrational x


0:02:43.520,0:02:47.000
0:12:55.760,0:12:59.730
point c itself, so my claim is for any x value
then the prover can just choose any delta
there the function is
actually. Like just fix


0:02:47.000,0:02:48.260
0:12:59.730,0:13:03.880
trapped in here."
a delta in advance. Like delta is one or
something. Because if x is


0:02:48.260,0:02:52.819
0:13:03.880,0:13:10.430
So, the prover picks the delta and then the
irrational then it's like a constant function
skeptic tries to meet the
and therefore, like, for


0:02:52.819,0:02:56.709
0:13:10.430,0:13:14.970
prover's claim or rather, test the prover's
any delta the function is trapped within epsilon
claim by picking an x
distance of the claimed


0:02:56.709,0:02:59.670
0:13:14.970,0:13:16.970
which is within the interval specified by
limit zero. Okay?
the prover and then they


0:02:59.670,0:03:03.379
0:13:16.970,0:13:19.950
both check whether f(x) is within epsilon
So the prover makes two cases based
distance [of L]. If it is
on whether the skeptic is going


0:03:03.379,0:03:07.940
0:13:19.950,0:13:26.950
then the prover wins and if it is not, if
to pick a rational or an irrational x
this [|f(x) - L|]is not less
and based on that if


0:03:07.940,0:03:09.989
0:13:27.040,0:13:30.730
than epsilon then the skeptic wins. Okay?
it's rational this is the prover's strategy,
if it's irrational then


0:03:09.989,0:03:13.659
0:13:30.730,0:13:34.050
So, the skeptic is picking the neighborhood
the prover can just pick any delta.
of the target point which


0:03:13.659,0:03:17.030
0:13:34.050,0:13:37.630
in this case is just the open interval of
Can you tell me what's wrong with this proof?
radius epsilon, the prover


0:03:17.030,0:03:21.940
0:13:37.630,0:13:44.630
is picking the delta which is effectively the
KM: So, he [the prover] is still kind of
neighborhood of the domain
basing it on what the skeptic is going to


0:03:21.940,0:03:25.760
0:13:44.750,0:13:45.800
point except the point c as I've said open
pick next.
interval (c - delta, c +


0:03:25.760,0:03:30.870
0:13:45.800,0:13:49.100
delta) excluding c and then the skeptic picks
Vipul: Okay. It's actually pretty much the
an x in the neighborhood
same problem [as the


0:03:30.870,0:03:35.700
0:13:49.100,0:13:55.449
specified by prover and if the function value
preceding one], in a somewhat milder form.
is within the interval
The prover is making


0:03:35.700,0:03:38.830
0:13:55.449,0:13:59.959
specified by the skeptic then the prover wins.
cases based on what the skeptic is going to
do next, and choosing a


0:03:38.830,0:03:41.989
0:13:59.959,0:14:01.940
Now, what does it mean to say the statement
strategy according to that. But the prover
is true in terms of the
doesn't actually know what


0:03:41.989,0:03:43.080
0:14:01.940,0:14:05.089
game?
the skeptic is going to do next, so the prover
should actually have a


0:03:43.080,0:03:50.080
0:14:05.089,0:14:08.970
KM: So, it means that the prover is always
single strategy that works in both cases.
going to win the game.
So cases will be made to


0:03:51.849,0:03:55.629
0:14:08.970,0:14:12.209
Vipul: Well, sort of. I mean the prover may
prove that the strategy works but the prover
play it stupidly. The
has to have a single


0:03:55.629,0:04:00.750
0:14:12.209,0:14:12.459
prover can win the game if the prover plays
strategy.
well. So, the prover has a


0:04:00.750,0:04:03.230
0:14:12.449,0:14:15.370
winning strategy for the game. Okay?
Now in this case the correct way of doing the proof is just, the


0:04:05.230,0:04:10.299
0:14:15.370,0:14:18.779
The statement is true if the prover has a
prover can pick delta as epsilon because that
winning strategy for [the
will work in both cases.


0:04:10.299,0:04:14.090
0:14:18.779,0:14:20.019
game] and that means the prover has a way
KM: Exactly.
of playing the game such that


0:04:14.090,0:04:17.320
0:14:20.019,0:14:23.320
whatever the skeptic does the prover is going
Vipul: Yeah. But in general if you have two
to win the game. The
different piece


0:04:17.320,0:04:20.789
0:14:23.320,0:14:26.579
statement is considered false if the skeptic
definitions then the way you would do it so
has a winning strategy
you would pick delta as


0:04:20.789,0:04:23.370
0:14:26.579,0:14:30.300
for the game which means the skeptic has a
the min [minimum] of the deltas that work in
way of playing so that
the two different pieces,


0:04:23.370,0:04:25.729
0:14:30.300,0:14:32.910
whatever the prover does the skeptic can win
because you want to make sure that
the game.
both cases are covered. But


0:04:25.729,0:04:27.599
0:14:32.910,0:14:36.730
Or if the game doesn't make sense at all
the point is you have to do that -- take
...
the min use that rather than


0:04:27.599,0:04:29.460
0:14:36.730,0:14:39.730
maybe the function is not defined on
just say, "I'm going to choose my delta
based on what the skeptic is


0:04:29.460,0:04:31.050
0:14:39.730,0:14:42.589
the immediate left and right of c.
going to move next." Okay?


0:04:31.050,0:04:32.370
0:14:42.589,0:14:49.120
If the function isn't defined then we
So this is a milder form of the same
misconception that that was there in


0:04:32.370,0:04:34.160
0:14:49.120,0:14:56.120
cannot even make sense of the statement.
the previous example we saw.


0:04:34.160,0:04:36.990
0:15:04.620,0:15:11.620
Either way -- the skeptic has a winning strategy
So, this is what I call the mildly telepathic
prover, right? The


0:04:36.990,0:04:37.770
0:15:14.970,0:15:18.579
or the game doesn't make sense --
prover is still behaving telepathically
predicting the skeptic's future


0:04:41.770,0:04:43.470
0:15:18.579,0:15:23.740
then the statement is false.
moves but it's not so bad. The prover is
just making, like, doing a


0:04:43.470,0:04:47.660
0:15:23.740,0:15:25.470
If the prover has a winning strategy
coin toss type of telepathy. Whereas in the
the statement is true.
earlier one is prover is


0:04:47.660,0:04:54.660
0:15:25.470,0:15:30.790
With this background in mind let's look
actually, deciding exactly what x the skeptic
at some common misconceptions.
would pick. But it's still


0:04:56.540,0:05:03.540
0:15:30.790,0:15:32.790
Okay. Let's say we are trying to prove that
the same problem and the reason why I think
the limit as x approaches
people will have this


0:05:27.620,0:05:31.530
0:15:32.790,0:15:36.329
2 of x^2 is 4, so is that statement correct?
misconception is because they don't think
The statement we're
about it in terms of the


0:05:31.530,0:05:32.060
0:15:36.329,0:15:38.970
trying to prove?
sequence in which the moves are made, and
the information that each


0:05:32.060,0:05:32.680
0:15:38.970,0:15:45.970
KM: Yes.
party has at any given stage of the game.


0:05:32.680,0:05:35.960
0:15:50.889,0:15:57.889
Vipul: That's correct. Because in fact x^2
Let's do this one.
is a continuous function


0:05:35.960,0:05:40.160
0:16:10.930,0:16:15.259
and the limit of a continuous function at
So, this is a limit claim, right? It says
the point is just the
that the limit as x approaches


0:05:40.160,0:05:43.030
0:16:15.259,0:16:22.259
value at the point and 2^2 is 4. But we're
1 of 2x is 2, okay? How do we go about showing
going to now try to prove
this? Well, the idea is


0:05:43.030,0:05:48.530
0:16:23.699,0:16:27.990
this formally using the epsilon-delta definition
let's play the game, right? Let's say
of limit, okay? Now
the skeptic picks epsilon as


0:05:48.530,0:05:51.229
0:16:27.990,0:16:34.990
in terms of the epsilon-delta definition or
0.1, okay? The prover picks delta as 0.05.
rather in terms of this
The skeptic is when picking


0:05:51.229,0:05:55.160
0:16:35.139,0:16:38.790
game setup, what we need to do is we need
epsilon as 0.1, the skeptic is saying, "Please
to describe a winning
trap the function


0:05:55.160,0:06:01.460
0:16:38.790,0:16:43.800
strategy for the prover. Okay? We need to
between 1.9 and 2.1. Okay? Find the delta
describe delta in terms of
small enough so that the


0:06:01.460,0:06:05.240
0:16:43.800,0:16:48.389
epsilon. The prover essentially ... the only
function value is trapped between 1.9 and
move the prover makes is
2.1. The prover picks delta


0:06:05.240,0:06:09.130
0:16:48.389,0:16:55.389
this choice of delta. Right? The skeptic picked
as 0.05 which means the prover is now getting
epsilon, the prover
the input value trapped


0:06:09.130,0:06:12.810
0:16:57.850,0:17:04.850
picked delta then the skeptic picks x and
between 0.95 and 1.05. That's 1 plus minus
then they judge who won. The
this thing. And now the


0:06:12.810,0:06:15.810
0:17:05.439,0:17:09.070
only choice the prover makes is the choice
prover is claiming that if the x value is
of delta, right?
within this much distance of


0:06:15.810,0:06:16.979
0:17:09.070,0:17:13.959
KM: Exactly.
1 except the value equal to 1, then the function
value is within 0.1


0:06:16.979,0:06:20.080
0:17:13.959,0:17:17.630
Vipul: The prover chooses the delta in terms
distance of 2. So, the skeptic tries picking
of epsilon.
x within the interval


0:06:20.080,0:06:24.819
0:17:17.630,0:17:23.049
So, here is my strategy. My strategy is I'm
specified by the prover, so maybe the skeptic
going to choose delta as,
picks 0.97 which is


0:06:24.819,0:06:29.509
0:17:23.049,0:17:26.380
I as a prover is going to choose delta as
within 0.05 distance of 1.
epsilon over the absolute


0:06:29.509,0:06:33.690
0:17:26.380,0:17:31.570
value of x plus 2 [|x + 2|]. Okay?
And then they check that 2x [the function f(x)] is
1.94, that is at the distance of 0.06


0:06:33.690,0:06:36.880
0:17:31.570,0:17:38.570
Now, what I want to show that this strategy
from 2. So, it's within 0.1 of the claimed
works. So, what I'm aiming
limit 2. So who won the game?


0:06:36.880,0:06:39.840
0:17:38.780,0:17:42.650
is that if ... so let me just finish this
If the thing is within the interval then who
and then you can tell me where
wins?


0:06:39.840,0:06:43.419
0:17:42.650,0:17:43.320
I went wrong here, okay? I'm claiming that
KM: The prover.
this strategy works which


0:06:43.419,0:06:47.130
0:17:43.320,0:17:46.720
means I'm claiming that if the skeptic now
Vipul: The prover wins, right? So, the prover
picks any x which is within
won the game so therefore


0:06:47.130,0:06:54.130
0:17:46.720,0:17:52.100
delta distance of 2; the target point,
this limit statement is true, right? So, what's
wrong with this as a


0:06:56.710,0:07:01.490
0:17:52.100,0:17:57.370
then the function value is within epsilon
proof that the limit statement is true? How
distance of 4, the claimed
is this not a proof that


0:07:01.490,0:07:04.080
0:17:57.370,0:18:03.870
limit. That's what I want to show.
the limit statement is true? This what I've
written here, why is that


0:07:04.080,0:07:08.300
0:18:03.870,0:18:05.990
Now is that true? Well, here's how I do
not a proof that the limit statement is true?
it. I think, I started by


0:07:08.300,0:07:13.539
0:18:05.990,0:18:11.960
picking this expression, I factored it as
KM: Because it's only an example for the
|x - 2||x + 2|. The absolute
specific choice of epsilon and x.


0:07:13.539,0:07:16.810
0:18:11.960,0:18:16.200
value of product is the product of the absolute
Vipul: Yes, exactly. So, it's like a single
values so this can be
play of the game, the


0:07:16.810,0:07:21.599
0:18:16.200,0:18:20.470
split like that. Now I see, while we know
prover wins, but the limit statement doesn't
that |x - 2| is less than
just say that the prover


0:07:21.599,0:07:24.979
0:18:20.470,0:18:24.380
delta and this is a positive thing. So we
wins the game, it says the prover has a winning
can either less than delta
strategy. It says that


0:07:24.979,0:07:31.979
0:18:24.380,0:18:27.660
times absolute value x plus 2. Right? And
the prover can win the game regardless of
this delta is epsilon over
how the skeptic plays;


0:07:35.599,0:07:37.620
0:18:27.660,0:18:31.070
|x + 2| and we get epsilon.
there's a way for the prover to do that.
This just gives one example


0:07:37.620,0:07:40.460
0:18:31.070,0:18:34.640
So, this thing equals something, less than
where the prover won the game, but it doesn't
something, equals
tell us that regardless


0:07:40.460,0:07:43.580
0:18:34.640,0:18:37.280
something, equals something, you have a chain
of the epsilon the skeptic picks the prover
of things, there's one
can pick a delta such that


0:07:43.580,0:07:47.720
0:18:37.280,0:18:41.090
step that you have less than. So overall we
regardless of the x the skeptic picks, the
get that this expression,
function is within the


0:07:47.720,0:07:53.740
0:18:41.090,0:18:45.530
this thing is less than epsilon. So, we have
thing. So that's the issue here. Okay?
shown that whatever x the


0:07:53.740,0:08:00.370
0:18:45.530,0:18:51.160
skeptic would pick, the function value lies
Now you notice -- I'm sure you've noticed
within the epsilon
this but the way the game and the


0:08:00.370,0:08:05.030
0:18:51.160,0:18:58.160
distance of the claimed limit. Whatever the
limit definition. The way the limit definition
skeptic picks (x within the
goes, you see that all


0:08:05.030,0:08:09.240
0:18:59.870,0:19:04.260
delta distance of the target point).
the moves of the skeptic we write "for every"
"for all." Right? And


0:08:09.240,0:08:16.240
0:19:04.260,0:19:07.390
Does this strategy work? Is this a proof?
for all the moves of the prover we write "there
What's wrong with this?
exists." Why do we do


0:08:24.270,0:08:31.270
0:19:07.390,0:19:11.140
Do you think there's anything wrong
that? Because we are trying to get a winning
with the algebra down here?
strategy for the prover,


0:08:33.510,0:08:40.510
0:19:11.140,0:19:14.309
KM: Well, we said that ...
so the prover controls his own moves. Okay?


0:08:40.910,0:08:47.910
0:19:14.309,0:19:15.250
Vipul: So, is there anything wrong in the
KM: Exactly.
algebra here? This is this,


0:08:50.160,0:08:51.740
0:19:15.250,0:19:18.630
this is less than delta, delta ... So, this
Vipul: So, therefore wherever it's a prover
part
move it will be a there


0:08:51.740,0:08:52.089
0:19:18.630,0:19:22.240
seems fine, right?
exists. Where there is a skeptic's move
the prover has to be prepared


0:08:52.089,0:08:52.339
0:19:22.240,0:19:29.240
KM: Yes.
for anything the skeptic does. All those moves
are "for every."


0:08:52.330,0:08:55.640
0:19:30.559,0:19:33.850
Vipul: There's nothing wrong in the algebra
One last one. By the way, this one was called,
here. So, what could be
"You say you want a


0:08:55.640,0:09:00.310
0:19:33.850,0:19:36.870
wrong? Our setup seems fine. If the x value
replay?" Which is basically they're just
is within delta distance
saying that just one play is


0:09:00.310,0:09:03.350
0:19:36.870,0:19:40.890
of 2 then the function value is within epsilon
not good enough. If the statement is actually
this is 4. That's
true, the prover should


0:09:03.350,0:09:05.360
0:19:40.890,0:19:45.370
exactly what we want to prove, correct?
be willing to accept it if the skeptic wants a
replay and say they want to


0:09:05.360,0:09:11.120
0:19:45.370,0:19:47.679
So, there's nothing wrong this point onward.
play it again, the prover should say "sure"
So, the error happened
and "I'm going to win


0:09:11.120,0:09:14.440
0:19:47.679,0:19:53.320
somewhere here. Where do you think that part
again." That's what it would mean for
you think what is wrong
the limit statement to be true.


0:09:14.440,0:09:21.160
0:19:53.320,0:20:00.320
here? In the strategy choice step? What do
One last one. Just kind of pretty similar
you think went wrong in the
to the one we just saw. But with


0:09:21.160,0:09:24.010
0:20:16.690,0:20:23.690
strategy choice step?
a little twist.


0:09:24.010,0:09:28.850
0:20:39.020,0:20:46.020
What? Okay, so let's go over the game. Skeptic
Okay, this one, let's see. We are saying
will choose the epsilon,
that the limit as x


0:09:28.850,0:09:29.760
0:20:50.450,0:20:56.900
then?
approaches zero of sin(1/x) is zero, right?
Let's see how we prove


0:09:29.760,0:09:35.130
0:20:56.900,0:21:01.409
KM: Then the prover chooses delta.
this. If the statement true ... well, do you
think the statement is


0:09:35.130,0:09:36.080
0:21:01.409,0:21:08.409
Vipul: Prover chooses delta. Then?
true? As x approach to zero, is sin 1 over
x approaching zero? So


0:09:36.080,0:09:39.529
0:21:13.980,0:21:20.980
KM: Then the skeptic has to choose the x value.
here's the picture of sin(1/x). y-axis.
It's an oscillatory function


0:09:39.529,0:09:42.470
0:21:22.010,0:21:27.870
Vipul: x value. So, when the prover is deciding
and it has this kind of picture. Does it doesn't
the strategy, when the
go to zero as x


0:09:42.470,0:09:45.860
0:21:27.870,0:21:29.270
prover is choosing the delta, what information
approaches zero?
does the prover have?


0:09:45.860,0:09:48.410
0:21:29.270,0:21:30.669
KM: He just has the information epsilon.
KM: No.


0:09:48.410,0:09:50.500
0:21:30.669,0:21:35.539
Vipul: Just the information on epsilon. So?
Vipul: No. So, you said that this statement
is false, but I'm going to


0:09:50.500,0:09:57.060
0:21:35.539,0:21:38.700
KM: So, in this case the mistake was that
try to show it's true. Here's how I do
because he didn't know the x value yet?
that. Let's say the skeptic


0:09:57.060,0:10:03.100
0:21:38.700,0:21:44.510
Vipul: The strategy cannot depend on x.
picks epsilon as two, okay? And then the prover
... so, the epsilon is


0:10:03.100,0:10:04.800
0:21:44.510,0:21:48.520
KM: Yeah.
two so that's the interval of width two
about the game limit zero. The


0:10:04.800,0:10:09.790
0:21:48.520,0:21:55.150
Vipul: So, the prover is sort of picking the
prover picks delta as 1/pi. Whatever x the
delta based on x but the
skeptic picks, okay?


0:10:09.790,0:10:12.660
0:21:55.150,0:22:02.150
prover doesn't know x at this stage when
Regardless of the x that the
picking the delta. The delta
skeptic picks, the function is trapped
within epsilon of the game limit. Is that


0:10:12.660,0:10:15.910
0:22:10.340,0:22:16.900
that the prover chooses has to be completely
true? Yes, because sin
a function of epsilon
(1/x) is between minus 1 and 1, right? Therefore


0:10:15.910,0:10:19.680
0:22:16.900,0:22:20.100
alone, it cannot depend on the future moves
since the skeptic
of the skeptic because the
picked an epsilon of 2, the function value


0:10:19.680,0:10:23.700
0:22:20.100,0:22:24.030
prover cannot read the skeptic's mind. Okay?
is completely trapped in
And doesn't know what the
the interval from -1 to 1, so therefore the


0:10:23.700,0:10:24.800
0:22:24.030,0:22:27.919
skeptic plans to do.
prover managed to trap it
within distance of 2 of the claimed limit zero.


0:10:24.800,0:10:31.800
0:22:27.919,0:22:30.970
So that is the ... that's the ... I call
Okay? Regardless of what
this ... can you see what I
the skeptic does, right? It's not just saying


0:10:42.240,0:10:43.040
0:22:30.970,0:22:34.370
call this?
that the prover won the
game once, it's saying whatever x the skeptic


0:10:43.040,0:10:45.399
0:22:34.370,0:22:40.740
KM: The strongly telepathic prover.
picks the prover can
still win the game. Right? Regardless if the


0:10:45.399,0:10:51.470
0:22:40.740,0:22:43.780
Vipul: So, do you know what I meant by that?
x the skeptic picks, the
Well, I meant the prover
prover picked a delta such that the function


0:10:51.470,0:10:58.470
0:22:43.780,0:22:48.100
is sort of reading the skeptic's mind. All
is trapped. It's
right? It's called
completely trapped, okay? It's not an issue


0:11:07.769,0:11:10.329
0:22:48.100,0:22:51.130
telepathy.
of whether the skeptic
picked a stupid x. Do you think that this


0:11:10.329,0:11:17.329
0:22:51.130,0:22:52.130
Okay, the next one.
proves the statement?


0:11:25.589,0:11:30.230
0:22:52.130,0:22:59.130
This one says that the function defined this
KM: No, I mean in this case it still depended
way. Okay? It's defined
on the epsilon that the


0:11:30.230,0:11:34.829
0:23:01.030,0:23:01.820
as g(x) is x when x is rational and zero when
skeptic chose.
x is irrational. So,


0:11:34.829,0:11:41.829
0:23:01.820,0:23:04.980
what would this look like? Well, it's like
Vipul: It's still dependent on the epsilon
this. There's a line y
that the skeptic chose? So,


0:11:42.750,0:11:49.510
0:23:04.980,0:23:05.679
equals x and there's the x-axis and the
yes, that's exactly the problem.
graph is just the irrational x


0:11:49.510,0:11:52.750
0:23:05.679,0:23:09.370
coordinate parts of this line and the rational
So, we proved that the statement -- we prove
x coordinate parts of
that from this part onward


0:11:52.750,0:11:56.350
0:23:09.370,0:23:12.500
this line. It's kind of like both these
but it still, we didn't prove it for all
lines but only parts of
epsilon, we only prove for


0:11:56.350,0:11:58.529
0:23:12.500,0:23:16.309
them. Right?
epsilon is 2, and 2 is a very big number,
right? Because the


0:11:58.529,0:12:02.079
0:23:16.309,0:23:19.970
Now we want to show that limit as x approaches
oscillation is all happening between minus
zero of g(x) is
1 and 1, and if in fact the


0:12:02.079,0:12:06.899
0:23:19.970,0:23:26.970
zero. So just in here, do you think the statement
skeptic had pick epsilon as 1 or something
is true? That x goes
smaller than 1 then the two


0:12:06.899,0:12:09.910
0:23:27.030,0:23:32.169
to zero, does this function go to zero?
epsilon strip width would not cover the entire
-1, +1


0:12:09.910,0:12:10.610
0:23:32.169,0:23:35.490
KM: Yes.
interval, and then whatever the prover did
the skeptic could actually


0:12:10.610,0:12:17.610
0:23:35.490,0:23:39.530
Vipul: Because both the pieces are going to
pick an x and show that it's not trapped.
zero. That's the inclusion. Okay?
So, in fact the reason why


0:12:20.610,0:12:24.089
0:23:39.530,0:23:43.110
This is the proof we have here. So the idea,
the prover could win the game from this point
we again think about it
onward is that the


0:12:24.089,0:12:27.790
0:23:43.110,0:23:45.900
in terms of the game. The skeptic first picks
skeptic made a stupid choice of epsilon.
the epsilon, okay? Now
Okay?


0:12:27.790,0:12:30.779
0:23:45.900,0:23:52.289
that we would have to choose the delta, but
In all these situation, all these misconceptions,
there are really two cases
the main problem is,


0:12:30.779,0:12:35.200
0:23:52.289,0:23:58.919
on x, right? x rational and x irrational.
that we're not ... keeping in mind the order
So the prover chooses the
which the moves I made


0:12:35.200,0:12:39.459
0:23:58.919,0:24:04.179
delta based on sort of whether the x is rational
and how much information each claim has at
or irrational, so if
the stage where that move


0:12:39.459,0:12:43.880
0:24:04.179,0:24:04.789
the x is rational then the prover just picks
is being made.
delta equals epsilon, and
</toggledisplay>


0:12:43.880,0:12:48.339
===Strongly telepathic prover===
that's good enough for rational x, right?
Because for rational x the


0:12:48.339,0:12:51.410
''Spot the error in  this'':
slope of the line is one so picking delta
as epsilon is good enough.


0:12:51.410,0:12:55.760
{{quotation|Consider the limit problem <math>\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 2} x^2 = 4</math>. The <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> proof corresponding to this problem would involve a game between a prover and a skeptic. To show that the limit statement is true, it suffices to exhibit a winning strategy for the prover for the game. The strategy is as follows. Pick <math>\delta = \frac{\varepsilon}{|x + 2|}</math>. Let's prove that this works.<br><br>''Specific claim'': For any skeptic-picked <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, if the prover picks <math>\delta > 0</math> such that <math>\delta = \varepsilon/|x + 2|</math>, then regardless of the <math>x</math> that the skeptic picks with <math>0 < |x - 2| < \delta</math>, we have <math>|x^2 - 4| < \varepsilon</math>.<br><br>''Proof of claim'': We have: <br><math>|x^2 - 4| = |x - 2||x + 2| < \delta|x + 2| = \frac{\varepsilon}{|x + 2|} |x + 2| = \varepsilon</math>}}
For irrational x, if the skeptic's planning
to choose an irrational x


0:12:55.760,0:12:59.730
The error is as follows: <toggledisplay>Recall the sequence of moves made in the game. First, the skeptic picks <math>\varepsilon > 0 </math>. Then, the prover picks <math>\delta > 0</math>. ''Then'', the skeptic picks a test value of <math>x</math> to challenge the prover's claim of the function being trapped. In particular, this means that at the stage that the prover picks the value of <math>\delta</math>, the prover is ''unaware'' of the value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to pick. Hence, the prover's strategy for choosing <math>\delta</math> cannot use <math>x</math>. Rather, the prover must have a strategy for <math>\delta</math> purely in terms of <math>\varepsilon</math>, which is the only piece of information known to the prover at that stage in the game.
then the prover can just choose any delta
actually. Like just pick


0:12:59.730,0:13:03.880
This also explains why we called this error the ''strongly telepathic prover'', i.e., it involved the prover reading the skeptic's mind about future planned moves, which is impermissible.
the delta in advance. Like delta is one or
something. Because if x is


0:13:03.880,0:13:10.430
Although this strategy is wrong, it can be fixed to get a correct strategy, i.e., this is the right way to ''start'' thinking about how this type of problem could be attacked. What the prover needs to do is pick a choice of <math>\delta</math> that works for all <math>x</math> that the skeptic can pick in the constrained interval. The algebra done here provides some guidelines on how the prover can make such a choice, but another idea, namely, the idea of a ''cut-off value'', is needed to complete the strategy.</toggledisplay>
irrational then it's like a constant function
and therefore, like, for


0:13:10.430,0:13:14.970
===Mildly telepathic prover===
any delta the function is trapped within epsilon
distance of the given


0:13:14.970,0:13:16.970
''Spot the error in this'':
limit. Okay?


0:13:16.970,0:13:19.950
{{quotation|Consider the limit problem: <br><math>g(x) = \left \lbrace \begin{array}{ll} x, & x \text{ rational } \\ 0, & x \text{ irrational }\\\end{array}\right.</math><br>We want to show that <math>\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 0} g(x) = 0</math><br>For this game, we need to exhibit a winning strategy for the prover. The winning strategy is as follows. The skeptic first chooses <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>. The prover now makes two cases. If the skeptic is planning to pick a rational value of <math>x</math>, then the prover chooses the strategy <math>\delta = \varepsilon</math>. If the skeptic is planning to choose an irrational value of <math>x</math>, then the prover can pick any <math>\delta</math>.<br>Clearly, the prover's strategy works in both cases, so we have a winning strategy.}}
So the prover sort of makes two cases based
on whether the skeptic


0:13:19.950,0:13:26.950
Th error is as follows: <toggledisplay>Recall the sequence of moves made in the game. First, the skeptic picks <math>\varepsilon > 0 </math>. Then, the prover picks <math>\delta > 0</math>. ''Then'', the skeptic picks a test value of <math>x</math> to challenge the prover's claim of the function being trapped. In particular, this means that at the stage that the prover picks the value of <math>\delta</math>, the prover is ''unaware'' of the value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to pick. Hence, the prover's strategy for choosing <math>\delta</math> cannot rely on specifics about what <math>x</math> the skeptic plans to choose.
will pick a rational or an irrational x and
sort of based on that if


0:13:27.040,0:13:30.730
This error is similar to the preceding error. Both involve impermissible telepathy on the prover's part in reading the skeptic's mind. The ''strongly telepathic prover'' error is more severe in the sense that it involves the prover reading the exact value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to play, whereas the ''mildly telepathic prover'' error only involves the prover guessing the ''type'' of value (rational or irrational) that the skeptic plans to play.
it's rational this is the prover's strategy,
if it's irrational then


0:13:30.730,0:13:34.050
The fix for the mildly telepathic prover error is that the prover chooses a ''combined'' strategy that ''simultaneously'' works for both eventualities. In this situation, the strategy <math>\delta = \varepsilon</math> works for both situations (rational and irrational <math>x</math>). In general, for a function with two piece definitions for rational and irrational points in the domain, we need to take the ''min'' of the <math>\delta</math>-strategies that work for the definitions individually. A similar approach works for different definitions on the left and right.</toggledisplay>
the prover can just do any delta.


0:13:34.050,0:13:37.630
===You say you want a replay?===
Can you tell me what's wrong with this proof?


0:13:37.630,0:13:44.630
''Spot the error in this'':
KM: So, you're still kind of basing it on
what the skeptic is going to


0:13:44.750,0:13:45.800
{{quotation|Consider the limit problem <math>\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 1} 2x = 2</math>. Let's think of this in terms of an <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> game. The skeptic begins by picking <math>\varepsilon = 0.1</math>. The prover chooses <math>\delta = 0.05</math>. The skeptic now chooses <math>x = 0.97</math>. This value of <math>x</math> is within the <math>\delta</math>-distance of <math>1</math>. It's now checked that <math>2x = 1.94</math> is within <math>\varepsilon</math>-distance of the claimed limit <math>2</math>. The prover  has thus won the game, and we have established the truth of the limit statement.}}
pick next.


0:13:45.800,0:13:49.100
The error is as follows: <toggledisplay>This involves ''only one'' play of the <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> limit game. The prover did win this play of the game. However, for us to declare the limit statement to be true, we need to establish that the prover has a ''winning strategy'' for the game, which means we need to demonstrate how the prover would pick a <math>\delta</math> in terms of each choice of <math>\varepsilon</math> (preferably by specifying <math>\delta</math> explicitly as a function of <math>\varepsilon</math>) and then show that the strategy works for all <math>x</math> within <math>\delta</math>-distance of the point on the domain side.
Vipul: Okay. It's actually pretty much the
same problem [as the


0:13:49.100,0:13:55.449
It so happens that in this case, the limit statement is true and the prover did play the game according to one possible winning strategy: <math>\delta = \varepsilon/2</math>. However, since we weren't actually told the winning strategy, let alone given an explanation of why it works, what we're given fails as a proof.</toggledisplay>
preceding one], in a somewhat minor form.
The prover is sort of making


0:13:55.449,0:13:59.959
===Playing to lose===
cases based on what the skeptic is going to
do next, and choosing a


0:13:59.959,0:14:01.940
''Spot the error in  this'':
strategy according to that. But the prover
doesn't actually know what


0:14:01.940,0:14:05.089
{{quotation|Here's an easy proof that <math>\lim_{x \to 0} \sin(1/x) = 0</math>. We need to show that the prover has a winning strategy for the game. Let's say the skeptic starts out by picking <math>\varepsilon = 2</math>. The prover then picks <math>\delta = 1/\pi</math>. It can now easily be verified that for <math>0 < |x| < \delta</math>, <math>|\sin(1/x) - 0| < 2</math>, because the <math>\sin</math> function is trapped within <math>[-1,1]</math>. Thus, the prover has succeeded in trapping the function within the $\varepsilon$-interval specified by the skeptic, and hence won the game. The limit statement is therefore true.}}
the skeptic is going to do next, so the prover
should actually have a


0:14:05.089,0:14:08.970
The error is as follows: <toggledisplay>This involves ''only one'' choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>. The proof does show that with the choice <math>\varepsilon = 2</math>, the prover wins the game. However, in order to show that the limit statement is true, one would need to demonstrate that the prover wins the game for ''every'' possible choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>. In particular, from the skeptic's viewpoint, ''smaller is smarter'', so the prover needs to have a strategy to win the game for arbitrarily small <math>\varepsilon</math>.
single strategy that works in both cases.
If cases will be made to


0:14:08.970,0:14:12.209
In fact, the limit statement is false, and for any choice of <math>\varepsilon \le 1</math>, the prover ''cannot'' win the game, because the range of the function on the immediate left and immediate right of zero is <math>[-1,1]</math>.</toggledisplay>
prove that the strategy works so the prover
has to have a single


0:14:12.209,0:14:12.459
==Conceptual definition and various cases==
strategy.


0:14:12.449,0:14:15.370
===Formulation of conceptual definition===
Now in this case the strategy we can choose
Below is the ''conceptual'' definition of limit. Suppose <math>f</math> is a function defined in a neighborhood of the point <math>c</math>, except possibly at the point <math>c</math> itself. We say that:
the prover just, the


0:14:15.370,0:14:18.779
<math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>
prover can pick delta as epsilon because that
will work in both cases.


0:14:18.779,0:14:20.019
if:
KM: Exactly.


0:14:20.019,0:14:23.320
* For every choice of neighborhood of <math>L</math> (where the term ''neighborhood'' is suitably defined)
Vipul: Yeah. But in general if you have two
* there exists a choice of neighborhood of <math>c</math> (where the term ''neighborhood'' is suitably defined) such that
different piece
* for all <math>x \ne c</math> that are in the chosen neighborhood of <math>c</math>
* <math>f(x)</math> is in the chosen neighborhood of <math>L</math>.


0:14:23.320,0:14:26.579
<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=bE_aKfmUHN8}}</center>
definitions then the way you would do it so
you would pick delta as


0:14:26.579,0:14:30.300
Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay>
the min [minimum] of the delta that work in
0:00:15.570,0:00:19.570
the two different pieces,
Vipul: Ok, so in this talk I'm going to
do the conceptual definition


0:14:30.300,0:14:32.910
0:00:19.570,0:00:26.320
because you sort of want to make sure that
of limit, which is important for a number
both cases are covered. But
of reasons. The main reason


0:14:32.910,0:14:36.730
0:00:26.320,0:00:31.349
the point is you have to do that -- take
is it allows you to construct definitions
the min use that rather than
of limit, not just for this


0:14:36.730,0:14:39.730
0:00:31.349,0:00:34.430
just say, "I'm going to choose my delta
one variable, function of one variable, two
based on what the skeptic is
sided limit which you have


0:14:39.730,0:14:42.589
0:00:34.430,0:00:38.930
going to move next." Okay?
hopefully seen before you saw this video.
Also for a number of other


0:14:42.589,0:14:49.120
0:00:38.930,0:00:43.210
This is a minor form of the same misconception
limit cases which will include limits to infinity,
that that was there in
functions of two


0:14:49.120,0:14:56.120
0:00:43.210,0:00:47.789
the previous example we saw.
variables, etc. So this is a general blueprint
for thinking about


0:15:04.620,0:15:11.620
0:00:47.789,0:00:54.789
So, this is what I call the mildly telepathic
limits. So let me put this definition here
prover, right? The
in front for this. As I am


0:15:14.970,0:15:18.579
0:00:54.890,0:00:59.289
prover is still behaving telepathically
going, I will write things in more general.
predicting the skeptic's future
So the starting thing is...


0:15:18.579,0:15:23.740
0:00:59.289,0:01:03.899
moves but it's not so bad. The prover is
first of all f should be defined around the
just making, like, doing a
point c, need not be


0:15:23.740,0:15:25.470
0:01:03.899,0:01:08.810
coin toss type of telepathy. That isn't
defined at c, but should be defined everywhere
the only one the prover is
around c. I won't write


0:15:25.470,0:15:30.790
0:01:08.810,0:01:11.750
actually, deciding exactly what x skeptic
that down, I don't want to complicate things
would take. But it's still
too much. So we start


0:15:30.790,0:15:32.790
0:01:11.750,0:01:18.750
the same problem and the reason why I think
with saying for every epsilon greater than
people will have this
zero. Why are we picking


0:15:32.790,0:15:36.329
0:01:19.920,0:01:21.689
misconception is because they don't think
this epsilon greater than zero?
about it in terms of the


0:15:36.329,0:15:38.970
0:01:21.689,0:01:22.790
sequence in which the moves are made, and
Rui: Why?
the information that each


0:15:38.970,0:15:45.970
0:01:22.790,0:01:26.070
body has at any given stage of the game.
Vipul: What is the goal of this epsilon? Where
will it finally appear?


0:15:50.889,0:15:57.889
0:01:26.070,0:01:28.520
Let's do this one.
It will finally appear here. Is this captured?


0:16:10.930,0:16:15.259
0:01:28.520,0:01:29.520
So, this is a limit game, right? Let's say
Rui: Yes.
that limit as x approaches


0:16:15.259,0:16:22.259
0:01:29.520,0:01:32.920
1 of 2x is 2, okay? How do we go about showing
Vipul: Which means what we actually are picking
this? Well, the idea is
when we...if you've


0:16:23.699,0:16:27.990
0:01:32.920,0:01:37.720
let's play the game, right? Let's say
seen the limit as a game video or you know
the skeptic it picks epsilon as
how to make a limit as a


0:16:27.990,0:16:34.990
0:01:37.720,0:01:41.700
0.1, okay? The prover picks delta as 0.05.
game. This first thing has been chosen by
The skeptic is then picking
the skeptic, right, and the


0:16:35.139,0:16:38.790
0:01:41.700,0:01:45.840
epsilon as 0.1, the skeptic is saying, "Please
skeptic is trying to challenge the prover
trap the function
into trapping f(x) within L - epsilon to


0:16:38.790,0:16:43.800
0:01:45.840,0:01:50.210
between 1.9 and 2.1. Okay? Find the delta
L + epsilon. Even if you haven't
small enough so that the
seen that [the game], the main focus of


0:16:43.800,0:16:48.389
0:01:50.210,0:01:55.570
function value is dropped between 1.9 and
picking epsilon is to pick this interval surrounding
2.1. The prover picks delta
L. So instead of


0:16:48.389,0:16:55.389
0:01:55.570,0:02:02.570
as 0.05 which means the prover is now getting
saying, for every epsilon greater than zero,
the input value trap
let's say for every


0:16:57.850,0:17:04.850
0:02:04.259,0:02:11.259
between 0.95 and 1.05. That's 1 plus minus
choice of neighborhood of L. So what I mean
this thing. And now the
by that, I have not


0:17:05.439,0:17:09.070
0:02:19.650,0:02:23.760
prover is claiming that if the x value is
clearly defined it so this is a definition
within this much distance of
which is not really a


0:17:09.070,0:17:13.959
0:02:23.760,0:02:28.139
1 except the value equal to 1, then the function
definition, sort of the blueprint for definitions.
value is within 0.1
It is what you fill


0:17:13.959,0:17:17.630
0:02:28.139,0:02:31.570
distance of 2. So, the skeptic tries picking
in the details [of] and get a correct definition.
x within the interval
So by neighborhood,


0:17:17.630,0:17:23.049
0:02:31.570,0:02:36.180
prescribed by the prover, so maybe the skeptic
I mean, in this case, I would mean something
picks 0.97 which is
like (L - epsilon, L +


0:17:23.049,0:17:26.380
0:02:36.180,0:02:43.180
within 0.05 distance of 1.
epsilon). It is an open interval surrounding
L. Ok, this one. The


0:17:26.380,0:17:31.570
0:02:44.590,0:02:47.160
And then they check that f(x) is 1.94, that
conceptual definition starts for every choice
is at the distance of 0.06
of neighborhood of


0:17:31.570,0:17:38.570
0:02:47.160,0:02:54.160
from 2. So, it's within 0.1 of the claimed
L. The domain neighborhood, I haven't really
limit. Who won the game?
defined, but that is the


0:17:38.780,0:17:42.650
0:02:58.359,0:03:05.359
If the thing is within the interval then who
point, it is the general conceptual definition.
wins?
There exists...what


0:17:42.650,0:17:43.320
0:03:09.810,0:03:11.530
KM: The prover.
should come next? [ANSWER!]


0:17:43.320,0:17:46.720
0:03:11.530,0:03:16.530
Vipul: The prover wins, right? So, the prover
Rui: A delta?
won again so therefore
Vipul: That is what the concrete definition


0:17:46.720,0:17:52.100
0:03:16.530,0:03:18.530
this limit statement is true, right? So, what's
says, but what would the
wrong with this as a
conceptual thing say?


0:17:52.100,0:17:57.370
0:03:18.530,0:03:21.680
proof that the limit statement is true? How
Rui: A neighborhood.
is this not a proof that
Vipul: Of what? [ANSWER!]


0:17:57.370,0:18:03.870
0:03:21.680,0:03:28.680
the limit statement is true? This what I've
Rui: Of c.
written here, why is that
Vipul: Of c, of the domain. The goal of picking


0:18:03.870,0:18:05.990
0:03:34.639,0:03:37.970
not a proof that the limit statement is true?
delta is to find a
neighborhood of c. Points to the immediate


0:18:05.990,0:18:11.960
0:03:37.970,0:03:44.919
KM: Because it's only an example for the
left and immediate
specific choice of epsilon and x.
right of c. There exists a choice of neighborhood


0:18:11.960,0:18:16.200
0:03:44.919,0:03:51.919
Vipul: Yes, exactly. So, it's like a single
of c such that, by
play of the game, the
the way I sometimes abbreviate, such that,


0:18:16.200,0:18:20.470
0:03:59.850,0:04:06.109
prover wins, but the limit statement doesn't
as s.t., okay, don't get
just say that the prover
confused by that. Okay, what next? Let's


0:18:20.470,0:18:24.380
0:04:06.109,0:04:12.309
wins the game, it says the prover has a winning
bring out the thing. The next
strategy. It says that
thing is for all x with |x - c| less than


0:18:24.380,0:18:27.660
0:04:12.309,0:04:19.309
the prover can win the game regardless of
... all x in the neighborhood
how the skeptic plays;
except the point c itself. So what should


0:18:27.660,0:18:31.070
0:04:20.040,0:04:27.040
there's a way for the prover to do that.
come here? For all x in the
This just gives one example
neighborhood of c, I put x not equal to c.


0:18:31.070,0:18:34.640
0:04:36.570,0:04:37.160
where the prover won the game, but it doesn't
Is that clear?
tell us that regardless


0:18:34.640,0:18:37.280
0:04:37.160,0:04:37.520
of the epsilon the skeptic takes the prover
Rui: Yes.
can pick a delta such that


0:18:37.280,0:18:41.090
0:04:37.520,0:04:44.520
regardless of the x the skeptic picks, the
Vipul: x not equal to c in the neighborhood
function is within the
chosen for c. The reason


0:18:41.090,0:18:45.530
0:04:49.310,0:04:53.360
thing. So that's what they should do. Okay?
we're excluding the point c that we take the
limit at the point and we


0:18:45.530,0:18:51.160
0:04:53.360,0:04:55.770
Now you notice -- I'm sure you notice this
just care about stuff around, we don't care
but the way the game and the
about what is happening at


0:18:51.160,0:18:58.160
0:04:55.770,0:05:02.770
limit definition. The way the limit definition
the point. For c...this chosen neighborhood...I
goes, you see that all
am writing the black


0:18:59.870,0:19:04.260
0:05:09.880,0:05:14.440
the moves of the skeptic be right "for every"
for choices that the skeptic makes and the
"for all." Right? And
red for the choices the


0:19:04.260,0:19:07.390
0:05:14.440,0:05:16.490
for all the moves of the prover it's "there
prover makes, actually that's reverse of what
exists." Why do we do
I did in the other


0:19:07.390,0:19:11.140
0:05:16.490,0:05:21.320
that? Because we are trying to get a winning
video, but that's ok. They can change colors.
strategy for the prover,
If you have seen that


0:19:11.140,0:19:14.309
0:05:21.320,0:05:24.710
so the prover controls his own moves. Okay?
limit game thing, this color pattern just
[means] ... the black


0:19:14.309,0:19:15.250
0:05:24.710,0:05:28.400
KM: Exactly.
matches with the skeptic choices and the red
matches what the prover


0:19:15.250,0:19:18.630
0:05:28.400,0:05:32.710
Vipul: So, therefore wherever it's a prover
chooses. If you haven't seen that, it is
move it will be a there
not an issue. Just imagine


0:19:18.630,0:19:22.240
0:05:32.710,0:05:35.820
exists. Where there is a skeptic's move
it's a single color.
the prover has to be prepared


0:19:22.240,0:19:29.240
0:05:35.820,0:05:40.820
for anything the skeptic does. All those moves
What happens next? What do we need to check
are "for every."
in order to say this limit


0:19:30.559,0:19:33.850
0:05:40.820,0:05:42.950
One last one. By the way, this one was called,
is L? So f(x) should be where?
"You say you want a


0:19:33.850,0:19:36.870
0:05:42.950,0:05:44.980
replay?" Which is basically they're just
Rui: In the neighborhood of L.
saying that just one play is


0:19:36.870,0:19:40.890
0:05:44.980,0:05:48.060
not good enough. If the statement is actually
Vipul: Yeah. In the concrete definition we
true, the prover should
said f(x) minus L is less


0:19:40.890,0:19:45.370
0:05:48.060,0:05:51.440
be willing to accept the skeptic ones, the
than epsilon. Right, but that is just stating
reply and say they want to
that f(x) is in the


0:19:45.370,0:19:47.679
0:05:51.440,0:05:58.440
play it again, the prover should say "sure"
chosen neighborhood. So f(x) is in the chosen
and "I'm going to win
neighborhood of...Now


0:19:47.679,0:19:53.320
0:06:08.470,0:06:15.470
again." That's what it would mean for
that we have this blueprint for the definition.
the limit statement to be true.
This is a blueprint


0:19:53.320,0:20:00.320
0:06:25.660,0:06:32.660
One last one. Just kind of pretty similar
for the definition. We'll write it in blue.
to the one we just saw. Just
What I mean is, now if I


0:20:16.690,0:20:23.690
0:06:34.930,0:06:40.700
a little different.
ask you to define a limit, in a slightly different
context; you just


0:20:39.020,0:20:46.020
0:06:40.700,0:06:46.280
Okay, this one, let's see. We are saying
have to figure out in order to make this rigorous
that the limit as x
definition. What


0:20:50.450,0:20:56.900
0:06:46.280,0:06:49.240
approaches zero of sin(1/x) is zero, right?
word do you need to understand the meaning
Let's see how we prove
of? [ANSWER!]


0:20:56.900,0:21:01.409
0:06:49.240,0:06:53.780
this. If the statement true ... well, do you
Rui: Neighborhood.
think the statement is
Vipul: Neighborhood, right. That's the magic


0:21:01.409,0:21:08.409
0:06:53.780,0:06:59.810
true? As x approach to zero, is sin 1 over
word behind which I am
x approaching zero? So
hiding the details. If you can understand


0:21:13.980,0:21:20.980
0:06:59.810,0:07:06.280
here's the picture of sin(1/x). y-axis.
what I mean by neighborhood
It's an oscillatory function
then you can turn this into a concrete definition.</toggledisplay>


0:21:22.010,0:21:27.870
===Functions of one variable case===
and it has this kind of picture. Does it doesn't
go to zero as x


0:21:27.870,0:21:29.270
The following definitions of neighborhood are good enough to define limits.
approaches zero?


0:21:29.270,0:21:30.669
* For points in the interior of the domain, for functions of one variable: We can take an open interval centered at the point. For a point <math>c</math>, such an open interval is of the form <math>(c - t, c + t), t > 0</math>. Note that if we exclude the point <math>c</math> itself, we get <math>(c - t,c) \cup (c,c + t)</math>.
KM: No.
* For the point <math>+\infty</math>, for functions of one variable: We take intervals of the form <math>(a,\infty)</math>, where <math>a \in \R</math>.
* For the point <math>-\infty</math>, for functions of one variable: We can take interval of the form <math>(-\infty,a)</math>, where <math>a \in \R</math>.


0:21:30.669,0:21:35.539
We can now list the nine cases of limits, combining finite and infinite possibilities:
Vipul: No. So, you said that this statement
 
is false, but I'm going to
{| class="sortable" border="1"
! Case !! Definition
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>), we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L +\varepsilon)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = -\infty</math> || For every <math>a \in \R</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>), we have <math>f(x) < a</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (-\infty,a)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = \infty</math> || For every <math>a \in \R</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>), we have <math>f(x) > a</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (a,\infty)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to -\infty} f(x) = L</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x < a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (-\infty,a)</math>), we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L +\varepsilon)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to -\infty} f(x) = -\infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x < a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (-\infty,a)</math>), we have <math>f(x) < b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (-\infty,b)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to -\infty} f(x) = \infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x < a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (-\infty,a)</math>), we have <math>f(x) > b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (b,\infty)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = L</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x > a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>), we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L +\varepsilon)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = -\infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x > a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>), we have <math>f(x) < b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (-\infty,b)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = \infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x > a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>), we have <math>f(x) > b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (b,\infty)</math>).
|}


0:21:35.539,0:21:38.700
<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=EOQby7b-WrA}}</center>
try to show it's true. Here's how I do
that. Let's say the skeptic


0:21:38.700,0:21:44.510
===Limit of sequence versus real-sense limit===
picks epsilon as two, okay? And then the prover
... so, the epsilon is


0:21:44.510,0:21:48.520
Recall that the limit of a real-valued function to infinity is defined as follows:
two so that's the interval of width two
about the game limit zero. The


0:21:48.520,0:21:55.150
<math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = L</math> means that:
prover picks delta as 1/pi. Whatever x the
skeptic picks, okay?


0:21:55.150,0:22:02.150
* For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>
Regardless of the x that the
* there exists <math>a \in \R</math> (we're thinking of the neighborhood <math>(a,\infty)</math>) such that
skeptic picks, the function is trapped
* for all <math>x > a</math> (i.e. <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>)
within epsilon of the game limit. Is that
* we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>).
 
Suppose now instead that <math>f</math> is a function restricted to the natural numbers. We can think of <math>f</math> as a [[sequence]], namely the sequence <math>f(1), f(2), \dots</math>. In that case:


0:22:10.340,0:22:16.900
<math>\lim_{n \to \infty, n \in \mathbb{N}} f(n) = L</math> (in words, the sequence converges to <math>L</math>) means that:
true? Yes, because sin
(1/x) is between minus 1 and 1, right? Therefore


0:22:16.900,0:22:20.100
* For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>
since the skeptic
* there exists <math>n_0 \in \mathbb{N}</math> such that
picked an epsilon of 2, the function value
* for all <math>n \in \mathbb{N}</math> satisfying <math>n > n_0</math>,
* we have <math>|f(n) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(n) \in (L - \varepsilon, L + \varepsilon)</math>).


0:22:20.100,0:22:24.030
The definitions differ both in their second and third line. However, the difference in the second line (the use of a real number versus a natural number to specify the threshold for the trapping interval) is not important, i.e., we could swap these lines between the definitions without changing the sense of either definition. The key difference between the definitions lies in their third lines. In the real-sense limit definition case, we require trapping of the function value close to the claimed limit for ''all sufficiently large reals'' whereas the sequence limit definition requires trapping only for ''all sufficiently large natural numbers''.
is completely trapped in
the interval from -1 to 1, so therefore the


0:22:24.030,0:22:27.919
To understand this distinction, consider the following: if <math>f</math> is defined on reals, and it has a real-sense limit, i.e., <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = L</math> for some <math>L \in \mathbb{R}</math>, then it must also be true that <math>\lim_{n \to \infty, n \in \mathbb{N}} f(n) = L</math>. However, it is possible for <math>f</math> to have a sequence limit but not have a real-sense limit. For instance, the function <math>f(x) := \sin(\pi x)</math> has <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x)</math> undefined but <math>\lim_{n \to \infty, n \in \mathbb{N}} f(n)</math> is zero, because <math>f</math> takes the value 0 at all integers.
prover managed to trap it
within distance of 2 of the claimed limit zero.


0:22:27.919,0:22:30.970
<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=P9APtpIE4y8}}</center>
Okay? Regardless of what
the skeptic does, right? It's not just saying


0:22:30.970,0:22:34.370
Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay>
that the prover won the
game once, it's saying whatever x the skeptic


0:22:34.370,0:22:40.740
0:00:15.530,0:00:22.530
picks the prover can
Vipul: Okay. So this talk is going to be about
still win the game. Right? Regardless if the
limit at infinity for functions on real numbers


0:22:40.740,0:22:43.780
0:00:24.300,0:00:28.980
x is skeptic picks, the
and the concept of limits of sequences, how
prover picked a delta such that the function
these definitions are essentially almost the


0:22:43.780,0:22:48.100
0:00:28.980,0:00:34.790
is trapped. It's
same thing and how they differ.
completely trapped, okay? It's not an issue


0:22:48.100,0:22:51.130
0:00:34.790,0:00:41.790
of whether the skeptic
Okay. So let's begin by reviewing the definition
picks the stupid x. Do you think that this
of the limit as x approaches infinity of f(x).


0:22:51.130,0:22:52.130
0:00:42.360,0:00:47.390
proves the statement?
Or rather what it means for that limit to
be a number L. Well, what it means is that


0:22:52.130,0:22:59.130
0:00:47.390,0:00:52.699
KM: No, I mean in this case it still depended
for every epsilon greater than zero, so we
on the epsilon that the
first say for every neighborhood of L, small


0:23:01.030,0:23:01.820
0:00:52.699,0:00:59.429
skeptic chose.
neighborhood of L, given by radius epsilon
there exists a neighborhood of infinity which


0:23:01.820,0:23:04.980
0:00:59.429,0:01:03.010
Vipul: It's still dependent on the epsilon
is specified by choosing some a such that
that the skeptic chose? So,
that is


0:23:04.980,0:23:05.679
0:01:03.010,0:01:08.670
yes, that's exactly the problem.
the interval (a,infinity) ...


0:23:05.679,0:23:09.370
0:01:08.670,0:01:15.220
So, we proved that the statement -- we prove
... such that for all x in the interval from
that from this part onward
a to infinity. That is for all x within the


0:23:09.370,0:23:12.500
0:01:15.220,0:01:20.430
but it still, we didn't prove it for all
chosen neighborhood of infinity, the f(x)
epsilon, we only prove for
value is within the chosen neighborhood of


0:23:12.500,0:23:16.309
0:01:20.430,0:01:23.390
epsilon is 2, and 2 is a very big number,
L. Okay?
right? Because the


0:23:16.309,0:23:19.970
0:01:23.390,0:01:28.049
oscillation is all happening between minus
If you want to think about it in terms of
1 and 1, and if in fact the
the game between the prover and the skeptic,


0:23:19.970,0:23:26.970
0:01:28.049,0:01:34.560
skeptic had pick epsilon as 1 or something
the prover is claiming that the limit as x
smaller than 1 then the two
approaches infinity of f(x) is L. The skeptic


0:23:27.030,0:23:32.169
0:01:34.560,0:01:38.930
epsilon strip width would not cover the entire
begins by picking a neighborhood of L which
-1, +1
is parameterized by its radius epsilon. The


0:23:32.169,0:23:35.490
0:01:38.930,0:01:41.619
interval, and then whatever the prover did
prover picks the
the skeptic could actually
neighborhood of infinity which is parameterized


0:23:35.490,0:23:39.530
0:01:41.619,0:01:48.350
pick an x and show that it's not trapped.
by its lower end a. Then the skeptic picks
So, in fact the reason why
a value x between a and infinity. Then they


0:23:39.530,0:23:43.110
0:01:48.350,0:01:51.990
the prover could win the game from this point
check whether absolute value f(x) minus L
onward is that the
[symbolically: |f(x) - L|] is less than epsilon.


0:23:43.110,0:23:45.900
0:01:51.990,0:01:56.090
skeptic made of stupid choice of epsilon.
That is they check whether f(x) is in the
Okay?
chosen neighborhood of L (the neighborhood


0:23:45.900,0:23:52.289
0:01:56.090,0:02:00.640
In all these situation, all these misconceptions,
chosen by the skeptic). If it is,
the main problem is,
then the prover wins. The prover has managed
 
0:02:00.640,0:02:05.810
to trap the function: for x large enough,
the prover has managed to trap the function


0:23:52.289,0:23:58.919
0:02:05.810,0:02:12.810
that we're not ... keeping in mind the order
within epsilon distance of L. If not, then
which the moves I made
the skeptic wins. The statement is true if


0:23:58.919,0:24:04.179
0:02:13.610,0:02:18.680
and how much information each claim has at
the prover has a winning the strategy for
the stage where that move
the game.


0:24:04.179,0:24:04.789
0:02:18.680,0:02:21.730
is being made.</toggledisplay>
Now, there is a similar definition which one
has for sequences. So, what's a sequence?


===Strongly telepathic prover===
0:02:21.730,0:02:26.349
Well, it's just a function from the natural
numbers. And, here, we're talking of sequences


''Spot the error in  this'':
0:02:26.349,0:02:31.610
of real numbers. So, it's a function from
the naturals to the reals and we use the same


{{quotation|Consider the limit problem <math>\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 2} x^2 = 4</math>. The <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> proof corresponding to this problem would involve a game between a prover and a skeptic. To show that the limit statement is true, it suffices to exhibit a winning strategy for the prover for the game. The strategy is as follows. Pick <math>\delta = \frac{\varepsilon}{|x + 2|}</math>. Let's prove that this works.<br><br>''Specific claim'': For any skeptic-picked <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, if the prover picks <math>\delta > 0</math> such that <math>\delta = \varepsilon/|x + 2|</math>, then regardless of the <math>x</math> that the skeptic picks with <math>0 < |x - 2| < \delta</math>, we have <math>|x^2 - 4| < \varepsilon</math>.<br><br>''Proof of claim'': We have: <br><math>|x^2 - 4| = |x - 2||x + 2| < \delta|x + 2| = \frac{\varepsilon}{|x + 2|} |x + 2| = \varepsilon</math>}}
0:02:31.610,0:02:37.400
letter f for a good reason. Usually we write
sequences with subscripts, a_n type of thing.


The error is as follows: <toggledisplay>Recall the sequence of moves made in the game. First, the skeptic picks <math>\varepsilon > 0 </math>. Then, the prover picks <math>\delta > 0</math>. ''Then'', the skeptic picks a test value of <math>x</math> to challenge the prover's claim of the function being trapped. In particular, this means that at the stage that the prover picks the vaule of <math>\delta</math>, the prover is ''unaware'' of the value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to pick. Hence, the prover's strategy for choosing <math>\delta</math> cannot use <math>x</math>. Rather, the prover must have a strategy for <math>\delta</math> purely in terms of <math>\varepsilon</math>, which is the only piece of information known to the prover at that stage in the game.
0:02:37.400,0:02:42.409
But I'm using it as a function just to highlight
the similarities. So, limit as n approaches


This also explains why we called this error the ''strongly telepathic prover'', i.e., it involved the prover reading the skeptic's mind about future planned moves, which is impermissible.
0:02:42.409,0:02:47.519
infinity, n restricted to the natural numbers
... Usually if it's clear we're talking of


Although this strategy is wrong, it can be fixed to get a correct strategy, i.e., this is the right way to ''start'' thinking about how this type of problem could be attacked. What the prover needs to do is pick a choice of <math>\delta</math> that works for all <math>x</math> that the skeptic can pick in the constrained interval. The algebra done here provides some guidelines on how the prover can make such a choice, but another idea, namely, the idea of a ''cut-off value'', is needed to complete the strategy.</toggledisplay>
0:02:47.519,0:02:52.830
a sequence, we can remove this part [pointing
to the n in N constraint specification] just


===Mildly telepathic prover===
0:02:52.830,0:02:54.980
say limit n approaches infinity f(n),
but since we want to be really clear here,


''Spot the error in this'':
0:02:54.980,0:02:57.220
I have put this line. Okay?


{{quotation|Consider the limit problem: <br><math>g(x) = \left \lbrace \begin{array}{ll} x, & x \text{ rational } \\ 0, & x \text{ irrational }\\\end{array}\right.</math><br>We want to show that <math>\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 0} g(x) = 0$</math><br>For this game, we need to exhibit a winning strategy for the prover. The winning strategy is as follows. The skeptic first chooses <math>\varepsilon > 0$</math>. The prover now makes two cases. If the skeptic is planning to pick a rational value of <math>x</math>, then the prover chooses the strategy <math>\delta = \varepsilon</math>. If the skeptic is planning to choose an irrational value of <math>x</math>, then the prover can pick any <math>\delta</math>.<br>Clearly, the prover's strategy works in both cases, so we have a winning strategy.}}
0:02:57.220,0:03:02.709
So, this limit equals L means "for every epsilon
greater than 0 ..." So, it starts in the same


Th error is as follows: <toggledisplay>Recall the sequence of moves made in the game. First, the skeptic picks <math>\varepsilon > 0 </math>. Then, the prover picks <math>\delta > 0</math>. ''Then'', the skeptic picks a test value of <math>x</math> to challenge the prover's claim of the function being trapped. In particular, this means that at the stage that the prover picks the vaule of <math>\delta</math>, the prover is ''unaware'' of the value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to pick. Hence, the prover's strategy for choosing <math>\delta</math> cannot rely on specifics about what <math>x</math> the skeptic plans to choose.
0:03:02.709,0:03:09.170
way. The skeptic picks a neighborhood of L.
Then the next line is a little different but


This error is similar to the preceding error. Both involve impermissible telepathy on the prover's part in reading the skeptic's mind. The ''strongly telepathic prover'' error is more severe in the sense that it involves the prover reading the exact value of <math>x</math> that the skeptic plans to play, whereas the ''mildly telepathic prover'' error only involves the prover guessing the ''type'' of value (rational or irrational) that the skeptic plans to play.
0:03:09.170,0:03:16.170
that's not really the crucial part. The skeptic
is choosing epsilon. The prover picks n_0,


The fix for the mildly telepathic prover error is that the prover chooses a ''combined'' strategy that ''simultaneously'' works for both eventualities. In this situation, the strategy <math>\delta = \varepsilon</math> works for both situations (rational and irrational <math>x</math>). In general, for a function with two piece definitions for rational and irrational points in the domain, we need to take the ''min'' of the <math>\delta</math>-strategies that work for the definitions individually. A similar approach works for different definitions on the left and right.</toggledisplay>
0:03:18.799,0:03:22.830
a natural number. Now, here the prover is
picking a real number. Here the prover is


===You say you want a replay?===
0:03:22.830,0:03:26.700
picking a natural number. That's not really
the big issue. You could in fact change this


''Spot the error in this'':
0:03:26.700,0:03:33.659
line to match. You could interchange these
lines. It wouldn't affect either definition.


{{quotation|Consider the limit problem <math>\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 1} 2x = 2</math>. Let's think of this in terms of an <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> game. The skeptic begins by picking <math>\varepsilon = 0.1</math>. The prover chooses <math>\delta = 0.05</math>. The skeptic now chooses <math>x = 0.97</math>. This value of <math>x</math> is within the <math>\delta</math>-distance of <math>1</math>. It's now checked that <math>2x = 1.94</math> is within <math>\varepsilon</math>-distance of the claimed limit <math>2</math>. The prover  has thus won the game, and we have established the truth of the limit statement.}}
0:03:33.659,0:03:40.599
The next line is the really important one
which is different. In here [pointing to real-sense


The error is as follows: <toggledisplay>This involves ''only one'' play of the <math>\varepsilon-\delta</math> limit game. The prover did win this play of the game. However, for us to declare the limit statement to be true, we need to establish that the prover has a ''winning strategy'' for the game, which means we need to demonstrate how the prover would pick a <math>\delta</math> in terms of each choice of <math>\varepsilon</math> (preferably by specifying <math>\delta</math> explicitly as a function of <math>\varepsilon</math>) and then show that the strategy works for all <math>x</math> within <math>\delta</math>-distance of the point on the domain side.
0:03:40.599,0:03:47.430
limit], the condition has to be valid for
all x, for all real numbers x which are bigger


It so happens that in this case, the limit statement is true and the prover did play the game according to one possible winning strategy: <math>\delta = \varepsilon/2</math>. However, since we weren't actually told the winning strategy, let alone given an explanation of why it works, what we're given fails as a proof.</toggledisplay>
0:03:47.430,0:03:51.900
than the threshold which the prover has chosen.
Here on the other hand [pointing to the sequence


===Playing to lose===
0:03:51.900,0:03:56.970
limit] the condition has to be valid for all
natural numbers which are bigger than the


''Spot the error in  this'':
0:03:56.970,0:04:00.659
threshold the prover has chosen. By the way,
some of you may have seen the definition with


{{quotation|Here's an easy proof that <math>\lim_{x \to 0} \sin(1/x) = 0</math>. We need to show that the prover has a winning strategy for the game. Let's say the skeptic starts out by picking <math>\varepsilon = 2</math>. The prover then picks <math>\delta = 1/\pi</math>. It can now easily be verified that for <math>0 < |x| < \delta</math>, <math>|\sin(1/x) - 0| < 2</math>, because the <math>\sin</math> function is trapped within <math>[-1,1]</math>. Thus, the prover has succeeded in trapping the function within the $\varepsilon$-interval specified by the skeptic, and hence won the game. The limit statement is therefore true.}}
0:04:00.659,0:04:07.659
an equality sign here. It doesn't make a difference
to the definition. It does affect what n_0


The error is as follows: <toggledisplay>This involves ''only one'' choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>. The proof does show that with the choice <math>\varepsilon = 2</math>, the prover wins the game. However, in order to show that the limit statement is true, one would need to demonstrate that the prover wins the game for ''every'' possible choice of <math>\varepsilon</math>. In particular, from the skeptic's viewpoint, ''smaller is smarter'', so the prover needs to have a strategy to win the game for arbitrarily small <math>\varepsilon</math>.
0:04:09.010,0:04:12.019
you can choose, it will go up or down by one,
but that's not


In fact, the limit statement is false, and for any choice of <math>\varepsilon \le 1</math>, the prover ''cannot'' win the game, because the range of the function on the immediate left and immediate right of zero is <math>[-1,1]</math>.</toggledisplay>
0:04:12.019,0:04:17.310
really a big issue. The big issue, the big
difference between these two definitions is


==Conceptual definition and various cases==
0:04:17.310,0:04:23.050
that in this definition you are insisting
that the condition here is valid for all real


===Formulation of conceptual definition===
0:04:23.050,0:04:30.050
Below is the ''conceptual'' definition of limit. Suppose <math>f</math> is a function defined in a neighborhood of the point <math>c</math>, except possibly at the point <math>c</math> itself. We say that:
x. So, you are insisting or rather the game
is forcing the prover to figure out how to


<math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math>
0:04:31.650,0:04:36.940
trap the function values for all real x. Whereas
here, the game is only requiring the prover


if:
0:04:36.940,0:04:39.639
to trap the function values for all large
enough


* For every choice of neighborhood of <math>L</math> (where the term ''neighborhood'' is suitably defined)
0:04:39.639,0:04:42.880
* there exists a choice of neighborhood of <math>c</math> (where the term ''neighborhood'' is suitably defined) such that
natural numbers. So, here [real-sense limit]
* for all <math>x \ne c</math> that are in the chosen neighborhood of <math>c</math>
it's all large enough real numbers. Here [sequence
* <math>f(x)</math> is in the chosen neighborhood of <math>L</math>.


<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=bE_aKfmUHN8}}</center>
0:04:42.880,0:04:49.250
limit] it's all large enough natural numbers.
Okay?


Full timed transcript: <toggledisplay>
0:04:49.250,0:04:56.250
0:00:15.570,0:00:19.570
So, that's the only difference essentially.
Vipul: Ok, so in this talk I'm going to
Now, you can see from the way we have written
do the conceptual definition


0:00:19.570,0:00:26.320
0:04:57.050,0:04:59.900
of limit, which is important for a number
this that this [real-sense limit] is much
of reasons. The main reason
stronger. So, if you do have a function which


0:00:26.320,0:00:31.349
0:04:59.900,0:05:06.880
is it allows you to construct definitions
is defined on real so that both of these concepts
of limit, not just for this
can be discussed. If it were just a sequence


0:00:31.349,0:00:34.430
0:05:06.880,0:05:10.080
one variable, function of one variable, two
and there were no function to talk about then
sided limit which you have
obviously, we can't even talk about this.


0:00:34.430,0:00:38.930
0:05:10.080,0:05:16.860
hopefully seen before you saw this video.
If there's a function defined on the reals
Also for a number of other
or on all large enough reals, then we can


0:00:38.930,0:00:43.210
0:05:16.860,0:05:21.470
limit cases which will include limits to infinity,
try taking both of these. The existence of
functions of two
this [pointing at the real-sense limit] and


0:00:43.210,0:00:47.789
0:05:21.470,0:05:24.580
variables, etc. So this is a general blueprint
[said "or", meant "and"] it's being equal
for thinking about
to L as much stronger than this [the sequence


0:00:47.789,0:00:54.789
0:05:24.580,0:05:27.250
limits. So let me put this definition here
limit] equal to L. If this is equal to L then
in front for this. As I am
definitely this [the sequence limit] is equal


0:00:54.890,0:00:59.289
0:05:27.250,0:05:29.330
going, I will write things in more general.
to L. Okay?
So the starting thing is...


0:00:59.289,0:01:03.899
0:05:29.330,0:05:32.080
first of all f should be defined around the
But maybe there are situations where this
point c, need not be
[the sequence limit] is equal to some number


0:01:03.899,0:01:08.810
0:05:32.080,0:05:38.240
defined at c, but should be defined everywhere
but this thing [the real-sense limit] doesn't
around c. I won't write
exist. So, I want to take one example here.


0:01:08.810,0:01:11.750
0:05:38.240,0:05:45.240
that down, I don't want to complicate things
I have written down an example and we can
too much. So we start
talk a bit about that is this. So, here is


0:01:11.750,0:01:18.750
0:05:45.509,0:05:52.509
with saying for every epsilon greater than
a function. f(x) = sin(pi x). This is sin
zero. Why are we picking
(pi x) and the corresponding


0:01:19.920,0:01:21.689
0:05:55.630,0:06:00.530
this epsilon greater than zero?
function if you just restrict [it] to the
natural numbers is just sin (pi n). Now, what


0:01:21.689,0:01:22.790
0:06:00.530,0:06:06.759
Rui: Why?
does sin (pi n) look like for a natural number
n? In fact for any integer n? pi times


0:01:22.790,0:01:26.070
0:06:06.759,0:06:13.759
Vipul: What is the goal of this epsilon? Where
n is an integer multiple of pi. sin of integer
will it finally appear?
multiples of pi is zero. Let's make a picture


0:01:26.070,0:01:28.520
0:06:18.370,0:06:25.370
It will finally appear here. Is this captured?
of sin ...


0:01:28.520,0:01:29.520
0:06:27.289,0:06:33.360
Rui: Yes.
It's oscillating. Right? Integer multiples
of pi are precisely the ones where it's meeting


0:01:29.520,0:01:32.920
0:06:33.360,0:06:40.330
Vipul: Which means what we actually are picking
the axis. So, in fact we are concerned about
when we...if you've
the positive one because we are talking of


0:01:32.920,0:01:37.720
0:06:40.330,0:06:45.840
seen the limit as a game video or you know
the sequence (natural number [inputs]). Okay?
how to make a limit as a
And so, if you are looking at this sequence,


0:01:37.720,0:01:41.700
0:06:45.840,0:06:51.090
game. This first thing has been chosen by
all the terms here are zero. So, the limit
the skeptic, right, and the
is also zero. So, this limit [the sequence


0:01:41.700,0:01:45.840
0:06:51.090,0:06:53.030
skeptic is trying to challenge the prover
limit] is zero.
into trapping f(x) within L - epsilon to


0:01:45.840,0:01:50.210
0:06:53.030,0:07:00.030
L + epsilon. Even if you haven't
Okay. What about this limit? Well, we have
seen that [the game], the main focus of
the picture again. Is it going anywhere? No.


0:01:50.210,0:01:55.570
0:07:05.349,0:07:07.650
picking epsilon is to pick this interval surrounding
It's oscillating between minus one and one
L. So instead of
[symbolically: oscillating in [-1,1]]. It's


0:01:55.570,0:02:02.570
0:07:07.650,0:07:11.669
saying, for every epsilon greater than zero,
not settling down to any number. It's not...
let's say for every
You cannot trap it near any particular number


0:02:04.259,0:02:11.259
0:07:11.669,0:07:17.280
choice of neighborhood of L. So what I mean
because it's all over the map between minus
by that, I have not
one and one. For the same reason that sin(1/x)


0:02:19.650,0:02:23.760
0:07:17.280,0:07:22.840
clearly defined it so this is a definition
doesn't approach anything as x approaches
which is not really a
zero, the same reason sin x or sin(pi x) doesn't
 
0:02:23.760,0:02:28.139
definition, sort of the blueprint for definitions.
It is what you fill


0:02:28.139,0:02:31.570
0:07:22.840,0:07:29.840
in the details [of] and get a correct definition.
approach anything as x approaches infinity.
So by neighborhood,
So, the limit for the real thing, this does


0:02:31.570,0:02:36.180
0:07:31.099,0:07:37.539
I mean, in this case, I would mean something
not exist. So, this gives an example where
like (L - epsilon, L +
the real thing [the real-sense limit] doesn't
 
 
0:02:36.180,0:02:43.180
0:07:37.539,0:07:44.539
epsilon). It is an open interval surrounding
exist and the sequence thing [sequence limit]
L. Ok, this one. The
does exist and so here is the overall summary.
 
0:02:44.590,0:02:47.160
conceptual definition starts for every choice
of neighborhood of
 
0:02:47.160,0:02:54.160
L. The domain neighborhood, I haven't really
defined, but that is the
 
0:02:58.359,0:03:05.359
point, it is the general conceptual definition.
There exists...what
 
0:03:09.810,0:03:11.530
should come next? [ANSWER!]
 
0:03:11.530,0:03:16.530
Rui: A delta?
Vipul: That is what the concrete definition
 
0:03:16.530,0:03:18.530
says, but what would the
conceptual thing say?
 
0:03:18.530,0:03:21.680
Rui: A neighborhood.
Vipul: Of what? [ANSWER!]
 
0:03:21.680,0:03:28.680
Rui: Of c.
Vipul: Of c, of the domain. The goal of picking
 
0:03:34.639,0:03:37.970
delta is to find a
neighborhood of c. Points to the immediate
 
0:03:37.970,0:03:44.919
left and immediate
right of c. There exists a choice of neighborhood
 
0:03:44.919,0:03:51.919
of c such that, by
the way I sometimes abbreviate, such that,
 
0:03:59.850,0:04:06.109
as s.t., okay, don't get
confused by that. Okay, what next? Let's
 
0:04:06.109,0:04:12.309
bring out the thing. The next
thing is for all x with |x - c| less than
 
0:04:12.309,0:04:19.309
... all x in the neighborhood
except the point c itself. So what should
 
0:04:20.040,0:04:27.040
come here? For all x in the
neighborhood of c, I put x not equal to c.
 
0:04:36.570,0:04:37.160
Is that clear?
 
0:04:37.160,0:04:37.520
Rui: Yes.
 
0:04:37.520,0:04:44.520
Vipul: x not equal to c in the neighborhood
chosen for c. The reason
 
0:04:49.310,0:04:53.360
we're excluding the point c that we take the
limit at the point and we
 
0:04:53.360,0:04:55.770
just care about stuff around, we don't care
about what is happening at
 
0:04:55.770,0:05:02.770
the point. For c...this chosen neighborhood...I
am writing the black
 
0:05:09.880,0:05:14.440
for choices that the skeptic makes and the
red for the choices the
 
0:05:14.440,0:05:16.490
prover makes, actually that's reverse of what
I did in the other
 
0:05:16.490,0:05:21.320
video, but that's ok. They can change colors.
If you have seen that
 
0:05:21.320,0:05:24.710
limit game thing, this color pattern just
[means] ... the black
 
0:05:24.710,0:05:28.400
matches with the skeptic choices and the red
matches what the prover
 
0:05:28.400,0:05:32.710
chooses. If you haven't seen that, it is
not an issue. Just imagine
 
0:05:32.710,0:05:35.820
it's a single color.
 
0:05:35.820,0:05:40.820
What happens next? What do we need to check
in order to say this limit


0:05:40.820,0:05:42.950
0:07:44.690,0:07:46.979
is L? So f(x) should be where?
If the real sense limit,
that is this one [pointing to definition of


0:05:42.950,0:05:44.980
0:07:46.979,0:07:51.039
Rui: In the neighborhood of L.
real sense limit] exists, [then] the sequence
limit also exists and they're both equal.


0:05:44.980,0:05:48.060
0:07:51.039,0:07:54.419
Vipul: Yeah. In the concrete definition we
On the other hand, you can have a situation
said f(x) minus L is less
with the real sense limit, the limit for the


0:05:48.060,0:05:51.440
0:07:54.419,0:08:00.819
than epsilon. Right, but that is just stating
function of reals doesn't exist but the sequence
that f(x) is in the
limit still exists like this set up. Right?


0:05:51.440,0:05:58.440
0:08:00.819,0:08:05.569
chosen neighborhood. So f(x) is in the chosen
Now, there is a little caveat that I want
neighborhood of...Now
to add. If the real sense limit doesn't exist


0:06:08.470,0:06:15.470
0:08:05.569,0:08:11.069
that we have this blueprint for the definition.
as a finite number but it's say plus infinity
This is a blueprint
then the sequence limit also has to be plus


0:06:25.660,0:06:32.660
0:08:11.069,0:08:16.150
for the definition. We'll write it in blue.
infinity. If the real sense limit is minus
What I mean is, now if I
infinity, then the sequence limit also has


0:06:34.930,0:06:40.700
0:08:16.150,0:08:20.330
ask you to define a limit, in a slightly different
to be minus infinity. So, this type of situation,
context; you just
where the real sense limit doesn't exist but


0:06:40.700,0:06:46.280
0:08:20.330,0:08:26.840
have to figure out in order to make this rigorous
the sequence exists, well, will happen in
definition. What
kind of oscillatory type of situations. Where


0:06:46.280,0:06:49.240
0:08:26.840,0:08:31.409
word do you need to understand the meaning
the real sense you have an oscillating thing
of? [ANSWER!]
and in the sequence thing on the other hand


0:06:49.240,0:06:53.780
0:08:31.409,0:08:36.330
Rui: Neighborhood.
you somehow manage to pick a bunch of points
Vipul: Neighborhood, right. That's the magic
where that oscillation doesn't create a problem.


0:06:53.780,0:06:59.810
0:08:36.330,0:08:36.789
word behind which I am
Okay?
hiding the details. If you can understand


0:06:59.810,0:07:06.280
0:08:36.789,0:08:43.630
what I mean by neighborhood
Now, why is this important? Well, it's important
then you can turn this into a concrete definition.</toggledisplay>
because in a lot of cases when you have to


===Functions of one variable case===
0:08:43.630,0:08:50.630
calculate limits of sequences, you just calculate
them by doing, essentially, just calculating


The following definitions of neighborhood are good enough to define limits.
0:08:53.230,0:09:00.230
the limits of the function defining the sequence
as a limit of a real valued function. Okay?


* For points in the interior of the domain, for functions of one variable: We can take an open interval centered at the point. For a point <math>c</math>, such an open interval is of the form <math>(c - t, c + t), t > 0</math>. Note that if we exclude the point <math>c</math> itself, we get <math>(c - t,c) \cup (c,c + t)</math>.
0:09:00.230,0:09:03.460
* For the point <math>+\infty</math>, for functions of one variable: We take intervals of the form <math>(a,\infty)</math>, where <math>a \in \R</math>.
So, for instance if I ask you what is limit
* For the point <math>-\infty</math>, for functions of one variable: We can take interval of the form <math>(-\infty,a)</math>, where <math>a \in \R</math>.
...


We can now list the nine cases of limits, combining finite and infinite possibilities:
0:09:03.460,0:09:10.460
Okay. I'll ask you what is limit [as] n approaches
infinity of n^2(n + 1)/(n^3 + 1) or something


{| class="sortable" border="1"
0:09:15.200,0:09:22.200
! Case !! Definition
like that. Right? Some rational function.
|-
You just do this calculation as if you were
| <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>), we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L +\varepsilon)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = -\infty</math> || For every <math>a \in \R</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>), we have <math>f(x) < a</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (-\infty,a)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = \infty</math> || For every <math>a \in \R</math>, there exists <math>\delta > 0</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>0 < |x - c| < \delta</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (c - \delta,c) \cup (c,c + \delta)</math>), we have <math>f(x) > a</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (a,\infty)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to -\infty} f(x) = L</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x < a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (-\infty,a)</math>), we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L +\varepsilon)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to -\infty} f(x) = -\infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x < a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (-\infty,a)</math>), we have <math>f(x) < b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (-\infty,b)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to -\infty} f(x) = \infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x < a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (-\infty,a)</math>), we have <math>f(x) > b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (b,\infty)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = L</math> || For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x > a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>), we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (L - \varepsilon,L +\varepsilon)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = -\infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x > a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>), we have <math>f(x) < b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (-\infty,b)</math>).
|-
| <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = \infty</math> || For every <math>b \in \R</math>, there exists <math>a \in \R</math> such that for all <math>x</math> satisfying <math>x > a</math> (i.e., <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>), we have <math>f(x) > b</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in (b,\infty)</math>).
|}


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0:09:25.430,0:09:29.720
just doing a limit of a real function, function
of real numbers, right? The answer you get


===Limit of sequence versus real-sense limit===
0:09:29.720,0:09:33.060
will be the correct one. If it's a finite
number it will be the same finite number.


Recall that the limit of a real-valued function to infinity is defined as follows:
0:09:33.060,0:09:37.850
In this case it will just be one. But any
rational function, if the answer is finite,


<math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = L</math> means that:
0:09:37.850,0:09:44.070
same answer for the sequence. If it is plus
infinity, same answer for the sequence. If


* For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>
0:09:44.070,0:09:46.250
* there exists <math>a \in \R</math> (we're thinking of the neighborhood <math>(a,\infty)</math>) such that
it is minus infinity, same answer as for the
* for all <math>x > a</math> (i.e. <math>x \in (a,\infty)</math>)
sequence.
* we have <math>|f(x) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(x) \in L - \varepsilon,L + \varepsilon)</math>).


Suppose now instead that <math>f</math> is a function restricted to the natural numbers. We can think of <math>f</math> as a [[sequence]], namely the sequence <math>f(1), f(2), \dots</math>. In that case:
0:09:46.250,0:09:53.250
However, if the answer you get for the real-sense
limit is oscillatory type of non existence,


<math>\lim_{n \to \infty, n \in \mathbb{N}} f(n) = L</math> (in words, the sequence converges to <math>L</math>) means that:
0:09:54.660,0:09:59.410
 
then that's inconclusive as far as the sequence
* For every <math>\varepsilon > 0</math>
is concerned. You actually have to think about
* there exists <math>n_0 \in \mathbb{N}</math> such that
* for all <math>n \in \mathbb{N}</math> satisfying <math>n > n_0</math>,
* we have <math>|f(n) - L| < \varepsilon</math> (i.e., <math>f(n) \in (L - \varepsilon, L + \varepsilon)</math>).


The definitions differ both in their second and third line. However, the difference in the second line (the use of a real number versus a natural number to specify the threshold for the trapping interval) is not important, i.e., we could swap these lines between the definitions without changing the sense of either definition. The key difference between the definitions lies in their third lines. In the real-sense limit definition case, we require trapping of the function value close to the claimed limit for ''all sufficiently large reals'' whereas the sequence limit definition requires trapping only for ''all sufficiently large natural numbers''.
0:09:59.410,0:10:05.520
the sequence case and figure out for yourself
what happens to the limit. Okay? If might


To understand this distinction, consider the following: if <math>f</math> is defined on reals, and it has a real-sense limit, i.e., <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x) = L</math> for some <math>L \in \mathbb{R}</math>, then it must also be true that <math>\lim_{n \to \infty, n \in \mathbb{N}} f(n) = L</math>. However, it is possible for <math>f</math> to have a sequence limit but not have a real-sense limit. For instance, the function <math>f(x) := \sin(\pi x)</math> has <math>\lim_{x \to \infty} f(x)</math> undefined but <math>\lim_{n \to \infty, n \in \mathbb{N}} f(n)</math> is zero, because <math>f</math> takes the value 0 at all integers.
0:10:05.520,0:10:07.230
in
fact be the case that the sequence limit actually


<center>{{#widget:YouTube|id=P9APtpIE4y8}}</center>
0:10:07.230,0:10:11.380
does exist even though the real sense [limit]
is oscillatory. Okay.
</toggledisplay>


===Real-valued functions of multiple variables case===
===Real-valued functions of multiple variables case===
Line 5,159: Line 5,150:
* we have <math>|f(\overline{x}) - L| < \varepsilon</math>. Note that <math>f(\overline{x})</math> and <math>L</math> are both scalars, so the <math>| \cdot |</math> here is the usual [[absolute value function]].
* we have <math>|f(\overline{x}) - L| < \varepsilon</math>. Note that <math>f(\overline{x})</math> and <math>L</math> are both scalars, so the <math>| \cdot |</math> here is the usual [[absolute value function]].


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Latest revision as of 03:14, 25 September 2021

ORIGINAL FULL PAGE: Limit
STUDY THE TOPIC AT MULTIPLE LEVELS:
ALSO CHECK OUT: Quiz (multiple choice questions to test your understanding) |Page with videos on the topic, both embedded and linked to

This page lists a core term of calculus. The term is used widely, and a thorough understanding of its definition is critical.
See a complete list of core terminology

Motivation

Quick summary

The term "limit" in mathematics is closely related to one of the many senses in which the term "limit" is used in day-to-day English. In day-to-day English, there are two uses of the term "limit":

  • Limit as something that one approaches, or is headed toward
  • Limit as a boundary or cap that cannot be crossed or exceeded

The mathematical term "limit" refers to the first of these two meanings. In other words, the mathematical concept of limit is a formalization of the intuitive concept of limit as something that one approaches or is headed toward.

For a function , the notation:

is meant to say "the limit, as approaches , of the function value " and thus, the mathematical equality:

is meant to say "the limit, as approaches , of the function value , is ." In a rough sense, what this means is that as gets closer and closer to , eventually comes, and stays, close enough to .

Graphical interpretation

The graphical interpretation of "" is that, if we move along the graph of the function in the plane, then the graph approaches the point whether we make approach from the left or the right. However, this interpretation works well only if is continuous on the immediate left and immediate right of .

This interpretation is sometimes termed the "two finger test" where one finger is used to follow the graph for slightly less than and the other finger is used to follow the graph for slightly greater than .

The interpretation is problematic in that it is not really a definition, and fails to have computational utility for wildly oscillatory functions or functions with other forms of weird behavior.

Two key ideas

The concept of limit involves two key ideas, both of which help explain why the definition is structured the way it is:

  • Arbitrarily close: The limit depends on how things behave arbitrarily close to the point involved. The notion of "arbitrarily close" is difficult to quantify non-mathematically, but what it means is that any fixed distance is too much. For instance, if doing , we can take points close to 2 such as 2.1, 2.01, 2.001, 2.0001, 2.0000001, 2.000000000000001. Any of these points, viewed in and of itself, is too far from 2 to offer any meaningful information. It is only the behavior in the limit, as we get arbitrarily close, that matters.
  • Trapping of the function close by: For a function to have a certain limit at a point, it is not sufficient to have the function value come close to that point. Rather, for to hold, it is necessary that for very close to , the function value is trapped close to . It is not enough that it keeps oscillating between being close to and being far from .
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Full timed transcript: [SHOW MORE]

Checkpoint questions:

  • To figure out the limit of a function at , does the value of the function at matter? Does the value of the function at matter? ? How close is close enough?
  • What is the limit ? What's the intuitive idea behind the reasoning? More formal versions of this reasoning will be introduced after we have seen the definition.

Definition for finite limit for function of one variable

Two-sided limit

Suppose is a function of one variable and is a point such that is defined to the immediate left and immediate right of (note that may or may not be defined at ). In other words, there exists some value such that is defined on .

For a given value , we say that:

if the following holds:

For every , there exists such that for all satisfying , we have .

The definition is broken down into its four clauses below:

Clause Interval description Symbol explanations
For every The symbol is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon".
Although the definition customarily uses the letter , it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
there exists such that The symbol is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta"
Although the definition customarily uses the letter , it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
for all satisfying The symbol stands for the absolute value function.
stands for "is in the set" so the statements should be read as saying that is in the set described in the two equivalent ways.
stands for the union, so the statement that should be parsed as saying that or
stands for set difference, so the statement can be parsed as saying that could be any value in except . The point is excluded because we do not want the value of at to affect the limit notion.
we have The symbol stands for the absolute value function.
stands for "is in the set" so the statement should be read as saying that is in the set .

The limit (also called the two-sided limit) is defined as a value such that . By the uniqueness theorem for limits, there is at most one value of for which . Hence, it makes sense to talk of the limit when it exists.

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Full timed transcript: [SHOW MORE]

Checkpoint questions:

  • In order to make sense of where must the function be defined? Must be defined at ? If exists, what can we say about its value?
  • What's the formal definition of limit, i.e., what does mean?
  • How would you write the formal definition of limit using intervals rather than absolute value inequalities to describe where and should be?
  • Why is there a "" in the inequality in the definition? Why doesn't a appear in the part of the definition?
  • In order to be able to talk of the limit , what additional fact do we need beyond the definition of what means?

Left-hand limit

Suppose is a function of one variable and is a point such that is defined on the immediate left of (note that may or may not be defined at ). In other words, there exists some value such that is defined on .

For a given value , we say that:

if the following holds:

For every , there exists such that for all satisfying , we have .

The definition is broken down into its four clauses below:

Clause Interval description Symbol explanations
For every The symbol is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon".
Although the definition customarily uses the letter , it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
there exists such that The symbol is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta"
Although the definition customarily uses the letter , it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
for all satisfying The symbol stands for the absolute value function.
stands for "is in the set" so the statements should be read as saying that is in the set describing the immediate -left of .
we have The symbol stands for the absolute value function.
stands for "is in the set" so the statement should be read as saying that is in the set .

The left-hand limit (acronym LHL) is defined as a value such that . By the uniqueness theorem for limits (one-sided version), there is at most one value of for which . Hence, it makes sense to talk of the left hand limit when it exists.

Right-hand limit

Suppose is a function of one variable and is a point such that is defined on the immediate right of (note that may or may not be defined at ). In other words, there exists some value such that is defined on .

For a given value , we say that:

if the following holds:

For every , there exists such that for all satisfying , we have .

The definition is broken down into its four clauses below:

Clause Interval description Symbol explanations
For every The symbol is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "epsilon".
Although the definition customarily uses the letter , it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
there exists such that The symbol is a Greek lowercase letter pronounced "delta"
Although the definition customarily uses the letter , it can be replaced by any other letter, as long as the letter is different from the other letters in use. The reason for sticking to a standard letter choice is that it reduces cognitive overload.
for all satisfying The symbol stands for the absolute value function.
stands for "is in the set" so the statements should be read as saying that is in the set describing the immediate -right of .
we have The symbol stands for the absolute value function.
stands for "is in the set" so the statement should be read as saying that is in the set .

The right-hand limit (acronym RHL) is defined as a value such that . By the uniqueness theorem for limits (one-sided version), there is at most one value of for which . Hence, it makes sense to talk of the right hand limit when it exists.

Side-by-side comparison of the definitions

Clause for two-sided limit Clause for left hand limit Clause for right hand limit Comments
For every For every For every identical so far
there exists such that there exists such that there exists such that still identical
for all satisfying , i.e., for all satisfying , i.e., for all satisfying , i.e., this is the part that differs, in so far as it is the direction of domain approach that differs between the definitions.
we have , i.e., we have , i.e., we have , i.e., this part is again identical. Note that the left versus right is only about the direction of approach in the domain, not about the direction of approach of the function value.
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Full timed transcript: [SHOW MORE]

Checkpoint questions:

  • In order to make sense of , where must the function be defined? Must be defined at ? If exists, what can we say about its value?
  • The definitions of left hand limit, right hand limit and ordinary (two-sided) limit are pretty similar. There is only one clause that differs across the three definitions. What clause is this, and how does it differ across the definitions? Explain both in inequality notation and in interval notation.
  • Why should we be careful when dealing with one-sided limits in the context of function compositions?

Relation between the limit notions

The two-sided limit exists if and only if (both the left hand limit and right hand limit exist) and (they are equal to each other).

Explicitly, exists if all three of these conditions hold:

  • exists.
  • exists.
  • .

Moreover, in the event that both one-sided limits exist and are equal, the two-sided limit is equal to both of them.

Further, a particular value of works for a particular value of in the two-sided limit definition if and only if it works in both the left hand limit definition and the right hand limit definition.

Definition of finite limit for function of one variable in terms of a game

The formal definitions of limit, as well as of one-sided limit, can be reframed in terms of a game. This is a special instance of an approach that turns any statement with existential and universal quantifiers into a game.

Two-sided limit

Consider the limit statement, with specified numerical values of and and a specified function :

Note that there is one trivial sense in which the above statement can be false, or rather, meaningless, namely, that is not defined on the immediate left or immediate right of . In that case, the limit statement above is false, but moreover, it is meaningless to even consider the notion of limit. We therefore omit this sense from consideration and consider instead only the situation where is defined on the immediate left and immediate right of .

The game is between two players, a Prover whose goal is to prove that the limit statement is true, and a Skeptic (also called a Verifier or sometimes a Disprover) whose goal is to show that the statement is false. The game has three moves:

  1. First, the skeptic chooses , or equivalently, chooses the target interval in which the skeptic is challenging the prover to trap the function.
  2. Then, the prover chooses , or equivalently, chooses the interval .
  3. Then, the skeptic chooses a value satisfying , or equivalently, , which is the same as .

Now, if (i.e., ), the prover wins. Otherwise, the skeptic wins.

We say that the limit statement

is true if the prover has a winning strategy for this game. The winning strategy for the prover basically constitutes a strategy to choose an appropriate in terms of the chosen by the skeptic. Thus, it is an expression of as a function of . Verbally, the goal of the prover is to choose a value of so that when the input is restricted to being within distance of , the output is trapped to within distance of the claimed limit .

We say that the limit statement

is false if the skeptic has a winning strategy for this game. The winning strategy for the skeptic involves a choice of , and a strategy that chooses a value of (constrained in the specified interval) based on the prover's choice of .

Let's review the definition in conjunction with the game along with a deeper semantic understanding of the steps:

Step no. Clause of definition Who moves? What is chosen? Constraints on the choice Comment
1 For every Skeptic Must be positive The "for every" corresponds to the idea that the move is made by the side that does not have a winning strategy, because we want to argue that the side that does have a winning strategy can win no matter what.
2 there exists such that Prover Must be positive The "there exists" corresponds to the idea that the move is made by the side that has a winning strategy, because that side gets to choose a favorable value of the variable (in this case ).
3 for all satisfying , Skeptic Must be within the interval The "for all" corresponds to the idea that the move is made by the side that does not have a winning strategy, because we want to argue that the side that does have a winning strategy can win no matter what.
4 we have Neither; it's time for the judge to decide -- If (the condition that we desire) the prover wins. Else, the skeptic wins.

Slight subtlety regarding domain of definition: [SHOW MORE]

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Negation of limit statement and non-existence of limit

We now consider the explicit description of the definition for the case that the skeptic has a winning strategy for the limit game for , i.e., for the limit statement being false.

In words, the definition is:

There exists such that for every , there exists satisfying and .

Let's review the definition in conjunction with the game along with a deeper semantic understanding of the steps:

Step no. Clause of definition for original limit statement (i.e., prover has a winning strategy) Clause of definition for skeptic having a winning strategy Who moves? What is chosen? Constraints on the choice Comment
1 For every There exists such that Skeptic Must be positive Whether we use "for every" or "there exists" depends on who we're rooting for.
2 there exists such that for every , Prover Must be positive Whether we use "for every" or "there exists" depends on who we're rooting for.
3 for all satisfying , there exists satisfying and Skeptic Must be within the interval Whether we use "for every" or "there exists" depends on who we're rooting for.
4 we have . Neither; it's time for the judge to decide -- If , the prover wins. Else, the skeptic wins. The conditions are negatives of one another.
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Non-existence of limit

The statement does not exist could mean one of two things:

  1. is not defined around , i.e., there is no for which is defined on . In this case, it does not even make sense to try taking a limit.
  2. is defined around , except possibly at , i.e., there is for which is defined on . So, it does make sense to try taking a limit. However, the limit still does not exist.

The formulation of the latter case is as follows:

For every , there exists such that for every , there exists satisfying and such that .

We can think of this in terms of a slight modification of the limit game, where, in our modification, there is an extra initial move by the prover to propose a value for the limit. The limit does not exist if the skeptic has a winning strategy for this modified game.

An example of a function that does not have a limit at a specific point is the sine of reciprocal function. Explicitly, the limit:

does not exist. The skeptic's winning strategy is as follows: regardless of the chosen by the prover, pick a fixed (independent of , so can be decided in advance of the game -- note that the skeptic could even pick and the strategy would still work). After the prover has chosen a value , find a value such that the function value lies outside . This is possible because the interval has width , hence cannot cover the entire interval , which has width 2. However, the range of the function on is all of .

Crucially, the inability of the prover to trap the function value close to any point as is the reason the limit fails to exist.

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Strategic aspects

The strategy of small

In the game formulation of the limit, the following loose statements are true:

  • "Smaller is smarter" for the skeptic, i.e., the smaller the choice of , the better the outlook is for the skeptic to win.
  • "Smaller is smarter" for the prover, i.e., the smaller the choice of , the better the outlook is for the prover to win.

In other words, each side benefits by making the crucial move of that side as small as possible. However, there does not exist any single arbitrarily small number -- this is related to the observation in the motivation section that there is no such thing as a single arbitrarily close number. Thus, saying "choose as small a value as possible" is not a coherent strategy. What we can say is the following:

  • If a value of works for a given value of , the same value of also works for larger choices of .
  • If a value of works for a given value of , smaller values of also work for the same choice of .

Prover's strategy revisited

The prover, in choosing a winning strategy, must specify a rule that can determine a value of that works in terms of the value of specified by the skeptic. In other words, the prover must have a way of specifying as a function of .

The skeptic also chooses in the next move. However, the prover has no way of knowing the value of that the skeptic plans to pick. Thus, in order for the prover to have a winning strategy, the prover's choice of should be such that no matter what the skeptic picks, the prover wins.

Skeptic's strategy revisited

The skeptic, in choosing a winning strategy, must specify the value of and then specify how to pick a value of that works. When picking the value of , the skeptic does not know what the prover will pick. Thus, the skeptic's choice of cannot be dependent on the prover's subsequent choice of .

However, when picking the value of , the skeptic is aware of (and constrained by) the prover's choice of .

Misconceptions

Most misconceptions associated with the formal definition of limit have to do with the ordering of the moves in the game, who's in charge of what move, and what information each person has at the time of making the move. We describe some common misconceptions below.

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Strongly telepathic prover

Spot the error in this:

Consider the limit problem . The proof corresponding to this problem would involve a game between a prover and a skeptic. To show that the limit statement is true, it suffices to exhibit a winning strategy for the prover for the game. The strategy is as follows. Pick . Let's prove that this works.

Specific claim: For any skeptic-picked , if the prover picks such that , then regardless of the that the skeptic picks with , we have .

Proof of claim: We have:

The error is as follows: [SHOW MORE]

Mildly telepathic prover

Spot the error in this:

Consider the limit problem:

We want to show that
For this game, we need to exhibit a winning strategy for the prover. The winning strategy is as follows. The skeptic first chooses . The prover now makes two cases. If the skeptic is planning to pick a rational value of , then the prover chooses the strategy . If the skeptic is planning to choose an irrational value of , then the prover can pick any .
Clearly, the prover's strategy works in both cases, so we have a winning strategy.

Th error is as follows: [SHOW MORE]

You say you want a replay?

Spot the error in this:

Consider the limit problem . Let's think of this in terms of an game. The skeptic begins by picking . The prover chooses . The skeptic now chooses . This value of is within the -distance of . It's now checked that is within -distance of the claimed limit . The prover has thus won the game, and we have established the truth of the limit statement.

The error is as follows: [SHOW MORE]

Playing to lose

Spot the error in this:

Here's an easy proof that . We need to show that the prover has a winning strategy for the game. Let's say the skeptic starts out by picking . The prover then picks . It can now easily be verified that for , , because the function is trapped within . Thus, the prover has succeeded in trapping the function within the $\varepsilon$-interval specified by the skeptic, and hence won the game. The limit statement is therefore true.

The error is as follows: [SHOW MORE]

Conceptual definition and various cases

Formulation of conceptual definition

Below is the conceptual definition of limit. Suppose is a function defined in a neighborhood of the point , except possibly at the point itself. We say that:

if:

  • For every choice of neighborhood of (where the term neighborhood is suitably defined)
  • there exists a choice of neighborhood of (where the term neighborhood is suitably defined) such that
  • for all that are in the chosen neighborhood of
  • is in the chosen neighborhood of .
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Full timed transcript: [SHOW MORE]

Functions of one variable case

The following definitions of neighborhood are good enough to define limits.

  • For points in the interior of the domain, for functions of one variable: We can take an open interval centered at the point. For a point , such an open interval is of the form . Note that if we exclude the point itself, we get .
  • For the point , for functions of one variable: We take intervals of the form , where .
  • For the point , for functions of one variable: We can take interval of the form , where .

We can now list the nine cases of limits, combining finite and infinite possibilities:

Case Definition
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
For every , there exists such that for all satisfying (i.e., ), we have (i.e., ).
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Limit of sequence versus real-sense limit

Recall that the limit of a real-valued function to infinity is defined as follows:

means that:

  • For every
  • there exists (we're thinking of the neighborhood ) such that
  • for all (i.e. )
  • we have (i.e., ).

Suppose now instead that is a function restricted to the natural numbers. We can think of as a sequence, namely the sequence . In that case:

(in words, the sequence converges to ) means that:

  • For every
  • there exists such that
  • for all satisfying ,
  • we have (i.e., ).

The definitions differ both in their second and third line. However, the difference in the second line (the use of a real number versus a natural number to specify the threshold for the trapping interval) is not important, i.e., we could swap these lines between the definitions without changing the sense of either definition. The key difference between the definitions lies in their third lines. In the real-sense limit definition case, we require trapping of the function value close to the claimed limit for all sufficiently large reals whereas the sequence limit definition requires trapping only for all sufficiently large natural numbers.

To understand this distinction, consider the following: if is defined on reals, and it has a real-sense limit, i.e., for some , then it must also be true that . However, it is possible for to have a sequence limit but not have a real-sense limit. For instance, the function has undefined but is zero, because takes the value 0 at all integers.

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Full timed transcript: [SHOW MORE]

Real-valued functions of multiple variables case

We consider the multiple input variables as a vector input variable, as the definition is easier to frame from this perspective.

The correct notion of neighborhood is as follows: for a point , we define the neighborhood parametrized by a positive real number as the open ball of radius centered at , i.e., the set of all points such that the distance from to is less than . This distance is the same as the norm of the difference vector . The norm is sometimes denoted . This open ball is sometimes denoted .

Suppose is a real-valued (i.e., scalar) function of a vector variable . Suppose is a point such that is defined "around" , except possibly at . In other words, there is an open ball centered at such that is defined everywhere on that open ball, except possibly at .

With these preliminaries out of the way, we can define the notion of limit. We say that:

if the following holds:

  • For every
  • there exists such that
  • for all satisfying (i.e., is in a ball of radius centered at but not the point itself -- note that the notation is for the norm, or length, of a vector)
  • we have . Note that and are both scalars, so the here is the usual absolute value function.
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